Glasgow Rangers player factory

[Blotto]

Well, with the full force of the Rangers organization behind us, feeding us all their talent for years to come, we'll be charging towards mid-table stasis in no time! :dance:

I think we've got the best they have to offer in the form of Hutton--at least for a while. I'm not sure about McGregor, he's looked good every time I've seen him, but I've only seen him a couple of times. So yeah, aside from Hutton (who we already have) not much on offer there. Oh wait, is Cousin for sale?!!??

 

[Kevealis]

Im not sure about celtic, but the rangers supporter club membership worldwide rivels thats of man utd, arsenal etc. NARSA (north american rangers supporters assosiation) is one of the biggest supporters bodies in the world. Man Utd etc may have a bigger fan base because of the large support in china etc, but in terms of actual supporters club membership rangers certainly are up there and im sure celtc arent far behind. Both clubs are huge in that sense, and financially are a decent size considering the bottom clubs in the premiership get more from TV revenue than both the old firm (and thats including our tv money from champs league/uefa cup). Rangers and Celtic would not come close to the big 4 in the first couple of season in the premiership, but after the money they get is increased, the lure of the club would mean they would start challenging for the top (maybe not winning the league, but challenging for top 4 finishes).

As for getting the right players for less, rangers spent £12million on a state of the art training base and youth academy in 2000. Alan Hutton is first big name to come from it, and guys like Allan McGregor are joining him in a growing list of very good players with big futures ahead of him. Our under 19s just won the league and cup double for the 2nd year in a row. And when it comes to players like cuellar, we found him after playing against Osasuna in the Uefa Cup last season. In terms of overall quality, the players we have arent any better (or indeed better value for money) then players the lies of spurs have. Being in the EPL, the price you pay for players is automatically increased...thats to say, you are in a league with money, so stupid money gets paid for average players. Thats the only difference.

 

[Kevealis]

Well, with the full force of the Rangers organization behind us, feeding us all their talent for years to come, we'll be charging towards mid-table stasis in no time! :dance:

I think we've got the best they have to offer in the form of Hutton--at least for a while. I'm not sure about McGregor, he's looked good every time I've seen him, but I've only seen him a couple of times. So yeah, aside from Hutton (who we already have) not much on offer there. Oh wait, is Cousin for sale?!!??

:rofl:Cousin is not good enough for spurs

 

[Clydey]

Lawell counted your fanbase at 10 million
You make me laugh,you and i know ibrox and celtic park have loads of seats empty for most games.
I should know,in a season ticket holder in the Govan rear GR1.
As for attendances your right, but both clubs count there st holders that dont attend.
Also Cis and scottish cup v Hearts and aberdeen,21 thousand and 28 thousand respectiveley and against striling 32 thousand.
Now with my st the first cis game is free and the others you have to pay for,im sure its the same at Celtic that would count for the low attendances
As for have a million fans in America,your kidding,i proved you wrong before.
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=30533&page=4

Note Fulham pulled 23 thousand!

As for the largest support for a fanbase travelling to a game using your seville calculator,incidentlywhich the major of seville disagreed with numbers.
Next your be talking about your award from uefa for the greatest fans earth and why doesnt everyone loves us(but dont mention the trouble at Blackburn,Boastivia,planes being turned back to cardiff,the Keepers you attack and pitch invasions)
That all end next Ends next week as the invasion of Manchester begins,got my ticket on the cccs scheme.
Seville will be a distant memory!
100 thousand+

This is hilarious. You're using the same link that I refuted last time!

"Your words: As for have a million fans in America,your kidding,i proved you wrong before.
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=30533&page=4

Note Fulham pulled 23 thousand!"

You used the following link:

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20070720&content_id=106743&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

"COMMERCE CITY, Colo. -- Colombia's two contributions to the MLS All-Stars -- Juan Pablo Angel and Juan Toja -- scored goals six minutes apart late in the first half to lead Major League Soccer's best to a 2-0 victory against Celtic FC on Thursday night before a sellout crowd at Dick's Sporting Goods Park."

That's right, genius. Celtic pulled less than Fulham because, wait for it, the stadium held only 18,700!

Celtic pulled in 60,000 against Manchester in America and 30,000 against Boca (again, the capacity dictates the size of support that turns up).

Care to comment on your obviously flawed link, which actually proves my point?

As for your point about Seville, I think I'd rather trust an unbiased UEFA than someone who clearly favours Rangers over Celtic. Your final line gave the game away:

"That all end next Ends next week as the invasion of Manchester begins,got my ticket on the cccs scheme.
Seville will be a distant memory!
100 thousand+"

I'm objective. You clearly favour Rangers over Celtic.

 

[Blotto]

:rofl:Cousin is not good enough for spurs

I'm glad someone got my joke. :razz:

 

[mkkid]

This is hilarious. You're using the same link that I refuted last time!

