Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Harrier]

It’s literally brought up all the time how he’s on £15 million a season and therefore is expected to be delivering much much more.

Of course it’s brought up all the time as it’s a metric of the quality of the personnel you’re employing.

Wages are mentioned regularly when you’re talking about bringing in elite players.

Irrespective of results, you’d have to say the in-game management, tactics, team selections etc. aren’t inline with a manager being paid that level of remuneration, so it’s an obvious stick to beat him with.

 

[The Doc]

But there's no point talking about number of losses without number of wins and where we are in the table. Bottom line is we are 4th and you can't sack a manager for that. I could understand if we had a squad that should challenge for a title but we don't. In fact we're still overachieving with the squad we have. We sacked Jose because 4th was out of reach and we were at risk of failing to qualify for Europe altogether. That isn't the case at this time at least so I don't see how we can sack the manager. Top 4 is the best we can hope for with this squad and that in itself is overachieving. As long as we still have that in site I can't see any reason to change manager. If it slips away then fair enough.

Yes. I’d love to know where folk think we should be. Top? 2nd? 3rd? We have a wc forward. The rest of the squad is top 6 at best. Massively overachieved last year as we were nowhere near CL levels. I don’t want to hear about style of play in response to this. Just tell me where you think we should be based on our squad relative to other teams above and around us.

 

[RuskyM]

Yes. I’d love to know where folk think we should be. Top? 2nd? 3rd? We have a wc forward. The rest of the squad is top 6 at best. Massively overachieved last year as we were nowhere near CL levels. I don’t want to hear about style of play in response to this. Just tell me where you think we should be based on our squad relative to other teams above and around us.

Taking form out of the equation: we've got a CB that just won the World Cup, a keeper who's won the World Cup, one of the best attackers in the world of the past few years, Brazil's #9, two players who were revelations last year, a DM everyone was clamouring for when he was at Brighton and we've just signed one of Europe's most touted wing backs. Everyone was praising Dier and Hojbjerg last season, and insisted Perisic was a great addition. Sarr and Skipp have proven themselves as good prospects and Emerson's turn has been staggering. The squad really isn't as bad as people insist it is.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Of course it’s brought up all the time as it’s a metric of the quality of the personnel you’re employing.

Wages are mentioned regularly when you’re talking about bringing in elite players.

Irrespective of results, you’d have to say the in-game management, tactics, team selections etc. aren’t inline with a manager being paid that level of remuneration, so it’s an obvious stick to beat him with.

Ill reply to your post and @Styopa in one go it makes things a bit easier.

If you’re paid X amount of money you’re expected to do a specific job, but the performance level that’s expected is not a guaranteed metric. Things in football and life have their ups and downs.

The reason why you’re paid x amount is based on your experience and past achievements, and your intrinsic value at the time of the company hiring you. It is not a gaurantee that you’ll deliver exactly what you’ve delivered in the past at your previous employers.

Just as some silly anecdotal evidence, my previous company employed a fairly older man as the branch manager. He was literally the most useless employee in the branch, but comfortably earned 4x what I was earning. This was based solely on his experience in the market and NOT the performance he was delivering on a day to day basis. The hard work was done by the rest of us in the team, all he had to do was submit some reports here and there (which he couldn’t even do without assistance) and the owners of the company were happy.

As long you don’t perform below the contractually obligated levels, you’re getting paid what you’re worth.

To your last paragraph, I actually agree with that part. I just prefer to see it separated from his salary. He can be scrutinised for not delivering what we expect him too, but his salary is an irrelevant metric in this regard.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

It wasn't twelve months, though. More like a bad six months, considering the gap between the end of the 18/19 season and the start of 19/20. It was only from match 27 of 18/19 that the wheels came off.

It was a bad 9 months: 23rd Feb - 19th Nov.

After our league form collapsed during the 2018-19 season (no coincidentally after Dembele left), Poch had the summer to rectify any issues with tactics / form / squad weaknesses etc., so we really can't consider that dead time. We started our 2019-20 PL campaign the same way we ended 2018-19, so clearly the closed season wasn't used effectively.

