Financial Results - club announcement

[leffe186]

The Scum have managed to spend over £500m net under Arteta without CL football, plus they cancelled contracts of some massive earners like Ozil and Aubameyang which cost tens of millions. It's about investing money wisely. We spent big-ish in the summer but all those players are now worth double, triple or quadruple what we paid for them.

While I would dispute that, it’s also not relevant to FFP unless we sell them. That’s what I’m thinking about - it seems to me that FFP is going to have a massive effect on our January business unless someone can tell me otherwise.

 

[thebenjamin]

While I would dispute that, it’s also not relevant to FFP unless we sell them. That’s what I’m thinking about - it seems to me that FFP is going to have a massive effect on our January business unless someone can tell me otherwise.

My understanding is that our FFP ceiling is the highest in the league.

 

[dovahkiin]

kieran maguire had a say on this yesterday https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-arsenal-fc-chelsea-transfers-b1130351.html

 

[Impspur1]

kieran maguire had a say on this yesterday https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-arsenal-fc-chelsea-transfers-b1130351.html

Would that be why ITKs say Levy is more concerned about wages than transfer fees?

 

[ukdy]

“Tottenham are the most successful club in Premier League history from a financial point of view,” says Maguire.

 

[spurmin]

“Tottenham are the most successful club in Premier League history from a financial point of view,” says Maguire.

We’ve won the financial cup?

 

[GetKaned]

“Tottenham are the most successful club in Premier League history from a financial point of view,” says Maguire.

You'll never sing that

 

[chas vs dave]

We’ve won the financial cup?

Ebitda league champions, you'll never sing that ....

 

[brasil_spur]

“Tottenham are the most successful club in Premier League history from a financial point of view,” says Maguire.

“They are the only Premier League club whose wages are less than half of the revenue coming in. That gives them greater flexibility in terms of ability to spend.”

Well yes, but also the reason we're in that position is that we are careful with our spending, so suddenly going on a spending spree goes against the principles that got us into that place to start with.

Personally, whilst Levy's penny pinching has massively grated me in the past, I think it has had more to do with wasting money on players rather than what we've spent.

Last Jan we spent €48m (if you include loan costs and future cost of Porro).
The Jan before we spent €59m (if you include loan costs and future cost of Deki).
And two Jan's before that we spent €34.5m.

I get that the above numbers includes deals which were structured differently, but also we were still also dealing with COVID accounting, so it made sense, especially with Deki, to do the deal the way we did.

On the basis of us selling Sanchez for €9.5m at the end of the summer window, I would expect us to be willing to spend (or commit to spend) of up to €60m this Jan.

If we assume a CB is going to cost us €30-35m, then I reckon we'll spend another €20-25m if we can secure the right type of player.

 

[vegassd]

Would that be why ITKs say Levy is more concerned about wages than transfer fees?

The transfer fees can be divided up when they go into the accounts, whereas the wages are just a regular cost without too much trickery involved. So for somebody like Ndombele, his annual wages will be about the same amount as his amortised transfer fee (roughly £10m per year I believe). And his high wages have probably been one of many reasons that he has been seemingly impossible to sell.

I think a better approach has been what we have done with Sarr and Udogie... getting them in on what I assume to be a fairly low wage and then rewarding them with new contracts when they have proved to be a good fit. It's obviously getting into crystal ball territory a bit, but certainly a lower risk approach in terms of financials.

It will be interesting to see if the big clubs do start adjusting their transfers based on FFP. Arsenal's net spending on players will get spread out across the years, but they can't afford to start running at more than a £30m/year loss or it will get close to the FFP limit. They seem to be pretty good and bringing young players through, so I doubt they will get into too much trouble.

 

[leffe186]

The transfer fees can be divided up when they go into the accounts, whereas the wages are just a regular cost without too much trickery involved. So for somebody like Ndombele, his annual wages will be about the same amount as his amortised transfer fee (roughly £10m per year I believe). And his high wages have probably been one of many reasons that he has been seemingly impossible to sell.

I think a better approach has been what we have done with Sarr and Udogie... getting them in on what I assume to be a fairly low wage and then rewarding them with new contracts when they have proved to be a good fit. It's obviously getting into crystal ball territory a bit, but certainly a lower risk approach in terms of financials.

It will be interesting to see if the big clubs do start adjusting their transfers based on FFP. Arsenal's net spending on players will get spread out across the years, but they can't afford to start running at more than a £30m/year loss or it will get close to the FFP limit. They seem to be pretty good and bringing young players through, so I doubt they will get into too much trouble.

The really interesting thing is that there are at least 8 clubs who can reasonably hope to challenge for the CL regularly now. As such, there is simply no guarantee of CL money or even Europa League money. Spending a ton (Chelsea) is going to be a massive risk - young players or no young players.

 

[vegassd]

The really interesting thing is that there are at least 8 clubs who can reasonably hope to challenge for the CL regularly now. As such, there is simply no guarantee of CL money or even Europa League money. Spending a ton (Chelsea) is going to be a massive risk - young players or no young players.

And to extend that a bit, there will almost always be a couple of very good teams who don't have any European fixtures at all. That lighter workload would suggest those teams have an advantage in the following league season, which might mean that CL qualification in particular (outside of City) will be a bit of a rotating door.

