Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Rosco1984]

How many of those players that you’ve mentioned would our rivals or the elite clubs of Europe come in for?

I would bet only Kane, Son and Romero would get offers from the elite teams.

This goes to show we’re competing above our level with sub par personnel.

Under Poch, you could probably say around 8 players would get big offers, and even then we missed out on winning something.

The league has gotten much more competitive since then and we’ve basically regressed in this regard.

Not when he joined they wouldn't have. But after 2 seasons rose and walker went from being blamed for everything to being the best wingbacks in the league. Dembele went from being a makeshift winger to a world class cm. Kane became Kane, Dele become the best young talent in the league. Thats what good managers do.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Not when he joined they wouldn't have. But after 2 seasons rose and walker went from being blamed for everything to being the best wingbacks in the league. Dembele went from being a makeshift winger to a world class cm. Kane became Kane, Dele become the best young talent in the league. Thats what good managers do.

“That’s what good managers do”

So by your logic we should wait for Conte to have 2 full seasons with all our new recruits under him before we make a judgement?

That’s not happening, people are already saying he’s a bad coach because look at how Richy, Bissouma, Perisic, Lenglet and co are performing under him.

Conveniently forgetting that Bentancur and Kulu were benchwarmers for Juventus and made an immediate impact under Conte. He didn’t need 2 seasons to turn their form around.

 

[rossdapep]

This is all rather sad

 

[DiVaio]

So basically you have zero evidence he wanted Lenglet which is what you stated initially. We got Lenglet in all likelihood because he was cheap. But I very much doubt conte wanted Lenglet off all players. Same way Rodon wasn't a Jose choice. Same shit different manager.

we are still fourth in goals scored regardless of the drop off so we are scoring at a rate to win games however dull it is. We however can't defend you save our lives.

conte will go but the same problems will persist at a club which chooses the cheap options

I didn't say anything about Rodon, but it only proves my point? Yes, he was club choice and not Jose choice. And he's the complete opposite of Lenglet. Just look at the type of signings Spurs made in last few years and Conte was making in his previous clubs. And where Lenglet fits more? Is Fabrizio Romano saying Conte was pushing for him some evidence or not?

And we will soon be 5th becuase Brighton scored 3 goals less than us and they have 3 games in hand. Our expected goals in comparison to last season dropped by 0,53. Our expected goals against in comparison to last season rose by 0,21. Since coming from World Cup break we have 0 goal difference and basically 0 in expected goals difference. Same amount of goals scored as Aston Villa with one game in hand and one goals scored more than Brentford who played 3 games less. Do you really think it's the defence that is bigger problem right now?

 

[Rosco1984]

“That’s what good managers do”

So by your logic we should wait for Conte to have 2 full seasons with all our new recruits under him before we make a judgement?

That’s not happening, people are already saying he’s a bad coach because look at how Richy, Bissouma, Perisic, Lenglet and co are performing under him.

Conveniently forgetting that Bentancur and Kulu were benchwarmers for Juventus and made an immediate impact under Conte. He didn’t need 2 seasons to turn their form around.

by my logic Poch instantly caused improvement in the players playing under him not a short spike of 3 months followed by a long painful season of players becoming worse.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

by my logic Poch instantly caused improvement in the players playing under him not a short spike of 3 months followed by a long painful season of players becoming worse.

You’re very good at moving those goal posts aren’t you

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I didn't say anything about Rodon, but it only proves my point? Yes, he was club choice and not Jose choice. And he's the complete opposite of Lenglet. Just look at the type of signings Spurs made in last few years and Conte was making in his previous clubs. And where Lenglet fits more? Is Fabrizio Romano saying Conte was pushing for him some evidence or not?

And we will soon be 5th becuase Brighton scored 3 goals less than us and they have 3 games in hand. Our expected goals in comparison to last season dropped by 0,53. Our expected goals against in comparison to last season rose by 0,21. Since coming from World Cup break we have 0 goal difference and basically 0 in expected goals difference. Same amount of goals scored as Aston Villa with one game in hand and one goals scored more than Brentford who played 3 games less. Do you really think it's the defence that is bigger problem right now?

