Financial Results - club announcement

[gaffers]

Not sure you would depreciate fixed assets quite like that.

You don't.

 

[gaffers]

The loss is merely down to depreciation of the building projects that we have capitalised and amortisation of players. The important number really is EBITDA

The amortisation of players that are on loan, 'cos nobody wants them and they're value has tanked...

 

[Stuart Leathercock]

Not sure you would depreciate fixed assets quite like that.

You don't.

It's there in black and white in the accounts....

'Depreciation on property, plant and equipment: ~£72m (and also ~72m the year before)

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

It's there in black and white in the accounts....

'Depreciation on property, plant and equipment: ~£72m (and also ~72m the year before)

That’s not the bit I’m questioning. You’ve just picked a 20 year straight line depreciation period because it makes the sums work.
In the uk, we don’t depreciate land at all, and buildings would only be depreciated if they had a limited life, less than 60 years, I think. That’s because we are expected to keep a building in good repair.
The £72M is much more likely to be related to stuff like IT systems, the big screens, the pitches etc , all depreciated over different, much shorter periods.

 

[Enzo]

That’s not the bit I’m questioning. You’ve just picked a 20 year straight line depreciation period because it makes the sums work.
In the uk, we don’t depreciate land at all, and buildings would only be depreciated if they had a limited life, less than 60 years, I think. That’s because we are expected to keep a building in good repair.
The £72M is much more likely to be related to stuff like IT systems, the big screens, the pitches etc , all depreciated over different, much shorter periods.

£45m Land and buildings

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

View attachment 124257
£45m Land and buildings

"Freehold land is never a depreciating asset, but a building on it may be, if it has a life expectancy of less than 60 years. This includes buildings with planning permission or attached legal obligations that limit its expected life to under 60 years"

CG60285 - Reliefs: Replacement of Business Assets (Roll-over Relief): Qualifying Assets: Depreciating Assets - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

Maybe we'll get chucked off the site in 60 years? Or there's significant impairment, rather than depreciation?

 

[TheHodFather]

"Freehold land is never a depreciating asset, but a building on it may be, if it has a life expectancy of less than 60 years. This includes buildings with planning permission or attached legal obligations that limit its expected life to under 60 years"

CG60285 - Reliefs: Replacement of Business Assets (Roll-over Relief): Qualifying Assets: Depreciating Assets - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

Maybe we'll get chucked off the site in 60 years? Or there's significant impairment, rather than depreciation?

I guess they might be arguing that the stadium has a lifespan of less than 60 years? Sounds a bit mad at first but if you think about it the old WHL was pretty much completely rebuilt in the 80s/90s and has since been demolished. Old Trafford was heavily rebuilt in the 1990s but now needs serious work. Arsenal spent quite a lot of money on Highbury in the 1990s then knocked the place down. Stamford Bridge was rebuilt on 3 sides in the 1990s and refurbished on the 4th side, but they were talking about knocking it down and starting again. The old Wembley lasted 80 years before being demolished, but that included some reasonably big upgrades and it was pretty much universally agreed that the place was well past its sell-by-date by the time it was replaced.

I'd be surprised if the stadium didn't last more than 60 years myself, but if you wanted to argue that the expected lifespan was less than that (maybe for tax reasons?) there's probably a reasonable amount of evidence out there you could point to.

 

[Stuart Leathercock]

That’s not the bit I’m questioning. You’ve just picked a 20 year straight line depreciation period because it makes the sums work.
In the uk, we don’t depreciate land at all, and buildings would only be depreciated if they had a limited life, less than 60 years, I think. That’s because we are expected to keep a building in good repair.
The £72M is much more likely to be related to stuff like IT systems, the big screens, the pitches etc , all depreciated over different, much shorter periods.

That’s a hell of a lot of depreciation for such things. Also interesting that it went from £10m in 2018, to £25m in 2019 to £71m in 2020 and remained constant since then in 2021 and 2022.

I checked the accounts and in the last two set of accounts we depreciated land and buildings by £45m and plant and equipment by £25m. The equivalent numbers in the 2019 accounts were £465k and £6m.

 

[yido_number1]

That’s a hell of a lot of depreciation for such things. Also interesting that it went from £10m in 2018, to £25m in 2019 to £71m in 2020 and remained constant since then in 2021 and 2022.

I checked the accounts and in the last two set of accounts we depreciated land and buildings by £45m and plant and equipment by £25m. The equivalent numbers in the 2019 accounts were £465k and £6m.

I'm sure it's all smoke and mirrors to avoid paying tax

 

[Stuart Leathercock]

I'm sure it's all smoke and mirrors to avoid paying tax

It doesn't quite work like that... but as I said a few posts ago the best number to look at tends to be EBITDA.

 

[MR_BEN]

"Freehold land is never a depreciating asset, but a building on it may be, if it has a life expectancy of less than 60 years. This includes buildings with planning permission or attached legal obligations that limit its expected life to under 60 years"

CG60285 - Reliefs: Replacement of Business Assets (Roll-over Relief): Qualifying Assets: Depreciating Assets - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

Maybe we'll get chucked off the site in 60 years? Or there's significant impairment, rather than depreciation?

