experience and maturity.

[philip]

Our biggest problem last year was individual mistakes and decisions which cost us goals and ultimately games.

For me this came down to a lack of experience and maturity. The likes of Mason and Bentaleb and even Lamela and Eriksen are excellent but they are all young and likely to make mistakes.

Any ManU, Liverpool or Man City fan will tell you how their team looks more settled and assured when Carrick, Gerrard or Lampard are in the team.

In my opinion and those of most if not all football commentators, it was Esteban Cambiasso who was the pivotal reason Leicester managed their great escape from relegation.

It looks like Milner is going to Liverpool. This is the sort of experienced mature player that can and does settle a team down. The type of player that others look to for guidence and who can make a huge difference to the team.

I appreciate that Pochettino wants to build a team that can grow together. Having some experience in there as well is, imo, vital.

 

[Shea]

I think everyone recognises our need for some experience

It has been discussed several times - the benefits our previous scouts had from the likes of Parker, Gallas, Davids and Naybet

Talented youngsters need a leader, someone to pull them together. Some one who has been there and done that and can teach them the ropes, pass on the winning mentality and inspire the belief and confidence young players need when things are not going their way

What I will say is this young squad already has a great fighting spirit - in truth we rarely played well last year but we were still able to grind out results, gain a lot of points from losing positions and even perform well against some of the bigger teams in the game

These players aren't freely available or easy to find - who would you suggest? I've been thinking we need such a player in the middle of the park to organise the troops, protect the defense and get the whole team ticking. I don't know who such a player would be though

Carrick? Would Man U sell? would he want to come back?
Older players from great European teams who might be of an age where they move down a level? Xabi Alonso is 33 for example - I can't see him leaving Bayern while he's still playing for them and if he did leave he'd probably not come to us, same goes for Schweinstieger - now 30 and could possibly leave Bayern but again bigger clubs would want him

I'm sure there are players out there - in fact I'm sure Fazio was meant to be such a player at the back. It's not that easy to find the right player who will be willing to come to us. I'd love another Davids or Naybet

 

[Rout-Ledge]

We should always be on the look out for an experienced head. Particularly one from the 'formerly world class' category.

Cambiasso last summer would've been worth going for from our perspective, never mind Leicester's.

 

[mill]

We should always be on the look out for an experienced head. Particularly one from the 'formerly world class' category.

Cambiasso last summer would've been worth going for from our perspective, never mind Leicester's.

Yeah I'm being captain hindsight but I think cambiasso would have been a much better signing than stambouli, jj said the club turned their nose up at him, 'legs are gone' IIRC, then signed stambouli, who doesn't appear to have much in the way of legs anyway

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Yeah I'm being captain hindsight but I think cambiasso would have been a much better signing than stambouli, jj said the club turned their nose up at him, 'legs are gone' IIRC, then signed stambouli, who doesn't appear to have much in the way of legs anyway

Haha, seems absurd in retrospect.

I don't trust any ITK for a definite account of what's going on at the club, but Cambiasso over Stambouli is a pretty obvious choice from where I'm sitting.

 

[cliff jones]

i think youre first point is very important, in that we have too many who lose possession when the fullbbacks are way up the pitch leading to a large number of breakaway goals against us. then we let too many in through poor marking and anticipation, headed goals by pelle, benteke and good chances for hull which they managed to spurn spring from recent memory. indeed the cup final turned on such carelessness. not sure i agree cambiasso would have made much of a difference though.

 

[longtimespur]

This is why I'd like Scneiderlin signed for us.

 

[mill]

i think youre first point is very important, in that we have too many who lose possession when the fullbbacks are way up the pitch leading to a large number of breakaway goals against us. then we let too many in through poor marking and anticipation, headed goals by pelle, benteke and good chances for hull which they managed to spurn spring from recent memory. indeed the cup final turned on such carelessness. not sure i agree cambiasso would have made much of a difference though.

With cambiasso it's the off pitch stuff as much as the on pitch, he'd teach Bentaleb how to play his role. I can't see how it'd be possible for cambiasso to have made less of a difference than stambouli tbh

 

[nicdic]

Our biggest problem last year was individual mistakes and decisions which cost us goals and ultimately games.