 

[Rosco1984]

Taking form out of the equation: we've got a CB that just won the World Cup, a keeper who's won the World Cup, one of the best attackers in the world of the past few years, Brazil's #9, two players who were revelations last year, a DM everyone was clamouring for when he was at Brighton and we've just signed one of Europe's most touted wing backs. Everyone was praising Dier and Hojbjerg last season, and insisted Perisic was a great addition. Sarr and Skipp have proven themselves as good prospects and Emerson's turn has been staggering. The squad really isn't as bad as people insist it is.

Its significantly better than Bentaleb and Mason in midfield with Soldado as our starting number 9 at the start of the season that poch inherited and produced drastically better football with.

 

[The Doc]

Taking form out of the equation: we've got a CB that just won the World Cup, a keeper who's won the World Cup, one of the best attackers in the world of the past few years, Brazil's #9, two players who were revelations last year, a DM everyone was clamouring for when he was at Brighton and we've just signed one of Europe's most touted wing backs. Everyone was praising Dier and Hojbjerg last season, and insisted Perisic was a great addition. Sarr and Skipp have proven themselves as good prospects and Emerson's turn has been staggering. The squad really isn't as bad as people insist it is.

But. He was playing with Messi. I mean. You’ve got a chance haven’t you? Ditto Hugo. Find it a stretch to say France won the wc because of him. We picked up Brazil’s number 9 from a team that almost got relegated. How do you think we would get on with him playing instead of Kane? I could go on. Do love Bissouma tho. Not sure what has happened there. I just don’t think we’re very good. Not terrible but not great either. Like Tottenham.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Taking form out of the equation: we've got a CB that just won the World Cup, a keeper who's won the World Cup, one of the best attackers in the world of the past few years, Brazil's #9, two players who were revelations last year, a DM everyone was clamouring for when he was at Brighton and we've just signed one of Europe's most touted wing backs. Everyone was praising Dier and Hojbjerg last season, and insisted Perisic was a great addition. Sarr and Skipp have proven themselves as good prospects and Emerson's turn has been staggering. The squad really isn't as bad as people insist it is.

How many of those players that you’ve mentioned would our rivals or the elite clubs of Europe come in for?

I would bet only Kane, Son and Romero would get offers from the elite teams.

This goes to show we’re competing above our level with sub par personnel.

Under Poch, you could probably say around 8 players would get big offers, and even then we missed out on winning something.

The league has gotten much more competitive since then and we’ve basically regressed in this regard.

 

[mil1lion]

Strong hints coming through that everything rests on Michael Caine's shoulders. We shall see.

Trix reveals his true identity

My name is Michael Paine and I am a nosey neighbour. Daniel Levy is not happy with Antonio Conte and is ready to sack him if they lose to Milan. Not a lot of people know that I know that but I do.

 

[Albertbarich]

All these guesses about a Michael Caine mention and all I can think is that he is a nosey neighbour.


If you know you know...

(Yes I'm an uncultured idiot)

 

[Albertbarich]

Trix reveals his true identity

My name is Michael Paine and I am a nosey neighbour. Daniel Levy is not happy with Antonio Conte and is ready to sack him if they lose to Milan. Not a lot of people know that I know that but I do.

Beat me to it

 

[Tucker]

But. He was playing with Messi. I mean. You’ve got a chance haven’t you? Ditto Hugo. Find it a stretch to say France won the wc because of him. We picked up Brazil’s number 9 from a team that almost got relegated. How do you think we would get on with him playing instead of Kane? I could go on. Do love Bissouma tho. Not sure what has happened there. I just don’t think we’re very good. Not terrible but not great either. Like Tottenham.

Are you suggesting Romero and Lloris were passengers in their World Cup winning teams?

That’s laughable. Romero has a great World Cup. Lloris was the fucking CAPTAIN!

Richarlison was the reason Everton didn’t go down.

Jesus. The lengths some people go to to run down our players.

 

[Dougal]

Strong hints coming through that everything rests on Michael Caine's shoulders. We shall see.

This is clearly a reference to Levy and the players.

 

[Harrier]

Ill reply to your post and @Styopa in one go it makes things a bit easier.

If you’re paid X amount of money you’re expected to do a specific job, but the performance level that’s expected is not a guaranteed metric. Things in football and life have their ups and downs.

