Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Metalhead]

After having played in a championship team who he helped get promotion at rwb? And today we played a championship team too. Naaah not buying it.

So what's the theory? I'd say that perhaps he doesn't quite trust him to go out and put a 90 minute shift in yet. I really doubt there's any more to it than that.

 

[piedpiper]

So what's the theory? I'd say that perhaps he doesn't quite trust him to go out and put a 90 minute shift in yet. I really doubt there's any more to it than that.

I don't have a theory....I just find it extremely baffling. The kid has 1 career. If he can't get the minutes move him on. Why buy him to sit on the bench and not get a game against such low level opponents.

 

[Ray]

To me, Bissouma is an example of how Conte develops trust in his players. YB was oven-ready for the Prem and we all thought he'd walk straight into the first XI. He struggled to get game time and even since he's been a more regular selection, he struggles a bit in games, as he's still not quite up to speed with AC's system (he's not alone in that, I'm using him as an example as he and Spence are both new recruits).

Conte is pretty much an open book and wears his heart on his sleeve. Everybody knows how he operates. If you sign up to work with him (as his boss, player or member of his coaching staff), you know what to expect and you shouldn't expect him to change. If player x, y or z isn't playing, it's for footballing reasons, not club politics. My onions, obviously.

 

[DanielJohnCosta]

To me, Bissouma is an example of how Conte develops trust in his players. YB was oven-ready for the Prem and we all thought he'd walk straight into the first XI. He struggled to get game time and even since he's been a more regular selection, he struggles a bit in games, as he's still not quite up to speed with AC's system (he's not alone in that, I'm using him as an example as he and Spence are both new recruits).

Conte is pretty much an open book and wears his heart on his sleeve. Everybody knows how he operates. If you sign up to work with him (as his boss, player or member of his coaching staff), you know what to expect and you shouldn't expect him to change. If player x, y or z isn't playing, it's for footballing reasons, not club politics. My onions, obviously.

for me it's probably one of the most disappointing aspects of Conte's reign so far for me, and that's his inability to be getting the best out of each player

 

[allatsea]

?

Sessegnon has gotten plenty of games.

Exactly. Very disappointing he doesn't seem to have trained on. Can't see him being with us next season.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

for me it's probably one of the most disappointing aspects of Conte's reign so far for me, and that's his inability to be getting the best out of each player

It’s almost impossible to have a 100% success rate with all the players in a squad, to expect that is a bit optimistic.

Players and Managers, like people in general, can have personalities or thoughts that either clash or one side takes a while to warm up to or grasps the thoughts of the other.

With Bissouma, Conte has said repeatedly that he loves him as a player and professional but it is taking him some time to adapt to the new tactics and methodology. Slowly but surely he’s growing in confidence

Maybe Spence has the same issues? That would be my best guess based on what we’ve seen already.

One thing I find funny is, we look at a players past and use that as an indication of what they can do for our team but we don’t give Conte the same credit for his past and his success.

 

[DanielJohnCosta]

It’s almost impossible to have a 100% success rate with all the players in a squad, to expect that is a bit optimistic.

Players and Managers, like people in general, can have personalities or thoughts that either clash or one side takes a while to warm up to or grasps the thoughts of the other.

With Bissouma, Conte has said repeatedly that he loves him as a player and professional but it is taking him some time to adapt to the new tactics and methodology. Slowly but surely he’s growing in confidence

Maybe Spence has the same issues? That would be my best guess based on what we’ve seen already.

One thing I find funny is, we look at a players past and use that as an indication of what they can do for our team but we don’t give Conte the same credit for his past and his success.

I understand but it's really hard to find too many players who have improved under him, like really I'm not sure I can find any?

 

[Deleted member 27855]

Conte is a winner. He's not going to leave a lad out for any other reason than he doesn't think he's up to it just yet or at least, he isn't better than the other two boys. All these conspiracy theories about how managers are "trying to send a message to the board" are just that. A man like Conte will do anything to win. He's not going to sacrifice a match just to make a point.

Conte sees him every day. He knows Spence better than you or me. I'd love to see Spence given a chance but I'm a fat office monkey whose greatest football achievement is on a 5-a-side pitch against similarly rotund gentlemen. Conte has spent 40 years at the very highest level of the game. He might just know more than me about the game. That doesn't mean he's always right but, on the balance of probabilities, he'll get more right than us two put together.

I think you're probably right. Spence needs game time and should go out on loan then. Preferably to a team that uses wingbacks.

That doesn't change the fact that our RWB's are an absolute disaster area and currently the biggest hole in our entire squad. Emerson might be a better option than Spence currently but that doesn't mean he's a solid option. He shouldn't be with our club past this season.

 

[purple8]

Ww

Why not? Conte sees him every day in training. What do you know he doesn't?

 

[Timberwolf]

I understand but it's really hard to find too many players who have improved under him, like really I'm not sure I can find any?

I'd say he notably improved Dier and Davies when he arrived and has also got the best out of PEH. Doherty has also played his best football for Spurs by a country mile under Conte. Bentancur and Kulu also both massively improved upon their Juventus form when they arrived and have both been excellent since arriving.

This season there are quite a few players underperforming, though. Son and Bissouma especially are both miles below their best and in recent weeks Dier and PEH have dropped off too. I'd say pretty much everyone else is about 'par' given their ability.

 

[Metalhead]

I don't have a theory....I just find it extremely baffling. The kid has 1 career. If he can't get the minutes move him on. Why buy him to sit on the bench and not get a game against such low level opponents.

He wasn't Conte's choice though. That doesn't mean that he won't play him or is not starting him out of bloody mindedness but he must believe, for whatever reason that he isn't ready to play a full match yet.