For me this came down to a lack of experience and maturity. The likes of Mason and Bentaleb and even Lamela and Eriksen are excellent but they are all young and likely to make mistakes.

Any ManU, Liverpool or Man City fan will tell you how their team looks more settled and assured when Carrick, Gerrard or Lampard are in the team.

In my opinion and those of most if not all football commentators, it was Esteban Cambiasso who was the pivotal reason Leicester managed their great escape from relegation.

It looks like Milner is going to Liverpool. This is the sort of experienced mature player that can and does settle a team down. The type of player that others look to for guidence and who can make a huge difference to the team.

I appreciate that Pochettino wants to build a team that can grow together. Having some experience in there as well is, imo, vital.

I disagree, almost completely.

First, I don't think our biggest problem was individual mistakes and decisions.

Second, I don't think the reason for the individual mistakes was a lack of experience as the young players you listed weren't the most obvious culprits. The irony being that it was the more experienced members of the squad (Fazio, Vertonghen, Soldado, Paulinho, Kaboul, etc.) that stand out as being the chief culprits, not the young guys.

Carrick, Gerrard, and to a lesser extent Lampard make a big difference because they are good players, that's the key. It's not just experience.

I'm happy to add experience if it's because we're adding a good player, the right right player, who happens to have experience. I'm not sure it needs to be the thing we're looking for.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Carrick, Gerrard, and to a lesser extent Lampard make a big difference because they are good players, that's the key. It's not just experience.

I'm happy to add experience if it's because we're adding a good player, the right right player, who happens to have experience. I'm not sure it needs to be the thing we're looking for.

I think it was implied that the experienced player/players in question have to be good.

Players like Soldado, Fazio and Kaboul have good experience in top leagues, but very limited international experience and not many medals to show for that experience either.

The reason players like Cambiasso (and Edgar Davids for us in the past) can make a difference is because they know what it takes to win the biggest trophies in football, and have the quality to back that up (though maybe not the legs any more).

Why is Lampard 'to a lesser extent', out of interest?

 

[Blake Griffin]

experience is overrated. signing some old duck to tell our younger better players about what they won two decades ago won't achieve anything.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

experience is overrated.

There's a reason why our (arguably) most successful premier league manager insisted on some experienced heads in the team...

 

[Blake Griffin]

There's a reason why our (arguably) most successful premier league manager insisted on some experienced heads in the team...

i don't remember tim playing many experienced heads to be honest.

 

[St José Dominguez]

Cambiasso wasn't a success at Leicester because he has experience it's because he's a fantastic footballer. No matter what age he was he would have been the best midfielder at their club.

I'm not convinced at all that our main issue is a lack of experience. Our main problems are the balance of the team is wrong, we have a far too open centre and lack of cover for defence. The formation doesn't suit the current crop and some players simply either aren't playing well enough or aren't good enough.

I'm both against this idea we're going to have a top class side made up of academy players or we're going to improve by putting "experienced" players in with them.
What we need is better players, more suitable players in terms of the formation and style we are playing.

I don't care if these players are from Enfield or Estonia, is 18 or 38. I want to see us improve and be the best we can be.

 

[nicdic]

I think it was implied that the experienced player/players in question have to be good.

Players like Soldado, Fazio and Kaboul have good experience in top leagues, but very limited international experience and not many medals to show for that experience either.

The reason players like Cambiasso (and Edgar Davids for us in the past) can make a difference is because they know what it takes to win the biggest trophies in football, and have the quality to back that up (though maybe not the legs any more).

Why is Lampard 'to a lesser extent', out of interest?

Purely because I'm not really sure of the impact Lampard had this season on City. I didn't watch enough of City to know.

