Football & Homosexuality

[Nocando]

These articles annoy me a bit. Obviously being heterosexual means I may not have the best understanding and the non existent number of openly gay footballers speaks for itself but should this be an issue these days? I've got gay mates and worked with gay people and there's plenty around us in all walks of life (radio tv etc). It really doesn't bother me one bit, just as it doesn't matter what colour skin they have etc. But why is this so taboo in football? Why are players afraid to come out... well I know why they are afraid it just amazes me that not one will even try it and work with their manager/club and fellow players to see how it works out.

A radio presenter can drop hints and over time (Scott Mills, Nick Grimshaw) it becomes known and quite obvious. I liked them before it was obvious, and I liked them after, it really makes no difference to me.

Is it the fear of abuse? Or being naked / close with someone who is gay? Footballers should be thick-skinned, we all have a laugh and a joke (sometimes in the showers themselves) and I assume many would laugh and joke with an openly gay mate and some even 'play flirt' with them.

So why is this an issue? Should the non gay fans be encouraging for more players to be open? Or should we just let it improve on its own accord? Or does it not matter either way???



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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21974436

Former Leeds winger Robbie Rogers says remaining in football after publicly declaring your homosexuality is "impossible".
Rogers, 25, recently said he was "stepping away" from football after announcing he was gay, becoming just the third footballer to do so.
"In football it's obviously impossible to come out," Rogers told The Guardian.
"Imagine going to training every day and being in that spotlight? It's been a bit of a circus anyway."
He added: "But that would have been crazy."
The California-born player won 18 caps for United States and was released by Leeds in January.
In February, he revealed he was gay in a message posted on his personal website.
He admitted the reaction of his team-mates was an issue he had to contend with when deciding whether to come out while still playing football.
Rogers on the future for gay footballers
"I know things will change. There will be gay footballers. I just don't know when and how long it will take.
"The next step is how do you create an atmosphere where men and women feel it's OK to come out and continue to play? It's a great question.
"Football has so much history. It's a great sport with so much culture and tradition. But I'm positive there will be changes."
Extract taken from The Guardian's interview with Robbie Rogers
"I was very fearful how my team-mates were going to react. Was it going to change them?
"Even though I'd still be the same person would it change the way they acted towards me - when we were in the dressing room or the bus?"
Rogers, who also played for Dutch side Heerenveen, Columbus Crew and Stevenage on loan, said football was an amazing, but brutal sport, but one that "picks people up and slams them on their heads".
"Adding the gay aspect doesn't make a great cocktail," he added.
Rogers said he was unsure if he could have become a role-model who could stand up to the likely abuse he would receive for being openly gay.
"I might be strong enough but I don't know if that's really what I want. I'd just want to be a footballer.
"I wouldn't want to deal with the circus. Are people coming to see you because you're gay?"
The American also admitted he was concerned by the reaction of opposition fans and the media.
"If you're playing well it will be reported as: 'The gay footballer is playing well.' And if you have a bad game it'll be: 'Aw, that gay dude, he's struggling because he's gay.'"
Only two other footballers have publicly said they were gay.
In 1990, former England Under-21 international Justin Fashanu was the first professional footballer in Britain to reveal he was gay. He took his own life eight years later, aged 37.
Swedish lower league player Anton Hysen, son of former Liverpool player Glenn Hysen, publicly announced his homosexuality in an interview with a Swedish football magazine in 2011.

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[Nocando]

I don't really like this article from John Fashanu as it seems he almost wants to take away the issue of being gay because he felt he wasn't. Now he's obviously in a better position to know (plus he was in an awful situation and I accept that), but then again he may not want to believe that due to being so close. Either way it's not helping is it?

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/9149569/John-Fashanu-my-brother-Justin-wasnt-gay.html

John Fashanu last night denied his late brother was gay, only six weeks after the BBC documentary Britain’s Gay Footballers focusing on Justin’s plight was presented by his own daughter.