"Your words: As for have a million fans in America,your kidding,i proved you wrong before.
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=30533&page=4

Note Fulham pulled 23 thousand!"

You used the following link:

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20070720&content_id=106743&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

"COMMERCE CITY, Colo. -- Colombia's two contributions to the MLS All-Stars -- Juan Pablo Angel and Juan Toja -- scored goals six minutes apart late in the first half to lead Major League Soccer's best to a 2-0 victory against Celtic FC on Thursday night before a sellout crowd at Dick's Sporting Goods Park."

That's right, genius. Celtic pulled less than Fulham because, wait for it, the stadium held only 18,700!

Celtic pulled in 60,000 against Manchester in America and 30,000 against Boca (again, the capacity dictates the size of support that turns up).

Care to comment on your obviously flawed link, which actually proves my point?

As for your point about Seville, I think I'd rather trust an unbiased UEFA than someone who clearly favours Rangers over Celtic. Your final line gave the game away:

"That all end next Ends next week as the invasion of Manchester begins,got my ticket on the cccs scheme.
Seville will be a distant memory!
100 thousand+"

I'm objective. You clearly favour Rangers over Celtic.

Never bother to hide my allegiances, i put them in most of my posts.

As i said before

13/07/2006 Celtic played against DC United attendance 15 thousand, Chelsea played there 31 thousand and the stadium hold 56 thousand. They play Real Madrid at another stadium ,attendance 66k
15/07/2007 Celtic against Chivas of Guadalajara 17 thousand same stadium
20/07/2006 Celtic played the New England revolution, attendance 16 thousand stadium capacity 68 thousand
20/07/2007 v MLS attendance 18k stadium hold 18k
22/7/2007 Celtic Chicago fire attendance 16 thousand stadium capacity 20 thousand.
So in those five games there were 218 thousand tickets available, they sold 66 thousand. Yes they have a massive following but even Fulham got a gate of 23 thousand.


http://www.celticprogrammesonline.com/PROGRAMME COVERS/FREINDLIES/USAcelts/intheusa.htm

http://ftp.ibiblio.org/footy/2006d/0712_dc_cfc_ycj.php

The point,i made about Fulham,that you missed was most european teams can pull 20 thousand fans in the usa.
Even West Ham are playing there this summer!
The reason,you played in smaller stadiums,is because you couldnt sell out the bigger ones.
As for the 60k,who were they going to see Celtic or Manchester.Who really do have a massive following in the USA.
But my real problem with this is clubs that say they have million of fans abroad.Celtic are a big club in Scotland,Ireland they have fans in America and world wide.Bigger than Benfica,definetely not IMHO.Thse survey and polls are completed with a northern european basis!
You can make a survey and poll,agree with your point of view.
What do they base this on someone buying a football shirt.They have no real fan loyalty.I was in Canada and i was talking to a man in bar,who had a Celtic top on.No interested in football but he was Irish descent,Is he a fan.
What happen when Nakmura leaves Celtic,most fans in Japan ,will switch to someone else,who signs a Japanesee player.Roma had loads of Japanese fans,how many now.
As for Fifa,there a really great book called the game,its all about Fifa its a great read.


Im really looking forward to Next Wednesday,win or lose.
I was wondering,if you could you do me a favour,can you Record ,Cornation street and then the Bill as you will have nothing better to do!

 

[batigol]

Hmmm...I know about all these global fan base talks but seriously....are we missing out on teams like Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Milan, and Bayern Munich? It is hard for me to imagine Celtic and Rangers having a bigger fan base than Real Madrid or Barcelona regardless of the statistics some people pull from whatever survey others conduct.

I won't be surprise if any of these teams have a bigger fan base than Spurs either. To be honest, no one in Asia really support Celtic or Rangers much and you will probably find more Real or Barca supporters (Man U, Arse, Pool are the dominant ones in Asia) here, and you do know that Asia consists of a big portion of world's population. I doubt the survey was able to cover much of Asia so I guess it is pretty much skewed.

Back to the topic, I think SPL reacted strongly to their poor international performances since 2000 when they realised that they were no longer producing top quality Scottish players from their league and their efforts since then to revamp their system resulted in development of players like Hutton. I think most people would notice that for quite some time before Hutton and Gordon, the only player from SPL which came to EPL was Barry Ferguson so that indicates the lack of quality in SPL players during that period.

Also, the lack of $$ in the league aided the development their young players as they have a better chance of graduating from an SPL youth squad to 1st team as compared to EPL where youngsters constantly find great difficulty in moving up to the 1st team as there are so many foreign players being brought during to the excess $$ in the league.

 

[Clydey]

Never bother to hide my allegiances, i put them in most of my posts.