 

[A Bit Much]

He wasn't Conte's choice though. That doesn't mean that he won't play him or is not starting him out of bloody mindedness but he must believe, for whatever reason that he isn't ready to play a full match yet.

I see this quite often posted like Conte must always be a rational actor, but why? Conte is a world class manager etc, but it could be that he just hasn't taken a shining to Spence not least because he didn't want him. Conte does have a track record of falling out with players or suddenly deciding they aren't in his plans.

If I were to guess I'd say there's a combination of Conte not giving him as much a chance because he didn't want him originally, and Spence reacting to that either losing confidence/being sullen and not impressing Conte. It ends up a self fulfilling prophecy, where Spence has to get a loan or just leave the club.

I'm not trying to bash Conte btw - he's entitled to not fancy players especially if levy has dropped them on him.

 

[Metalhead]

I see this quite often posted like Conte must always be a rational actor, but why? Conte is a world class manager etc, but it could be that he just hasn't taken a shining to Spence not least because he didn't want him. Conte does have a track record of falling out with players or suddenly deciding they aren't in his plans.

If I were to guess I'd say there's a combination of Conte not giving him as much a chance because he didn't want him originally, and Spence reacting to that either losing confidence/being sullen and not impressing Conte. It ends up a self fulfilling prophecy, where Spence has to get a loan or just leave the club.

I'm not trying to bash Conte btw - he's entitled to not fancy players especially if levy has dropped them on him.

That might very well be the case. I am not dismissing any possibility. What you have described isn't irrational either. Fundamentally, it comes down to trust - can he trust him to put in a shift for him? That can only come from what he sees off the pitch. At some point he has to give him a chance or send him off on loan.

 

[jay2040]

Another game against low grade opposition and Spence doesnt get a game..this is a player who was deemed good enough to play for Forest who got promoted.... naaah Conte can do one. We can't tip toe around him and his ego.

Exactly what will Royal offer that this poor kid couldn't.... how does he develop if he doesn't get games.... what does it do to his confidence?

Poor kid ? He is not Oliver Twist!

 

[jay2040]

After having played in a championship team who he helped get promotion at rwb? And today we played a championship team too. Naaah not buying it.

You get hung up on such a silly notion, who cares really? Bigger issues to resolve to continue winning ways!

 

[jay2040]

So what's the theory? I'd say that perhaps he doesn't quite trust him to go out and put a 90 minute shift in yet. I really doubt there's any more to it than that.

Agree though some folk just want to make a mountain out of a molehill!

 

[arthurgrimsdell]

I'd say he notably improved Dier and Davies when he arrived and has also got the best out of PEH. Doherty has also played his best football for Spurs by a country mile under Conte. Bentancur and Kulu also both massively improved upon their Juventus form when they arrived and have both been excellent since arriving.

This season there are quite a few players underperforming, though. Son and Bissouma especially are both miles below their best and in recent weeks Dier and PEH have dropped off too. I'd say pretty much everyone else is about 'par' given their ability.

I'm not sure I agree with your examples. Dier improved, but this could be as much about finding his feet after years of injury and illness issues as coaching. Davies is and always has been, in my opinion, a much better left sided centre back than a left back. PEH improved after playing with Bentancur, which to my eye was because Bentancur has the ability to receive a poor pass in a tight situation and come away with the ball. Thus Hojbjerg gained in confidence. Doherty was always a wing back and completely lost confidence under Jose and Nuno because he was aasked to perform roles alien to him. I don't think he is even now as good a wing back as he was at Wolves. Bentancur and Deki hit the ground running and were immediate successes, so I don't think Conte's coaching was initially a major factor for either.
One thing I have noticed in the last couple of games is an apparent complete volte face in Conte's attitude to young players being given game time. After the resumption when he had worked with most of them for a month or so, there was no change in who he was picking. Then suddenly, Sarr, Skipp, Gil, Spence, White and Devine are all given minutes. I accept that injuries and giving players a rest are a factor, but they don't explain the sudden inclusion of so many young players. I was shouting out for such players to be given even a couple of minutes at the end of games earlier in the season, then all of a sudden half a dozen arrive like London buses. It's almost as if someone has told Conte to get his act together and start developing the assets at his disposal.

 

[piedpiper]

Poor kid ? He is not Oliver Twist!

Poor kid as in he has 1 career....but let's leave it there we have divergent views on this.

 

[djhotspur]

He just looks so lazy. He had plenty of time to impress and he went out there and ambled around. He worked with these kids over the World Cup break and Spence clearly did not impress

 

[longtimespur]

I'm not sure I agree with your examples. Dier improved, but this could be as much about finding his feet after years of injury and illness issues as coaching. Davies is and always has been, in my opinion, a much better left sided centre back than a left back. PEH improved after playing with Bentancur, which to my eye was because Bentancur has the ability to receive a poor pass in a tight situation and come away with the ball. Thus Hojbjerg gained in confidence. Doherty was always a wing back and completely lost confidence under Jose and Nuno because he was aasked to perform roles alien to him. I don't think he is even now as good a wing back as he was at Wolves. Bentancur and Deki hit the ground running and were immediate successes, so I don't think Conte's coaching was initially a major factor for either.
One thing I have noticed in the last couple of games is an apparent complete volte face in Conte's attitude to young players being given game time. After the resumption when he had worked with most of them for a month or so, there was no change in who he was picking. Then suddenly, Sarr, Skipp, Gil, Spence, White and Devine are all given minutes. I accept that injuries and giving players a rest are a factor, but they don't explain the sudden inclusion of so many young players. I was shouting out for such players to be given even a couple of minutes at the end of games earlier in the season, then all of a sudden half a dozen arrive like London buses. It's almost as if someone has told Conte to get his act together and start developing the assets at his disposal.

So basically any reason bar Conte. ??