I can’t believe that they wouldn’t be depreciating the Stadium…. A stadium isn’t a regular building that is intended to stay for ever, or can be sold at any time.

It’s only of any use to the Club, they cannot sell it - unless a sale and leaseback arrangement, and there will always be a moment in time somewhere in the future where they will want to refurbish it, or knock down and rebuild.

If you don’t depreciate it at some point - you’d face a hell of an asset write off the day you decide to knock it down.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Loads of interesting financials in this article, did you ever want to know what the electric bill is at the stadium , probably doubled since 2022

Tottenham Hotspur Total Expenditure And Income Analysis And Data - Inside Investigation - The Sports Journal

Listen to this Article (Audio) Tottenham Hotspur Total Expenditure vs Revenue 2022 Revenue Expenditure Net Total Debt £326.16m £339.24m -£13.08m £706m Source: FIFA, UEFA, England FA, Ofgem, HMRC, Sponsorlytix Source: FIFA, UEFA, England FA, Ofgem, HMRC, Sponsorlytix Total Expenditure |...

sportsjournal.io

 

[PaulThurston]

Loads of interesting financials in this article, did you ever want to know what the electric bill is at the stadium , probably doubled since 2022

Tottenham Hotspur Total Expenditure And Income Analysis And Data - Inside Investigation - The Sports Journal

Listen to this Article (Audio) Tottenham Hotspur Total Expenditure vs Revenue 2022 Revenue Expenditure Net Total Debt £326.16m £339.24m -£13.08m £706m Source: FIFA, UEFA, England FA, Ofgem, HMRC, Sponsorlytix Source: FIFA, UEFA, England FA, Ofgem, HMRC, Sponsorlytix Total Expenditure |...

sportsjournal.io

Turning up the volume at the Brentford game can't have come cheap...

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Loads of interesting financials in this article, did you ever want to know what the electric bill is at the stadium , probably doubled since 2022

Tottenham Hotspur Total Expenditure And Income Analysis And Data - Inside Investigation - The Sports Journal

Listen to this Article (Audio) Tottenham Hotspur Total Expenditure vs Revenue 2022 Revenue Expenditure Net Total Debt £326.16m £339.24m -£13.08m £706m Source: FIFA, UEFA, England FA, Ofgem, HMRC, Sponsorlytix Source: FIFA, UEFA, England FA, Ofgem, HMRC, Sponsorlytix Total Expenditure |...

sportsjournal.io

Sorry - the "charts" used on that page were enough to drive me mad.

I don't think I have ever seen a more useless and irrelevant use of charts in a presentation in my life.


Something like this might have been more useful:

Number of days with rain: 28%
Number of days with sun: 48%
Average number of footballs used in training: 24%

 

[BENNO]

i've only looked at the wages bit - are these caste iron figures? Gil on £80k a week and Sarr and Spence on £65k - no wonder we won the race for these young players, that did shock me.

Also think Emmerson and Skipp needs a raise ! No other surprises although Kulu already on £110k again seems to show how we've enticed these promising youngsters under Paratici , definitely not Levyesque figures for such young,fairly untested players (Sess a pre Paratici signing, PL experience yet 'only' £57k)

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

i've only looked at the wages bit - are these caste iron figures? Gil on £80k a week and Sarr and Spence on £65k - no wonder we won the race for these young players, that did shock me.

Also think Emmerson and Skipp needs a raise ! No other surprises although Kulu already on £110k again seems to show how we've enticed these promising youngsters under Paratici , definitely not Levyesque figures for such young,fairly untested players (Sess a pre Paratici signing, PL experience yet 'only' £57k)

Think you have to take all these websites with a pinch of salt, Kane & Son probably near the mark but the younger players not so sure, Gil & Sarr this website gives different figures.

Tottenham Hotspur F.C. 2023 Salary Cap

Tottenham Hotspur F.C. 2023 payroll table, including breakdowns of salaries, bonuses, incentives, weekly wages, and more.

www.spotrac.com

 

[hero]

Think you have to take all these websites with a pinch of salt, Kane & Son probably near the mark but the younger players not so sure, Gil & Sarr this website gives different figures.

Tottenham Hotspur F.C. 2023 Salary Cap

Tottenham Hotspur F.C. 2023 payroll table, including breakdowns of salaries, bonuses, incentives, weekly wages, and more.

www.spotrac.com

https://capology.com/club/tottenham/salaries/ also one of the most reliable sources. They even mention where they an inside scoop and where they use their data model to guess a possible salary.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

https://capology.com/club/tottenham/salaries/ also one of the most reliable sources. They even mention where they an inside scoop and where they use their data model to guess a possible salary.

I should think Capology are nearer the mark on the likes of Sarr. What I find quite funny with all the talk of moneybags Newcastle , according to Capology we pay more in wages

 

[Trix]

I should think Capology are nearer the mark on the likes of Sarr. What I find quite funny with all the talk of moneybags Newcastle , according to Capology we pay more in wages

Why do you find it funny? Newcastle are literally only just starting out on their spending journey, and they have to do it carefully for ffp reasons. Year on year they'll increase their spend on players and wages there is little doubt on that.

 

[Dannyspur]

Does it show how much they made by denying me a seniors concession?