Greatest player of the last twenty years..

[Green Valley]

Has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Training yes. Natural talent like that could easily only come around once every whatever many years.

Anyway Ronaldo is the biggest arsehole in the world so not him. Messi is amazing but is too young to be in these lists yet. Nobody else from this era comes close.

It just is Zidane and fatboy Ronaldo by such a long way. Rivaldo was never in their league, quality though he was. Maldini was pretty damn good but defensive ability will never be as good as pure attacking ability.

Fuck it, Im going to be patriotic and say Beckham

natural talent is the most overrated thing ever. Beckham didn't pop out of his mother ready to score 30 yard free kicks. His father trained him from a young age and through practice, training and dedication he became what he is today.

There was a documentary about C Ronaldo a few years back, and I remember vividly that his mother said he was never without a ball. He would come home eat for 5 minutes and the rest of the time he was out side playing football - each day, everyday...

And lol at disregarding evolution.

Usain Bolt>Michael Johnson

Federer>Sampras

And Ronnie O'sullivan rarely went to school and he spent all his time playing snooker when he should have been at school.

Also wtf at "god given talent"? Please... dont be so ridiculous. Just because you cannot comprehend why someone is as good as they are, it doesnt mean that their talent was given to them; believe me they earned it, especially at a skill sport like football.

 

[donny1013]

Training is paramount to any future success and serves to improve skills. But people are born with innate abilities, ie the intelligence of Einstein, or the voice of Michael Jackson for instance. How quickly a player can react on the pitch to a situation to use a piece of skill they have trained for is innate ability. I think there was also an article on Wayne Rooney's vision on the pitch, that is innate and most players just don't have it, however hard they train.

 

[WhiteStripe]

Also wtf at "god given talent"? Please... dont be so ridiculous. Just because you cannot comprehend why someone is as good as they are, it doesnt mean that their talent was given to them; believe me they earned it, especially at a skill sport like football.

This makes me chortle....how can you gloss over natural talent? If everyone was born with the exact same abilities, and everything was dependant on life experiance and hard work then the world would be one hell of a different place. Your opinion is incredibly closed minded, and a little sad.

 

[Green Valley]

This makes me chortle....how can you gloss over natural talent? If everyone was born with the exact same abilities, and everything was dependant on life experiance and hard work then the world would be one hell of a different place. Your opinion is incredibly closed minded, and a little sad.

You have misunderstood. I'm not saying that everyone is born with the same abilities. What I am saying that being good at football isn't a natural talent. Humans aren't born to be footballers, they play, they train and they're dedicated.

 

[Zuben]

You have misunderstood. I'm not saying that everyone is born with the same abilities. What I am saying that being good at football isn't a natural talent. Humans aren't born to be footballers, they play, they train and they're dedicated.

... meaning that any person, wherever they are are born, whoever they are can become a footballer as good as Zidane so long as they play, train and are dedicated?

 

[Green Valley]

Training is paramount to any future success and serves to improve skills. But people are born with innate abilities, ie the intelligence of Einstein, or the voice of Michael Jackson for instance. How quickly a player can react on the pitch to a situation to use a piece of skill they have trained for is innate ability. I think there was also an article on Wayne Rooney's vision on the pitch, that is innate and most players just don't have it, however hard they train.

What and you think this is natural talent? How can it be? Humans were not put on earth to play football. It is a skill they either get taught or they learn through trial and error.

Look at computer gamers. Their hand and eye coordination is amazing especially the top warcraft/starcraft players. They got good not through natural talent but through playing countless hours at their pc's.

We're born without any skills - some people have better natural abilities than others, but natural ability will only take you so far - especially in anything that requires skills.

 

[WhiteStripe]

You have misunderstood. I'm not saying that everyone is born with the same abilities. What I am saying that being good at football isn't a natural talent. Humans aren't born to be footballers, they play, they train and they're dedicated.

But that's where you are wrong, playing, training & dedication alone are no way the way Maradona or Zidane became the players they were. It was a large part of it, but no way the reason. Thye were born with certain attributes that made them perfectly suited to what they chose to do. Without these natural abilities, they would not have become the players they were.

I am not saying there is a football gene, that would be ludicrous. I am saying that some people have a certain makeup that makes them streets ahead when it comes to applying themselves to a specific vocation.

 

[donny1013]

But that's where you are wrong, playing, training & dedication alone are no way the way Maradona or Zidane became the players they were. It was a large part of it, but no way the reason. Thye were born with certain attributes that made them perfectly suited to what they chose to do. Without these natural abilities, they would not have become the players they were.

I am not saying there is a football gene, that would be ludicrous. I am saying that some people have a certain makeup that makes them streets ahead when it comes to applying themselves to a specific vocation.

Exactly

 

[llamafarmer]

This argument is going round in circles when in reality it's a big handful of both nature AND nurture that makes great athletes. When you get a kid with the perfect natural/genetic ability to be a good footballer and that kid grows up obsessed with football and works and works at it you have the magic combination that makes a Zidane or a Maradonna.