As things stand, Man U, Newcastle and Chelsea all go into next season without European games (depending on how the CL places get allocated). Those three teams would be more of a threat, and you would assume they perform better in the league next season.

The same would apply even if we assumed that Villa, West Ham and Brighton are the teams to miss out. They are capable teams who are more of a threat if they don't need to worry about midweek games.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Borrrringggggggg…..

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Couldn’t see anything referring to FFP more recently than this, and wanted to jumpstart the conversation with the transfer window here.

I feel like people are getting a bit carried away with the sort of transfers they expect this January. I stand to be corrected (and would love to be corrected) but it seems to me that with no European football this year (and to a significantly lesser impact, an early exit from the League Cup) that’s a BIG drop in revenue. We spent an absolute ton of money in the Summer, still have Ndombele and others effectively on the books, and were talking about FFP starting to bite back in March last year.

We’re all absolutely buzzing, but I just don’t see how we keep spending without making some big sacrifices.

The money from Kane and Winks is deemed pure profit as both home grown. This offsets a lot of the transfers as incoming transfers are amortised over length of contract .
Example…..Ndombele….£54m over 6 yrs we lose 9m per year.
So if we buy Dragusin on 5yr contract for 25m It only counts as 5m over the first year.
If we sold Tanguy in the summer for 12m we would book a profit of 3m as he is worth 9m on the books with one year left. Some hope of that.
Accountancy gone mad.

 

[superted4]

Wasn’t sure where to put this

Ranking every Premier League club by their wage bill in 2023-24: Arsenal above Chelsea...

Manchester United's wage bill is over 35 times higher than Luton Town's in a stark reminder of quite how stratified the Premier League will be in the 2023-24 season. Here’s the full rundown of how much each Premier League club pays in wages.

www.planetfootball.com

Estimates of annual wage bills. Was kindly put in the Man Utd thread by @Frozen_Waffles.

again I know we can and should do more as a club to win trophies, but we’re 7th highest wage bill behind Villa and only just in front of West Ham and Newcastle! Unbelievable!

and we’ve still got players on the books to shift before bringing in more fresh bodies

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Wasn’t sure where to put this

Ranking every Premier League club by their wage bill in 2023-24: Arsenal above Chelsea...

Manchester United's wage bill is over 35 times higher than Luton Town's in a stark reminder of quite how stratified the Premier League will be in the 2023-24 season. Here’s the full rundown of how much each Premier League club pays in wages.

www.planetfootball.com

Estimates of annual wage bills. Was kindly put in the Man Utd thread by @Frozen_Waffles.

again I know we can and should do more as a club to win trophies, but we’re 7th highest wage bill behind Villa and only just in front of West Ham and Newcastle! Unbelievable!

and we’ve still got players on the books to shift before bringing in more fresh bodies

Yet if you go to the Capology site it gives our annual wage bill for 1st team squad as £120,796,000

2023-2024 Tottenham Salaries and Contracts

Capology | Football Salaries & Finances

www.capology.com

​

And on this list quite a bit higher than WHU and Newcastle..

2023-2024 Premier League Payrolls

Capology | Football Salaries & Finances

www.capology.com

 

[superted4]

Yet if you go to the Capology site it gives our annual wage bill for 1st team squad as £120,796,000

2023-2024 Tottenham Salaries and Contracts

Capology | Football Salaries & Finances

www.capology.com

​

And on this list quite a bit higher than WHU and Newcastle..

2023-2024 Premier League Payrolls

Capology | Football Salaries & Finances

www.capology.com

Strange.

they also still list Lloris on there but have added Werner on.

if you take the amounts in isolation there still similar amounts between us and Villa which I find astonishing as Villa have only finished top 6 in what the last 15 years!!

 

[Westmorlandspur]

They usually like to be around 50% wages to turnover. I think we got down to 39% a few years ago.
Just lost some big earners in Kane, Lloris, Dier would have been on a decent whack as well.
if those figures are right about 120m , our turnover is 400 plus . The figures are usually based on the full wage bill not just players.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Strange.

they also still list Lloris on there but have added Werner on.

if you take the amounts in isolation there still similar amounts between us and Villa which I find astonishing as Villa have only finished top 6 in what the last 15 years!!

Think what you will find is that Villa are paying a very high wage/income ratio which I believe due to FFP has to come down to 70% by 2025 . In the figures quoted below I think that is Villa's total wage bill which is for everyone at the club including office staff etc, compare that to Spurs which in the last accounts was around £209 million. Villa are another club hampered by FFP so European qualification for them is vital.

Villa's wage bill in 2021-22 totalled £ 137 million slightly less than the previous season, consuming 77% of income. In 2020-21, the ratio was 75%, a big improvement on 2019-20 (97%) and a pleasing development from the excesses of Villa's championship years when wages outstripped earnings by 175% in 2019

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Strange.

they also still list Lloris on there but have added Werner on.

if you take the amounts in isolation there still similar amounts between us and Villa which I find astonishing as Villa have only finished top 6 in what the last 15 years!!

But then again do we know these figures are right. How would they know. Judging by the spelling it’s American , say no more.