Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[DiVaio]

We’re getting the results and performances that the players we have turning out for us should be getting. When you have Dier, Davies, Hojbjerg, Emerson/Doherty, Sessegnon/Perisic type players that should be playing for clubs placed 15th-8th in the league and the other 4-5 (Kane, Son, Romero, Bentancur, Kulusevski) should be playing for top 4 clubs, you’re a bit silly if you expect a better outcome than 6th-8th place. Conte’s 100% right yet again and he sees what a lot of people on here can’t grasp and that’s that we have a squad with far too many players that aren’t good enough. We routinely start matches with 4-5 players in our 11 that either aren’t good enough or aren’t suited to play his system to a top 4 level. We have so many players that seriously have no business being anywhere near top 4 level starting 11. It’s at least half our squad!

Dier: Conte really likes him and plays him pretty much every game
Davies: Conte likes him and extended his contract
Hojbjerg: lol
Emerson: For some reason Conte likes him
Perisic: his transfer
Sessegnon: no reason to think Conte doesn't like him

How is this really an argument?

 

[Flobadob]

Dier: Conte really likes him and plays him pretty much every game
Davies: Conte likes him and extended his contract
Hojbjerg: lol
Emerson: For some reason Conte likes him
Perisic: his transfer
Sessegnon: no reason to think Conte doesn't like him

How is this really an argument?

The ratings on the post suggests it’s an argument lol you’re welcome to keep living in a fantasy world where those players are good enough

 

[Trix]

Dier: Conte really likes him and plays him pretty much every game
Davies: Conte likes him and extended his contract
Hojbjerg: lol
Emerson: For some reason Conte likes him
Perisic: his transfer
Sessegnon: no reason to think Conte doesn't like him

How is this really an argument?

There's a huge difference between thinking someone is a good option for a position and thinking they are the best of a bad bunch. Oh and if you think Conte has the authority to extend contracts I don't know what to tell you really.

 

[isaac94]

Dier: Conte really likes him and plays him pretty much every game
Davies: Conte likes him and extended his contract
Hojbjerg: lol
Emerson: For some reason Conte likes him
Perisic: his transfer
Sessegnon: no reason to think Conte doesn't like him

How is this really an argument?

I am not sure Conte likes them all, more labored with most of them, I am pretty sure if he had the funding he desired, he would ship out most of these, as its plain to see they are not good enough to challenge for titles. This is the weakest group of players Conte has worked with in some time.

 

[Spurzinho]

Don't bother, if it doesn't fit the Conte Out narrative it will be ignored, dissected or excused for any number of reasons.

You're starting to sound like one of those weirdo Elon Musk fanboys who just shuts everyone down by asking you if you're as rich as him.

 

[spurs mental]

but to go to a Champions Leage Final what a day that was - going undefeated at home in the League whipping Dortmund Chelsea and Liverpool amongst others I think there are lot of us happy to take the risk

I literally said CL run aside and you choose to highlight it anyway?

I never said the first 4 years of Poch weren't good. I was talking about the last 12. Which you have chosen to ignore.

So, again, have you forgotten the last 12 months (CL run aside) of Poch's reign?

 

[Flobadob]

Watkins ahead of who?

I’m not talking strictly position for position but I’d rather have those 6 than what we put out and I even forget about Cash being far far better than any RB we have too

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

You're starting to sound like one of those weirdo Elon Musk fanboys who just shuts everyone down by asking you if you're as rich as him.

Dier fanboy? Can't take anything you say seriously with that profile pic.

 

[The Doc]

Some good stuff in this thread. A question (not sure if it's the right thread but there is an obvious correlation). Irrespective of whether Conte stays or leaves, can anyone make a case for Levy and the board remaining in situ?

 

[rossdapep]

I think the fact we are having the same two debates we had under end of days Poch, Jose and Conte which are; Is it the manager or the board, Do we want entertaining football or successful means that we keep looking at the problem incorrectly.

I think the issue isn't the manager or their style of football. It's that the fans and the board are simply unwilling to accept that in order to get to whatever it is we think we want, that things have to get worse before they get better, that we are too afraid to go through the painful process of that, we are impatient and want immediate gratification because we think we have suffered enough and we are owed some success now.