By Telegraph staff8PM GMT 16 Mar 2012
Justin Fashanu, who committed suicide in 1998 eight years after revealing his homosexuality in an interview, became the subject of Amal Fashanu’s documentary. .
But in an interview with TalkSPORT to be broadcast at 10pm on March 17, John has insisted that Justin was a publicity-seeker who made up stories to get money and attention.
“I don’t believe he was gay. Number two, I don’t believe he had affairs with MPs and number three I don’t believe he was having an affair with one of the young ladies from Coronation Street – it was just nonsense. Showbiz.
“If you had a brother who came out and said, ‘Hey listen, I’m gay’ we’d welcome you, say ‘No problem’ but if you had someone who came out and said, ‘I’m a spaceman’ when you’re not a spaceman then that’s a bit silly.
“It’s a macho man’s game and I think there are reasons why we haven’t had any gay footballers come out. I don’t believe there will be.
"I’m not saying there aren’t some there, but I can tell you in twenty years of playing all my matches I have never come across a gay footballer.
“I’m not someone who says, ‘I’ve got black friends, they’re all good people.’ I’m not going to say ‘I’ve got gay friends, who are all good people.’
"It’s unfortunate because I don’t believe he was, and if he was, who gives a rat’s arse? So what? But don’t go and sell your stories or make up stories for money for goodness sake.
He added: "I’m heterosexual, will I make it on to the front page of the newspapers?”
“My daughter was very close to her uncle and it has taken a long time for her to understand that Justin wasn’t really gay, he just wanted attention.
"I remember Justin coming out with another story about him dating Coronation Street lady as well. Again, that was another made up story to get front pages.
"When I said this to Justin he’d say, ‘I need publicity, I need publicity.’ That was where he’d derive his attention and his money.
“It wasn’t the fact of him being gay, or whether he’s white or whether he’s black, that was never a concern to me whatsoever.
"What was a concern to me was somebody going and screaming on the rooftops “I’m black” or “I’m heterosexual” or “I’m gay” to get publicity or money. Making up stories to get attention.”
When asked about the state of their relationship around the time Justin hanged himself, Fashanu said: “Strained, I would say.
"I had to look at my mother who had cancer at the time, I had to take the mantle of being head of the family because Justin was not acting accordingly.
"My mum could not understand for the life of her she couldn’t understand this man, her son, so I made it clear that I could do whatever’s necessary to protect my family.
"Some people might say it’s selfish, my daughter said to me, ‘You’re my Daddy, I love you, but you were selfish, you disowned your brother.’
"I said, ‘I didn’t disown my brother, but I pushed him further away because of the challenges that he was going to bring into our family.”
What did he think about his brother’s suicide?
“What does one think? Obviously you’re devastated.
"Ironically, two days beforehand I said to one of my brothers, ‘We have a challenge here. I think that Justin, the way he’s talking, he’s become a loose cannon.’
"I couldn’t get hold of him. I couldn’t get to him. If I gave him money, he was like a bar of soap. If I do this, it’ll go the other way.
“It was very difficult to show him love, to try and put our arms around him because once we’d spent the evening together, we’ve had a lovely dinner, we’ve all talked and kissed and cuddled and made up it was wonderful and then we’d hear another story in the newspaper. It was a very challenging situation.
“The whole family was devastated, no more than my mother because on the day, the 19 February, the day he committed suicide, one year later was the day she died.
"So I lost my mother and I lost my brother and that’s what I was trying to do. I was trying not to lose my brother and trying not to lose my mother.
"I might have been able to reach out with an olive branch instead of reaching out with a cane.”

 

[Sum Monsterism]

"I’m not saying there aren’t some there, but I can tell you in twenty years of playing all my matches I have never come across a gay footballer."

mmmmm. or maybe you couldn't tell, because they're no different to anyone else.

no horns, scales, tails or feathers.

it's a sad predicament to be sure.

 

[Nocando]

"I’m not saying there aren’t some there, but I can tell you in twenty years of playing all my matches I have never come across a gay footballer."

mmmmm. or maybe you couldn't tell, because they're no different to anyone else.

no horns, scales, tails or feathers.

it's a sad predicament to be sure.

Yeah this crossed my mind too.

Does it really matter is there even a need to go overboard about it and asked players to come out? I'm not sure if it is a problem just because one player who happens to be gay says it was a problem and caused him to retire (many more may be perfectly fine with it). After all everyone has things they don't discuss openly at work or even at home, that's human nature I think.

 

[dontcallme]

Interesting subject. A couple of my friends believe the WC shouldn't be held in Qatar because homosexuality is illegal there.

I can understand Rogers not wanting to be a pioneer for homosexuality in football. He just wanted to be a footballer. But he hasn't come across homophobia so he can't really complain about it.

As for Fashanu. If he believes his brother was just an attention seeker then fair enough. I don't believe him but have to take him at his word I guess.

 

[Blackcanary]

Interesting subject. A couple of my friends believe the WC shouldn't be held in Qatar because homosexuality is illegal there.

I can understand Rogers not wanting to be a pioneer for homosexuality in football. He just wanted to be a footballer. But he hasn't come across homophobia so he can't really complain about it.

As for Fashanu. If he believes his brother was just an attention seeker then fair enough. I don't believe him but have to take him at his word I guess.

I think this is the current problem - who wants to be brave enough with having to come out publically, put up with cruel chanting at matches (probably from their own fans as well as the opposition) AND shoulder the burden of being gay voices and poster-boys for the whole industry. That's asking a huge amount of any young man.

 

[Nocando]

I think this is the current problem - who wants to be brave enough with having to come out publically, put up with cruel chanting at matches (probably from their own fans as well as the opposition) AND shoulder the burden of being gay voices and poster-boys for the whole industry. That's asking a huge amount of any young man.