As i said before

13/07/2006 Celtic played against DC United attendance 15 thousand, Chelsea played there 31 thousand and the stadium hold 56 thousand. They play Real Madrid at another stadium ,attendance 66k
15/07/2007 Celtic against Chivas of Guadalajara 17 thousand same stadium
20/07/2006 Celtic played the New England revolution, attendance 16 thousand stadium capacity 68 thousand
20/07/2007 v MLS attendance 18k stadium hold 18k
22/7/2007 Celtic Chicago fire attendance 16 thousand stadium capacity 20 thousand.
So in those five games there were 218 thousand tickets available, they sold 66 thousand. Yes they have a massive following but even Fulham got a gate of 23 thousand.


http://www.celticprogrammesonline.com/PROGRAMME COVERS/FREINDLIES/USAcelts/intheusa.htm

http://ftp.ibiblio.org/footy/2006d/0712_dc_cfc_ycj.php

The point,i made about Fulham,that you missed was most european teams can pull 20 thousand fans in the usa.
Even West Ham are playing there this summer!
The reason,you played in smaller stadiums,is because you couldnt sell out the bigger ones.
As for the 60k,who were they going to see Celtic or Manchester.Who really do have a massive following in the USA.
But my real problem with this is clubs that say they have million of fans abroad.Celtic are a big club in Scotland,Ireland they have fans in America and world wide.Bigger than Benfica,definetely not IMHO.Thse survey and polls are completed with a northern european basis!
You can make a survey and poll,agree with your point of view.
What do they base this on someone buying a football shirt.They have no real fan loyalty.I was in Canada and i was talking to a man in bar,who had a Celtic top on.No interested in football but he was Irish descent,Is he a fan.
What happen when Nakmura leaves Celtic,most fans in Japan ,will switch to someone else,who signs a Japanesee player.Roma had loads of Japanese fans,how many now.
As for Fifa,there a really great book called the game,its all about Fifa its a great read.


Im really looking forward to Next Wednesday,win or lose.
I was wondering,if you could you do me a favour,can you Record ,Cornation street and then the Bill as you will have nothing better to do!

So you are trying to say that the likes of Fulham, West Ham and Chelsea have a bigger worldwide following than Celtic? And you're basing it on an American tour?

I like how you make your point by simply saying something with great conviction.

"Thse survey and polls are completed with a northern european basis!"

Do you think if you say it loudly and with conviction it would make it true? It was an independent survey. There was no bias.

What you still don't seem to get is that I'll be cheering on Rangers on Wednesday just as loudly as you. I'm not a bigot and I don't buy into the Old Firm rivalry. The only time I support Celtic over Rangers is in the SPL, and even then it's not with the passion I support both Celtic and Rangers in Europe.

I'm a Scotland supporter first and foremost. So yes, I'll be busy on Wednesday. I'll be celebrating if Rangers win. Try and get that through your head, eh? Just because you despise your old firm rivals it doesn't mean I do.

 

[Clydey]

Hmmm...I know about all these global fan base talks but seriously....are we missing out on teams like Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Milan, and Bayern Munich? It is hard for me to imagine Celtic and Rangers having a bigger fan base than Real Madrid or Barcelona regardless of the statistics some people pull from whatever survey others conduct.

I won't be surprise if any of these teams have a bigger fan base than Spurs either. To be honest, no one in Asia really support Celtic or Rangers much and you will probably find more Real or Barca supporters (Man U, Arse, Pool are the dominant ones in Asia) here, and you do know that Asia consists of a big portion of world's population. I doubt the survey was able to cover much of Asia so I guess it is pretty much skewed.

Back to the topic, I think SPL reacted strongly to their poor international performances since 2000 when they realised that they were no longer producing top quality Scottish players from their league and their efforts since then to revamp their system resulted in development of players like Hutton. I think most people would notice that for quite some time before Hutton and Gordon, the only player from SPL which came to EPL was Barry Ferguson so that indicates the lack of quality in SPL players during that period.

Also, the lack of $$ in the league aided the development their young players as they have a better chance of graduating from an SPL youth squad to 1st team as compared to EPL where youngsters constantly find great difficulty in moving up to the 1st team as there are so many foreign players being brought during to the excess $$ in the league.

I never said Celtic had a bigger fan base than Barcelona, Real and Milan. Those teams, along with Manchester United, are out in front in terms of fan support.

Also, Celtic have plenty of support in Asia, particularly Japan. After all, Nakamura plays for Celtic, their talisman. And I was referring more specifically to Celtic. The fact that Celtic have the support of most Catholics is one factor. The other is their European history. First British side to win the European Cup.

That actually has a bearing on fan base. In reality, Liverpool should be out in front of everyone. Their European history is superior to that of Man U, but they recently complained that they hadn't been marketed as well as Man U.

