What's new

Football is more than just a business

NEVILLEB

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
6,805
6,458
Football is about instincts, feelings and heart. At it's best it's magical and romantic and can make you leap out of your chair in sheer joy.

Few other forms of entertainment can offer up the drama and emotional roller coaster of a good football match.

Running a football club can't be done just by examining statistics and data analysis. Pro Zone might tell you how many miles a player runs but it misses the intuitive analysis that can only come from human instinct. That gut feeling you get inside.

Much like the film industry we see decisions made by committee in football. The money involved is so large that fear of making a mistake stifles creativity and self expression. So people order reports and data analysis to back up there arguments. They need physical evidence to protect them from criticism.

Directors of Football are brought in with their expensive suits and silver tongues. Cost analysis charts and other data are used to compare players turn an instinctive decision into a business one.

"Why buy Scott Parker when his value will depreciate so quickly? This is a poor business decision..."

The Managers instincts become marginalised against the 'data' that is on offer. How can you argue that a certain player will be good for the club when the 'data' says Player B will be better.

As Comolli belatedly acknowledged, ProZone doesn't tell you the character of the player. It doesn't tell you how they react under pressure, how they are in the dressing room, how ambitious they are.

"What good is a Taraabt if he won't listen and learn?"

This push to make every decision a business one is, for me, at the root of Daniel Levy's frustrating failure to achieve his potential.

His most successful Managerial appointment came at a time when all his 'data' and planning had failed him. In appointing Redknapp he had take his fingers off the steering wheel and let the Manager decide the football strategy...at least for a while.

As success came the desire to have more control nawed away at him. He was the Chairman after all and why shouldn't he have more say in what happened in his club. The Director of Football position had some success in the past after all...Maybe he'd just appointed the wrong people...

So out went Harry and in came the smartly dressed, pseudo tactical genius of AVB. A man that only looked good on paper but talked a hell of a game. A man with little to no natural 'instincts' for the game. He didn't rate Van Der Vaart and his subsequent transfer decisions have contributed to the disjointed, average squad we have now. The Director of Football position came back in and what followed has been entirely predictable. A squad assembled by committee with a focus on business strategy and not on instinct.

Levy went back to trusting his 'data' and repeated all his old mistakes over again.

If you pick a Manager, TRUST him to pick the players. If you can't do that then you shouldn't have appointed him in the first place.

Alex Ferguson would travel to youth players parents houses to meet their parents. He would see what their character was like and what they were made of. He knew that more than talent, 'personality' is the greatest predictor of success. Genius is after all 90% perspiration.

So Daniel please step away from the football side of the club. You have run the business side very well but we need another voice who helps balance out the spreadsheets with an instinct of how to assemble and run a successful football team.
 
Last edited:

yido_number1

He'll always be magic
Jun 8, 2004
8,764
17,036
Correction: Football used to be more than just a business. It is now one of the biggest businesses in the world and unfortunately will never be anything other than a business again.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,183
48,814
On the other hand, you can't blame Levy for mistrusting a manager's "eye" for talent....

He came into a club after years of Sugar just handing a string of managers millions to follow their instincts, and buy whatever their favourite agents were selling, the result was a club full of aging crocks and underachievers.

There is a lot to be said for analytics, and it is no suprise that the likes of Citeh and Chelsea have huge departments dedicated to it, Arsenal have just sunk millions into purchasing their own analytics company, that apparently does the most detailed analysis so far of matches around the world -
http://www.theguardian.com/football...rust-arsene-wenger-army-statdna-data-analysts

However if we look at perhaps our greatest ever team since Billy Nic - Redknapp's 11-12 side, it was a happy medium between the Prozone scouting of Comolli identifying young talent, and the sage old football man's eye for the missing pieces, the guts, the leadership, the player who works for the team before himself.

There has to be a way Levy can find a marriage between the two schools.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,771
89,027
Correction: Football used to be more than just a business. It is now one of the biggest businesses in the world and unfortunately will never be anything other than a business again.

I'd argue that Football, while big money these days, still pales in the size of revenues to most business industries.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,183
48,814
It not a business for Abramovich. or Sheikh mansour!
It is a business for them though. They know the oil will run out one day, that is why Abu Dhabi is investing in property and institutions like football - to one day form the backbone of their empire.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Jul 21, 2003
8,642
9,313
It is a business for them though. They know the oil will run out one day, that is why Abu Dhabi is investing in property and institutions like football - to one day form the backbone of their empire.

Now I like long term planning as much as the next guy!

I will politely disagree with you.:love:
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Football is about instincts, feelings and heart. At it's best it's magical and romantic and can make you leap out of your chair in sheer joy.

Few other forms of entertainment can offer up the drama and emotional roller coaster of a good football match.

Running a football club can't be done just by examining statistics and data analysis. Pro Zone might tell you how many miles a player runs but it misses the intuitive analysis that can only come from human instinct. That gut feeling you get inside.

Much like the film industry we see decisions made by committee in football. The money involved is so large that fear of making a mistake stifles creativity and self expression. So people order reports and data analysis to back up there arguments. They need physical evidence to protect them from criticism.

Directors of Football are brought in with their expensive suits and silver tongues. Cost analysis charts and other data are used to compare players turn an instinctive decision into a business one.