 

[philip]

I think everyone recognises our need for some experience

It has been discussed several times - the benefits our previous scouts had from the likes of Parker, Gallas, Davids and Naybet

Talented youngsters need a leader, someone to pull them together. Some one who has been there and done that and can teach them the ropes, pass on the winning mentality and inspire the belief and confidence young players need when things are not going their way

What I will say is this young squad already has a great fighting spirit - in truth we rarely played well last year but we were still able to grind out results, gain a lot of points from losing positions and even perform well against some of the bigger teams in the game

These players aren't freely available or easy to find - who would you suggest? I've been thinking we need such a player in the middle of the park to organise the troops, protect the defense and get the whole team ticking. I don't know who such a player would be though

Carrick? Would Man U sell? would he want to come back?
Older players from great European teams who might be of an age where they move down a level? Xabi Alonso is 33 for example - I can't see him leaving Bayern while he's still playing for them and if he did leave he'd probably not come to us, same goes for Schweinstieger - now 30 and could possibly leave Bayern but again bigger clubs would want him

I'm sure there are players out there - in fact I'm sure Fazio was meant to be such a player at the back. It's not that easy to find the right player who will be willing to come to us. I'd love another Davids or Naybet

Milner would be perfect. Could also fill in a number of key positions if needed.

 

[Shea]

Milner would be perfect. Could also fill in a number of key positions if needed.

Going to Liverpool isn't he? Good player although I see him more as a cog in a machine and a hard worker than a leader who would help inspire the youth. He's won things and is a good professional so I'm sure he could have a positive impact but I still don't really see him as the Davids/Parker type figure who would rally and lead

I remember us going for him before he moved from Leeds to Newcastle and if I recall correctly he didn't want to move to London

Obviously he's older now and that may no longer be an issue (if it ever was) but I haven't heard us linked to him at all, only Arsenal and Liverpool and my Liverpool supporting friends seem confident that he's basically there's now (although they probably get that belief from the same type of ITK/word of mouth that we often hear here and more often than not doesn't pan out)

I still don't think there's much chance of Milner being a Spurs player next year so again I'm pretty much scratching my head to see who we could bring in to fill the role

 

[MyNameIsNicolaBerti]

experience is overrated. signing some old duck to tell our younger better players about what they won two decades ago won't achieve anything.

I'm not sure that's true. But I think somewhere in your post you do have a point. I think there is a tendency to assume that just because a player has played a half dozen seasons that means they've learned much more than younger players. I think really it's down to a combination of attitude, intelligence and experience rather than just experience alone. I remember when Beckham trained with us Harry couldn't stop gushing about how he was a model professional constantly training day in day out to the late hours of the evening and how this was good for the rest of the squad to see. I think that's where attitudes and experience come in, not just because a player has been lucky enough to play at a good level for a while.

 

[danielneeds]

The thing with bringing an old head in, is to get the best of them you have to build a system around them, to compensate for their aging legs.

Leicester usually played two central midfielders with Cambiasso to do his running, and let him sit infront of the defence, and pick his moments to break forward.

The problem with Poch's system and gameplan is that it's not kind on aging CBs, the high line needing some legs. The double pivot in midfield also needs plenty of legs too. So hard to see where we could put someone like that in.

 

[philip]

I disagree, almost completely.

First, I don't think our biggest problem was individual mistakes and decisions.

Second, I don't think the reason for the individual mistakes was a lack of experience as the young players you listed weren't the most obvious culprits. The irony being that it was the more experienced members of the squad (Fazio, Vertonghen, Soldado, Paulinho, Kaboul, etc.) that stand out as being the chief culprits, not the young guys.

Carrick, Gerrard, and to a lesser extent Lampard make a big difference because they are good players, that's the key. It's not just experience.

I'm happy to add experience if it's because we're adding a good player, the right right player, who happens to have experience. I'm not sure it needs to be the thing we're looking for.

What experience gives you is the inbuilt knowledge when to drop deep to cover your partner, when the player you're facing is flagging and is liable to make a mistake, when the team needs calming down, when time wasting and frustrating the opposition is needed, which type of players need geeing up and which need the opposite, when a young player needs to be given more of the ball to encourage him, and much much more.

It's not about the experienced player necessarily being a leader, it's the way he plays the game and leads by example.

Many experienced players aren't great motivators, many aren't great leaders, many don't even realise when they are setting an example to others. It's what they do, built from years of experience that rubs off on the players around them.