Yes there are so many facets to this whole debate. In some ways it would be beneficial if a higher profile player came out who has the right tools to handle the added pressure, then it maybe wouldn't be as much of a problem.

However whether he was attention seeking or not, Justin was pretty high profile figure to come out. Yet it's also unclear whether this was what caused his career to tail off. As has been said already it's an additional burden that many in that position probably don't need.

 

[Sum Monsterism]

I've started to type a further response about six times now and just keep getting so angry that I have to delete my meanderings.

People, in the main, are shits aren't they? perhaps it'll fade out - racism, homophobia etc - as generations expire.

or maybe we need an Extinction Level Event to start from scratch.

 

[Monkey boy]

"I’m not saying there aren’t some there, but I can tell you in twenty years of playing all my matches I have never come across a gay footballer.

Ooooo matron!!!

 

[Nocando]

I've started to type a further response about six times now and just keep getting so angry that I have to delete my meanderings.

People, in the main, are shits aren't they? perhaps it'll fade out - racism, homophobia etc - as generations expire.

or maybe we need an Extinction Level Event to start from scratch.

Ah no post your meanderings, I'm sure it will make interesting reading....plus it can't be any worse than 99% of stuff I post.

 

[Blackcanary]

I've started to type a further response about six times now and just keep getting so angry that I have to delete my meanderings.

People, in the main, are shits aren't they? perhaps it'll fade out - racism, homophobia etc - as generations expire.

or maybe we need an Extinction Level Event to start from scratch.

I actually don't think that's true, in the main. I think that, as individuals, people are actually pretty decent (or at least maintain a veneer of acceptability of liberal social ideas). But that changes when people are in a crowd, when they feel comfortably anonymous or perhaps feel pressured to join in. Then people seem to regress.

 

[CosmicHotspur]

No, of course it shouldn't be an issue but sadly, due to the mentality and attitude of some football supporters, there are players who don't want it to become public knowledge.

It is private and they are entitled to their privacy but it's very sad that they don't feel they can come out openly and without prejudice. It's not their colleagues and fellow team mates they fear as I'm sure they are often aware of it just as their families and close friends may also know, it's partly the general public but especially football fans at large who would taunt them and make their lives uncomfortable.

 

[Sum Monsterism]

I actually don't think that's true, in the main. I think that, as individuals, people are actually pretty decent (or at least maintain a veneer of acceptability of liberal social ideas). But that changes when people are in a crowd, when they feel comfortably anonymous or perhaps feel pressured to join in. Then people seem to regress.

well you're likelier right than I. pack mentality etc. I still hear idiots in the south upper making, what I presume they think are innocuous, comments about skin colour and that gets right up my tits. and my nose. what am I supposed to say to a 60+year old guy (or half the freaking row) about that? What's the reason for that?

And why do the daily mail say "gay man this" or "lesbian daughter that" when they never f*cking say "straight guy this" or "asexual girl that"..?

I get angry. And eat lipstick to soothe the pain when I get in.

 

[SteveH]

As long as its not become compulsory - no a problem here

 

[TheChosenOne]

I am against West Ham fans singing "Come On You Irons" That is gayist.

 

[Scarlet57]

Football tends to attract the more ****ish people over most sports doesn't it?

 

[mpickard2087]

As Stevenage are my 2nd team, and he retired during a loan spell there, I have kinda followed this story and discussed it a bit on the Stevenage forums.

I think the guy is making it into more of an issue than it is, and in fact I have to say I think he is seeking a bit of attention by making out how he is 'different' and couldn't fit in. In the modern era the vast majority of players wouldn't have given a shit about his sexuality, and on the forums it wasn't an issue for the fans either. They didn't want him back... but that's only because of the utterly rubbish performances he put in!

 

[Sum Monsterism]

Football tends to attract the more ****ish people over most sports doesn't it?

Richie: I know, I know. And isn't it funny that you only read that sort of thing in a British newspaper?

Eddie: Yeah, well, you don't read French or Italian newspapers, do you?

Richie: Well I don't speak French or Italian. Good grief Eddie, hold together a cogent argument why don't you?

 

[worcestersauce]

Gay footballers? phwwwer! don't be silly.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

Im really happy for this robbie rodgers bloke...is that his name?

But to retire because he THINKS his team mates would judge him, and because he'll get abuse from the fans? That shows complete disrespect on his team mates, and on football's governing body who would ban anyone guilty of abusing him.

IMO homophobic abuse is EXACTLY the same as racial abuse, and you see black/asian players shrug it off constantly.

Im sure he's very proud of himself for coming out, but if he sacrificed his career over it, why didnt he just wait?

IMO, He is an attention seeking bitch