Ooooof xG is real fighting words right there this is about to get juicy

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

If Conte has been told he is toast if we get knocked out, why would he bother to even entertain the game? How is that sustainable? What if he beats Milan then loses to Nottingham Forest on the weekend and we drop out of the top 4?

It’s such a reactive way of thinking/acting. Although the last time we tried to be proactive rather than reactive, we spent 3 months searching for a new manager and still panic appointed Nuno.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

If Conte has been told he is toast if we get knocked out, why would he bother to even entertain the game? How is that sustainable? What if he beats Milan then loses to Nottingham Forest on the weekend and we drop out of the top 4?

It’s such a reactive way of thinking/acting. Although the last time we tried to be proactive rather than reactive, we spent 3 months searching for a new manager and still panic appointed Nuno.

This is Levy we’re talking about, most of what he does on the footballing side of things defies logic.

It would make more sense if it hinges on our top 4 chances rather than a single game against Milan. Even if we beat them, it’s not like we’re going to win the CL anyway.

 

[Rosco1984]

You’re very good at moving those goal posts aren’t you

your good at making up goalposts that don't exist.

 

[The Doc]

These convos are pretty much copy and paste (just sub Poch or any predecessor for Conte). Ah. Fuck it man. Whatever. We’ll all still be here when the next game comes around.

 

[DiVaio]

Well those people struggle with the concept of managers good, bad or ugly having good players to work with

Jose/Conte have managed to keep us around the CL places despite our lack of quality the last few years

Our ultimate failure year in year out isn’t due to our managers. They’re not all bad, Infact most were good. Some were/are brilliant - love or hate the football

In what world Jose has managed to keep us around the CL places?

 

[TOLBINY]

We will beat Milan and beat Forest, because that is who we are, infuriatingly inconsistent. I then expect us to lose at Southampton and Everton.

 

[Ginola+Tonic]

Poch in by Friday then

 

[spursfan77]

If we get knocked out by Milan this week I struggle to see us actually pulling the trigger on Conte when we're still sitting in the top 4 (even though I doubt we'll stay there long). Would we really pay him off when there's less than 3 months of the season left?

Like, getting knocked out of both cups in a week would be very disappointing, but if it was clear Conte was leaving in the summer, why not just bite the bullet in Jan rather than limping along with a zombie manager? And conversely, now we've stuck with him until March maybe better just to let him ride the season out and start fresh in the summer?

Only reason it would make sense is if the board have suddenly decided they don't think Conte has what it takes to get us top 4 anymore and would rather pay him off and gamble on a new (old?) manager bounce with Poch to give us a boost over the run in.

If it's true it would feel quite messy and ill-thought through, so would make perfect sense as that's how we tend to operate.

Agree. I don’t think he’ll be gone until the summer. If not the summer we’ll wait for him to fuck up the league campaign and then fire the bullet after the horse has bolted. Let’s remember though there is still a lot of football to be played and if we are down to one game a week soon then those are the conditions Conte usually excels in. So I don’t think top four is beyond us at all.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

your good at making up goalposts that don't exist.

Your original reply was that after 2 seasons those players were coveted but not when Poch signed up for the job.

My response was that by that logic, we should give Conte 2 seasons with the new players before we judge his performance (exactly what you did in your reply)

Then you replied that Poch got them going in a short space of time and not for only 3 months which I’m assuming was a stab at my comments on Conte and Kulu + Bentancur. Just BTW, bentancur has been class this season when he hasn’t been injured. He’s literally kept the team ticking over when he’s in the squad. So once again, you’re wrong.

And yet I’m making up goal posts you’re blinded by bias

 

[Stamford]

I didn't say anything about Rodon, but it only proves my point? Yes, he was club choice and not Jose choice. And he's the complete opposite of Lenglet. Just look at the type of signings Spurs made in last few years and Conte was making in his previous clubs. And where Lenglet fits more? Is Fabrizio Romano saying Conte was pushing for him some evidence or not?