"Why buy Scott Parker when his value will depreciate so quickly? This is a poor business decision..."

The Managers instincts become marginalised against the 'data' that is on offer. How can you argue that a certain player will be good for the club when the 'data' says Player B will be better.

As Comolli belatedly acknowledged, ProZone doesn't tell you the character of the player. It doesn't tell you how they react under pressure, how they are in the dressing room, how ambitious they are.

"What good is a Taraabt if he won't listen and learn?"

This push to make every decision a business one is, for me, at the root of Daniel Levy's frustrating failure to achieve his potential.

His most successful Managerial appointment came at a time when all his 'data' and planning had failed him. In appointing Redknapp he had take his fingers off the steering wheel and let the Manager decide the football strategy...at least for a while.

As success came the desire to have more control nawed away at him. He was the Chairman after all and why shouldn't he have more say in what happened in his club. The Director of Football position had some success in the past after all...Maybe he'd just appointed the wrong people...

So out went Harry and in came the smartly dressed, pseudo tactical genius of AVB. A man that only looked good on paper but talked a hell of a game. A man with little to no natural 'instincts' for the game. He didn't rate Van Der Vaart and his subsequent transfer decisions have contributed to the disjointed, average squad we have now. The Director of Football position came back in and what followed has been entirely predictable. A squad assembled by committee with a focus on business strategy and not on instinct.

Levy went back to trusting his 'data' and repeated all his old mistakes over again.

If you pick a Manager, TRUST him to pick the players. If you can't do that then you shouldn't have appointed him in the first place.

Alex Ferguson would travel to youth players parents houses to meet their parents. He would see what their character was like and what they were made of. He knew that more than talent, 'personality' is the greatest predictor of success. Genius is after all 90% perspiration.

So Daniel please step away from the football side of the club. You have run the business side very well but we need another voice who helps balance out the spreadsheets with an instinct of how to assemble and run a successful football team.


That's a lovely narrative. Like many good fiction is.

You're ignoring the bit where good old fashioned Redknapp fucked up CL football with a team that had Modric, VDV, Bale, Adebayor,King, Parker, Gallas using just his great instinct only, non data analysed approach.

Or the bit where he knocked back a contract offer, after being supported through a court case because he thought England were sniffing.

Or the bit where the money ball data guys actually brought in most of the best players we've been watching lately.
 
Last edited:

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,183
48,814
No one makes money out football other than bookmakers?
Look at what they are building in Manchester though, the campus, all the infrostructure, it's all long term thinking, and easy to do if you have their resources. It's no vanity project though, they have a plan.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Look at what they are building in Manchester though, the campus, all the infrostructure, it's all long term thinking, and easy to do if you have their resources. It's no vanity project though, they have a plan.


Like building the best training facility in Europe you mean ?
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,771
89,027
It is a business for them though. They know the oil will run out one day, that is why Abu Dhabi is investing in property and institutions like football - to one day form the backbone of their empire.
I think that when the Oil and other natural resources run out, football is going to be very very low on most peoples priorities.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,183
48,814
Like building the best training facility in Europe you mean ?
It's an investment though, they got the land for nothing. I don't know for sure, but I'm sure they'll have bought up areas around it to develop, which will increase exponentially too.
 

NEVILLEB

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
6,805
6,458
That's a lovely narrative. Like many good fiction is.

You're ignoring the bit where god old fashioned Redknapp fucked up CL football with a team that had Modric, VDV, Bale, Adebayor,King, Parker, Gallas using just his great instinct only, non data analysed approach.

Or the bit where he knocked back a contract offer, after being supported through a court case because he thought England were sniffing.

Or the bit where the money ball data guys actually brought in most of the best players we've been watching lately.

We lost to Norwich and QPR late in the season which you think is entirely the Managers fault.

Arsenal, who pipped us by one point, lost to QPR and Wigan.
On the other hand, you can't blame Levy for mistrusting a manager's "eye" for talent....

He came into a club after years of Sugar just handing a string of managers millions to follow their instincts, and buy whatever their favourite agents were selling, the result was a club full of aging crocks and underachievers.

There is a lot to be said for analytics, and it is no suprise that the likes of Citeh and Chelsea have huge departments dedicated to it, Arsenal have just sunk millions into purchasing their own analytics company, that apparently does the most detailed analysis so far of matches around the world -
http://www.theguardian.com/football...rust-arsene-wenger-army-statdna-data-analysts

However if we look at perhaps our greatest ever team since Billy Nic - Redknapp's 11-12 side, it was a happy medium between the Prozone scouting of Comolli identifying young talent, and the sage old football man's eye for the missing pieces, the guts, the leadership, the player who works for the team before himself.

There has to be a way Levy can find a marriage between the two schools.

It's not really two schools is it. Mixing younger talent with old heads is common sense and something Man Utd did so well in the nineties.

If Arsene Wenger has been basing his acquisitions on analytical reports it would explain why his squad has been out of balance for about 10 years.

They are useful for highlighting information that the eye can't see but they are insignificant against the power of the force...I mean human intuition.

I could tell you Soldado would struggle in the Premier League through common sense. He's not powerful enough.

We did benefit from some of the Comolli purchases but it didn't help us build a balanced squad. Only a manager can do that.
 
Top