The reason why you’re paid x amount is based on your experience and past achievements, and your intrinsic value at the time of the company hiring you. It is not a gaurantee that you’ll deliver exactly what you’ve delivered in the past at your previous employers.

Just as some silly anecdotal evidence, my previous company employed a fairly older man as the branch manager. He was literally the most useless employee in the branch, but comfortably earned 4x what I was earning. This was based solely on his experience in the market and NOT the performance he was delivering on a day to day basis. The hard work was done by the rest of us in the team, all he had to do was submit some reports here and there (which he couldn’t even do without assistance) and the owners of the company were happy.

As long you don’t perform below the contractually obligated levels, you’re getting paid what you’re worth.

To your last paragraph, I actually agree with that part. I just prefer to see it separated from his salary. He can be scrutinised for not delivering what we expect him too, but his salary is an irrelevant metric in this regard.

I’m not sure the analogy of your employer is a good one as that just smacks of piss poor recruitment - seen it many times myself.

Using a football analogy, if we spent £150m and £400k per week (day dreaming I know ) on bringing in an elite striker, and he only scored 1 in 4, then it’s inevitable the financial metrics get mentioned. Look how many times the rumoured £200k per week got thrown at N’Dombele?!

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Are you suggesting Romero and Lloris were passengers in their World Cup winning teams?

That’s laughable. Romero has a great World Cup. Lloris was the fucking CAPTAIN!

Richarlison was the reason Everton didn’t go down.

Jesus. The lengths some people go to to run down our players.

Lloris is our captain when fit, have you seen how badly he’s performed for us this season? That’s not a performance metric, more of a leadership and interpersonal metric than anything else.

Romero did have an incredible World Cup though, he was the best CB IMO.

Even if you were right about all 3 players, it’s the entire squad as a whole that is vastly inferior in regards to our rivals, that’s the point he’s trying to make.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

It’s literally brought up all the time how he’s on £15 million a season and therefore is expected to be delivering much much more.

Well those people struggle with the concept of managers good, bad or ugly having good players to work with

Jose/Conte have managed to keep us around the CL places despite our lack of quality the last few years

Our ultimate failure year in year out isn’t due to our managers. They’re not all bad, Infact most were good. Some were/are brilliant - love or hate the football

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I’m not sure the analogy of your employer is a good one as that just smacks of piss poor recruitment - seen it many times myself.

Using a football analogy, if we spent £150m and £400k per week (day dreaming I know ) on bringing in an elite striker, and he only scored 1 in 4, then it’s inevitable the financial metrics get mentioned. Look how many times the rumoured £200k per week got thrown at N’Dombele?!

The analogy was just to show that experience = amount offered in a contract vs you will achieve a, b and c or you’re not getting paid £15 million.

You’re 100% right in terms of it being brought up, but that doesn’t make it a relevant metric too me. It’s very lazy. This is just my opinion ofcourse and I know that won’t really change anything. It will always be brought up.

Like I said in an earlier post, Coutinho cost Barcelona £150+ million and probably around £350k per week in wages, and he was useless. He got paid that much because that was his value to Liverpool, and you obviously have to offer a higher wage to entice players/managers to make the move anyway.

There is always that element of risk involved.

 

[Albertbarich]

Depending on the system we play our squad is a keeper, one or two defenders and a creative midfielder away from being excellent.

Lloris will need replacing. And Romero needs a partner or maybe two if still three at the back along with a playmaker but we're not far off.

Thing is Conte wouldn't want the playmaker if he stays so that's only two defenders and a keeper.

Two good centre backs would transform this team for Conte, not sure the football would improve though.

 

[The Doc]

Are you suggesting Romero and Lloris were passengers in their World Cup winning teams?

That’s laughable. Romero has a great World Cup. Lloris was the fucking CAPTAIN!

Richarlison was the reason Everton didn’t go down.

Jesus. The lengths some people go to to run down our players.

Hugo has been a problem for several years now. You think Argentina win the wc without Messi? Or was it down to Romero? Answer the question posed re: Richarlison. Please.

 

[YB123]

Didn't we sack Poch because Kane went to DL?

Not having that at all. Poch and Kane both stated after and to this day they still talk and have a great relationship