And we will soon be 5th becuase Brighton scored 3 goals less than us and they have 3 games in hand. Our expected goals in comparison to last season dropped by 0,53. Our expected goals against in comparison to last season rose by 0,21. Since coming from World Cup break we have 0 goal difference and basically 0 in expected goals difference. Same amount of goals scored as Aston Villa with one game in hand and one goals scored more than Brentford who played 3 games less. Do you really think it's the defence that is bigger problem right now?

It doesnt prove your point because Lenglet and Rodon both have one thing in common they're an opportunity. Swansea in financial mess and we had recently appointed a director. Lenglet a loan from a club again in a financial mess. If we were serious we would have bought a proper CB and I am sure Conte/Jose or any other manager would have signed someone better if they could. Its irrelevant that their profile is different - the spurs mantra is the same and hasnt changed and wont change after Conte. Blaming opportune signings on Conte is just disingenuous.

I think the defence and attack are the problem but the defence is the basis of everything. That was my point.

 

[Trix]

Depending on the system we play our squad is a keeper, one or two defenders and a creative midfielder away from being excellent.

Lloris will need replacing. And Romero needs a partner or maybe two if still three at the back along with a playmaker but we're not far off.

Thing is Conte wouldn't want the playmaker if he stays so that's only two defenders and a keeper.

Two good centre backs would transform this team for Conte, not sure the football would improve though.

Couldn't agree more. That said it is an all or nothing philosophy. Without having all the pieces his system falls short and is failing. I know I keep harping on about it but buying that other real quality CB we definitely had the money for, has probably cost us the CL next season. It meant barring catastrophic injuries and even with rotating we never had to see Dier and Sanchez line up together again and could have really transformed us.

 

[Styopa]

The analogy was just to show that experience = amount offered in a contract vs you will achieve a, b and c or you’re not getting paid £15 million.

You’re 100% right in terms of it being brought up, but that doesn’t make it a relevant metric too me. It’s very lazy. This is just my opinion ofcourse and I know that won’t really change anything. It will always be brought up.

Like I said in an earlier post, Coutinho cost Barcelona £150+ million and probably around £350k per week in wages, and he was useless. He got paid that much because that was his value to Liverpool, and you obviously have to offer a higher wage to entice players/managers to make the move anyway.

There is always that element of risk involved.

You are right; risk is always involved, but the idea of hiring Conte was to mitigate that risk. That's why he costs so much. Barca also thought they were getting close to a sure thing with Coutinho. That's why they paid so much. When it didn't work out, he was considered an expensive flop.

Look at it another way: if I pay 300 quid for dinner, but it's no better than next door, which is charging 30 quid, then I will question the value for money.

If I book a luxury hotel costing several thousands of pounds, but it turns out to be no better than the hotel next door charging a few hundred, I will question the value for money.

If I buy a car that costs me fifty thousand pounds, I will expect a bit more than one which costs me ten thousand pounds.

If I pay nearly a hundred quid for a ticket to watch Spurs, I expect a premium-level experience. However, if I pay a tenner to watch the local amateurs play, my expectations won't be anywhere near as high.

There are no guarantees, but I don't think you can separate cost and value as you suggest.

 

[14/04/91]

If we get knocked out by Milan this week I struggle to see us actually pulling the trigger on Conte when we're still sitting in the top 4 (even though I doubt we'll stay there long). Would we really pay him off when there's less than 3 months of the season left?

Like, getting knocked out of both cups in a week would be very disappointing, but if it was clear Conte was leaving in the summer, why not just bite the bullet in Jan rather than limping along with a zombie manager? And conversely, now we've stuck with him until March maybe better just to let him ride the season out and start fresh in the summer?

Only reason it would make sense is if the board have suddenly decided they don't think Conte has what it takes to get us top 4 anymore and would rather pay him off and gamble on a new (old?) manager bounce with Poch to give us a boost over the run in.

If it's true it would feel quite messy and ill-thought through, so would make perfect sense as that's how we tend to operate.

Sadly your last sentence is absolutely spot on. And you didn't even mention backing Conte with a £40m wing-back, when the next manager is highly unlikely to play that system.