The evidence though would suggest that we have ended up making the process last longer, more painful in our desire to rush the process. We also are so scared of going through the painful process that we are too unafraid to let go of the other side of things. We hire Conte yet we are too scared to let go off our transfer policy. We back Poch but we are too afraid because he said it will take years to rebuild so we sack him and hire a manager who says he'll get it done quickly.

At what point do we realise that jumping from one extreme to the next is just delaying success further, that we are foolishly thinking we are wasting time if we stick through a painful period yet when you look at other clubs. Liverpool, seemingly Arsenal. They tolerated the growing pains, they tolerated the shouts from impatient fans and certainly Liverpool have been rewarded. Klopp has had 3 tough periods at Liverpool, when he started, just after their big success and earlier this season. With the latter 2, he was doing significantly worse than Poch was, do we think we'd have kept our nerve and been rewarded for doing so? Do we think our club would have tolerated those first few seasons under Arteta to get to what Arsenal are currently doing, their performances were awful to watch but Arteta stuck to his guns now their performances are superb, you learn most from your rivals.

I've made no secret that I absolutely adore Poch, that I felt he shouldn't have been sacked, that he should have been allowed a down season to recover from the champions league and we go again. That I wanted him back after Jose because I love the romanticism of him being the guy to lead us to the promise land. So it probably wouldn't be that hard for me to get over losing Conte if Poch returned, however I am absolutely adamant that if we for once just stuck with a manager through the hard times and took the risk of backing him despite fears of letting go off our policies and we actually allowed the man to feel safe and trusted in his process then we would get a team that is not only successful but is entertaining in it's own right, maybe not in the style of a Harry or Poch team but in it's own manner. I think us fans are unwilling to tolerate what that would entail though to get there though and it is us who will suffer the consequences in my opinion.

Exceptional post and really hits the heart of it.

I stated before that the club were right to fire Poch, because I think it was irreversible, but that could have been avoided if they backed him better.

The next huge mistake was hiring Jose. The next hiring should have been in line with our philosophy. Progressive coach with younger talents, similar to when we hired Poch.

By hiring Jose, we ended up adding a layer of tarmac over a road full of potholes because the older heads needed moving on, yet stayed, and we added players like Doherty and Hojbjerg who don't fit our philosophy.

The mess of the Nuno appointment only compounded matters as we signed more players that fit one philosophy (Gil, Sarr) and others that fit another (Royal) under a coach who is different completely.

So we are backed into a corner and need to hire someone like Conte.

My initial feeling was that Conte was the wrong choice. Not because I don't think he's a fantastic coach but because I wasn't sure about fit. But then, if the club appoints someone like that then you expect assurances to have been made.

I did start to buy into it and was excited when we hired him as we did get messages that Levy had been pushed back and FP was leading things more. If we then invest in that philosophy we can expect good results.

You're right though. You don't get anywhere fast by consistently changing the way you work.

Choose your strategy, structure it accordingly and stick with it through the hard times. After all the hard times are only there to show you how to overcome obstacles and tweaks that may be needed.

You can't simply say "this isn't working" and rip it up at first sign of trouble.

 

[FinnYid]

"Absolute Dross"

Yet after 60 games, we are only 0.18 ppm off his Inter, Chelsea and Juventus teams.

All three won titles with those PPM's.

But let's blame Conte.

View attachment 120623

Screenshot says no?

 

[Spurzinho]

Dier fanboy? Can't take anything you say seriously with that profile pic.

No. I just think he has an amusingly shaped head.

 

[DiVaio]

I am not sure Conte likes them all, more labored with most of them, I am pretty sure if he had the funding he desired, he would ship out most of these, as its plain to see they are not good enough to challenge for titles. This is the weakest group of players Conte has worked with in some time.

I mean - he still uses them, praises them pretty much in every conference and most of them had basically 0 links with transfers out of Spurs.
He didn't like Ndombele, Gio or Dele he didn't play them and they left the club. Same as Eriksen or Skriniar for some time at Inter, same as Costa at Chelsea and I'm pretty sure there were many other examples.

I don't think anyone here thinks they are good enough to win titles, but certainly they are good enough to play better football and had better results than we had since October

 

[MightySpurs]

it's not an argument, its a statistical fact. You literally cannot argue with me on this.