Your post doesn't in any way address mine. You went out of your way to contradict me by listing a bunch of teams who I have already concede have the largest fan bases in the world (exception of Juventus).

It's irrelevant whether or not you believe that Celtic have a massive fan base. It's a fact. We can argue over which is bigger: Celtic or Liverpool, Celtic or Benfica etc. That is something I legitimately could not say for certain. It is nonsense to say Celtic don't have a huge fan base, however.

Teams with a mediocre fan base do not hold the record for the most travelling support ever for a single game of football.

 

[haxman]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to General football as it has turned into an old firm bashing session?

 

[al_pacino]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to General football as it has turned into an old firm bashing session?

Too bloody right.

 

[GeneralBurk]

If you define it in terms of fan base size, Celtic would only be behind Man U globally, possibly just ahead of Liverpool or on a par. Rangers would probably be equivalent to Arsenal in terms of fan base, I'd estimate. There is also the issue of money generated from home games. Celtic get 60,000 at home and Rangers get around 47,000-50,000.


Now, you know thats not true about about Celtic globally,you been reading the Celtic view again,28 thousand against Aberdeen in the Scottish cup.Lawell stated you had 10 million fans world wide(spurs have 4.5 million apparently),thats simply not true!
Ibrox and Celtic park are only really full on european games or old firms games or title deciders.Many fans buy their season book to guarentee there old firm tickets.Thousands dont turn up for the rubbish games
As for the old firm in the Spl,give them five years and one of them would win it!

Celtic's average attendance in 2007/08 is 56,500 which is 93% capacity with the lowest attendance being 45000, while Rangers average 49000 which is 97% and the lowest attendance was 47000. Pretty impressive when those attendances include watching a non-league team like Gretna and cup games.

All very difficult to gauge with Tottenham given the pathetic capacity we currently provide at the Lane what the true attendance would be but I would be confident in the board's assertion of 50-60k for the new stadium. They will probably go with 60 as the step up in business costs to from 50 to 60 is relatively quite small.

 

[Clydey]

Tottenham should up their capacity. It's a massive help financially. Liverpool's poorer capacity doesn't do them any financial favours.

 

[GeneralBurk]

Glasgow is the third biggest city in Britain by population with about 2.3 million it is roughly the same as Birmingham wolverhapton West Bromwich and their surrounding areas put together and roughly the same as greater Manchester.
If Rangers and Celtic were in the English premier league they would still be massive.
They aren't big in Scotland because of the Scottish league they are big in spite of it, it holds them back and keeps them smaller and less competitive than they could be.

The population of Glasgow is less than 600,000 making it smaller than Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds and of course London. The rest of what you say is true and it is a sign of some the ignorance held by some of our fans that the reach of Rangers and Celtic far exceeds ours in a global sense.

 

[Yid-ol]

The population of Glasgow is less than 600,000 making it smaller than Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds and of course London. The rest of what you say is true and it is a sign of some the ignorance held by some of our fans that the reach of Rangers and Celtic far exceeds ours in a global sense.

but then how many of there fans suport them because they win just about every week, it is fair enough to say they have a big following now, as they do! but that is because they are an easy team to suport if you want a team that will win most games and challange for cups leagues and get into CL or Uefa cup every year without fail. Moving to a bigger league will get them more cash for some things, but i could see them losing out on fans and cash from winning cupsleague/ and getting into CL/Uefa cup as they woudlnt always get them, as i said before, look at how many chelsea fans came out of the woodwork once chelsea started winning, or arsenal won the league afew seasons back.... not saying its most of the fans but if they stoped being so dominent in a league i could see some fans stop taking an intrest in them

 

[Clydey]

Wouldn't happen. You think fans would leave because they weren't winning a league like the SPL? No chance. It's not that valuable.

 

[PT]

It does happen though. By definition. Take Leeds United's decline. Out of the Champions League semi finals to the third tier. Crowds of 40000 plus to under 20000 and on one recent occasion, 11000. Success drwas in the punter. Every club that achieves the right to grace the turf of Wembley can testify to that.

 

[Clydey]

That's different. Leaving the SPL for the the EPL is nothing like dropping from the CL semi-final to division 1. It's a massive step up.

 

[Blotto]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to General football as it has turned into an old firm bashing session?

seconded.

 

[Yid-ol]

That's different. Leaving the SPL for the the EPL is nothing like dropping from the CL semi-final to division 1. It's a massive step up.

but it might be...a poor season and battling agaisnt relegation could be enough to tip them over, could easly end up doing something like leeds, so to dismiss it is a bit blindsighted

Rangers wouldnt be winning all the time, and rangers fans would start getting annoyed at that and turn on the players (i have been to ibrox enough times to see this happen befor) also the huge worldwide fan base would start drying up and fans stop bothering to suport of follow due to them no longer an easy win team, still would have a large fan base worldwide, but no as big as it is now