If's, And's or But's bear no relevance when you're talking about facts. Results are facts and the fact is we are 5th.

To your second point about our next 3 games, of course given our current form things aren't looking good.

That being said, we can win any game if the players decide to show up before we go a goal down.

We are where we are on the table because pool, city, chelsea and united have all underperformed. Not because of Conte.
Instead of us taking advantage of that, we’re now off top 4, and fast sinking.

so many people asking what Conte could do different, as if he’s doing everything right.

he could have tried other formations than 343.
He could have integrated more players when none where injured, instead of only throwing them in when all others are injured.

why should we back this man, when he’s never been for a club longer then 3 years, and most typically 2 years?

his shit tactics doesn’t work in the PL anymore.
He has to adjust- but his stubbornness will ultimately be his failure imo.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Screenshot says no?

Typo * will fix

 

[dk-yid]

I think the fact we are having the same two debates we had under end of days Poch, Jose and Conte which are; Is it the manager or the board, Do we want entertaining football or successful means that we keep looking at the problem incorrectly.

I think the issue isn't the manager or their style of football. It's that the fans and the board are simply unwilling to accept that in order to get to whatever it is we think we want, that things have to get worse before they get better, that we are too afraid to go through the painful process of that, we are impatient and want immediate gratification because we think we have suffered enough and we are owed some success now.

The evidence though would suggest that we have ended up making the process last longer, more painful in our desire to rush the process. We also are so scared of going through the painful process that we are too unafraid to let go of the other side of things. We hire Conte yet we are too scared to let go off our transfer policy. We back Poch but we are too afraid because he said it will take years to rebuild so we sack him and hire a manager who says he'll get it done quickly.

At what point do we realise that jumping from one extreme to the next is just delaying success further, that we are foolishly thinking we are wasting time if we stick through a painful period yet when you look at other clubs. Liverpool, seemingly Arsenal. They tolerated the growing pains, they tolerated the shouts from impatient fans and certainly Liverpool have been rewarded. Klopp has had 3 tough periods at Liverpool, when he started, just after their big success and earlier this season. With the latter 2, he was doing significantly worse than Poch was, do we think we'd have kept our nerve and been rewarded for doing so? Do we think our club would have tolerated those first few seasons under Arteta to get to what Arsenal are currently doing, their performances were awful to watch but Arteta stuck to his guns now their performances are superb, you learn most from your rivals.

I've made no secret that I absolutely adore Poch, that I felt he shouldn't have been sacked, that he should have been allowed a down season to recover from the champions league and we go again. That I wanted him back after Jose because I love the romanticism of him being the guy to lead us to the promise land. So it probably wouldn't be that hard for me to get over losing Conte if Poch returned, however I am absolutely adamant that if we for once just stuck with a manager through the hard times and took the risk of backing him despite fears of letting go off our policies and we actually allowed the man to feel safe and trusted in his process then we would get a team that is not only successful but is entertaining in it's own right, maybe not in the style of a Harry or Poch team but in it's own manner. I think us fans are unwilling to tolerate what that would entail though to get there though and it is us who will suffer the consequences in my opinion.

Sir, a fantastic post. I would call it the post of the year but since we are only two days in that wouldn't do it justice.

 

[Spurzinho]

Honestly, I Iook at the likes of Dier, Davies, Sanchez, Doherty, Royal and think are they actually any better than the likes of Vega, Nethercott, Calderwood, Thatcher from the grim days of the 90s. Genuinely don't think there is much in it.

You've got to be taking the piss?! You can't possibly have been there if you think any of the 90's bunch is in the same league as this lot. I'm not defending the likes of Dier or Sanchez.etc but let's be real.

 

[YB123]

Some good stuff in this thread. A question (not sure if it's the right thread but there is an obvious correlation). Irrespective of whether Conte stays or leaves, can anyone make a case for Levy and the board remaining in situ?

I really dont see how anyone can make a case for them anymore.

 

[FinnYid]

Will he be outplayed by Danny Cowley on saturday? I mean he probably can read how to beat Contes team as much as any manager in the PL, but is League One material sufficient to do so?

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

No. I just think he has an amusingly shaped head.

Dier right now