You might get a natural athlete who works hard at being a footballer and then you have Didier Zokora.

 

[Green Valley]

... meaning that any person, wherever they are are born, whoever they are can become a footballer as good as Zidane so long as they play, train and are dedicated?

A genius with exceptional natural abilities, unlike any who has never played football in his life starts playing football at 16 - would he become a pro?

A person who isn't exceptionally gifted as the person above. Starts playing football from 3 years old and is trained everyday to become a footballer - who is more likely to become this footballer?

 

[WhiteStripe]

GV, you're so closed minded it is unbelievable.

 

[Green Valley]

GV, you're so closed minded it is unbelievable.

Thanks mate :grin: but I believe it is you that is closed minded.

 

[WhiteStripe]

Thanks mate :grin: but I believe it is you that is closed minded.

No I'm not though. I acknowledge that dedication & application go a long way towards success. What you seem incabable of grasping is my view that without an element of natural ability in certain areas people like Zidane/Maradona/O'Sullivan would not be the standout players they are/have been.

 

[Green Valley]

This argument is going round in circles when in reality it's a big handful of both nature AND nurture that makes great athletes. When you get a kid with the perfect natural/genetic ability to be a good footballer and that kid grows up obsessed with football and works and works at it you have the magic combination that makes a Zidane or a Maradonna.

You might get a natural athlete who works hard at being a footballer and then you have Didier Zokora.

I kinda agree but I believe that nurture is a bigger factor than the natural ability.

 

[danielneeds]

I'd have to side with Green Valley on the nature/nurture debate. To take Maradona as an example, yes he may have had certain gifts from nature such as great foot-eye coordination and superb balance, but everything else comes from how he spent almost his whole childhood with a ball by his foot.

The other day I was talking to a guy he grew up on the same estate as Nani in Lisbon, and he was saying that the guy was unbelievable, not that he was significantly better than alot of the kids, just that he never stopped playing football on their street pitch, night or day, rain or shine he was there playing.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

:lol:

I go for lunch and come back and it is like Creation vs. Evolution in here.

Of course different people have different potentials based on their genes. Maradona may not be the most physically blessed player of all time, but there is clearly something about how his brain works (and I don't mean intelligence, I mean the responses of his brain to certain things in terms of neurophysiology) which he was likely born with. The likelihood is however that he is not the most neurophysiologically developed human in terms of what is needed to play football, especially as he clearly has better function of the left side of his body. The rest comes down to training, practice, watching, understanding etc.

Now is there likely to be someone in the current 6.5 billion people as equally gifted neurophysiologically? Almost certainly yes. In the future? Evolution would suggest that humans are getting physiologically and neurologically more advanced with each generation, so the likelihood is that their will be numerous people who are more 'naturally' gifted. Then it is down to having the dedication and training (which is likely to be far more advanced than Maradona had). Bigger insentives are there for players. The competition is higher.

So I would say that it is partly nature, partly nurture and partly the environment and the chances of someone better coming along is getting more and more likely. Again, I hope I am there to see it.

 

[WhiteStripe]

But Green valleys initial stance was that pretty much 0% was down to nature and pretty much 100% was down to nurture, which simply isn't the case. Thousands upon Thousands of Brazilian children grow up with the ball at their feet, working hard, loving the game, playing all day every day, yet only a handful ever make it through to be trully world class.

 

[Green Valley]

But Green valleys initial stance was that pretty much 0% was down to nature and pretty much 100% was down to nurture, which simply isn't the case. Thousands upon Thousands of Brazilian children grow up with the ball at their feet, working hard, loving the game, playing all day every day, yet only a handful ever make it through to be trully world class.

I actually said that it is a bit of both but is weighed significantly more towards the nurture side.

When I was a kid I grew up near Joe Cole and played with and against him a few times.

He isn't quick, he isn't that strong and he isn't tall. We also went to the same secondary school and he wasn't academically bright - yet he is arguably the most talented footballer England has produced. The reason for this is because he loved football more than anything. He used to play many hours a day from a very young age and he enjoyed playing more than anything. He always wanted to becomer a footballer and he played, trained and was extremely dedicated from an early age.

 

[WhiteStripe]

I actually said that it is a bit of both but is weighed significantly more towards the nurture side.

When I was a kid I grew up near Joe Cole and played with and against him a few times.

He isn't quick, he isn't that strong and he isn't tall. We also went to the same secondary school and he wasn't academically bright - yet he is arguably the most talented footballer England has produced. The reason for this is because he loved football more than anything. He used to play many hours a day from a very young age and he enjoyed playing more than anything. He always wanted to becomer a footballer and he played, trained and was extremely dedicated from an early age.

So this tells me that your views are somewhat influenced by a pre-formed opinion of someone who plays football.

I know what you are saying, and I think we agree, it's just the way you came across originally was almost not acknowledging any kind of natural talent.

 

[Legend10]

I can understand why strength, stamina, intelligence etc evolve and improve and obviously one day somebody will run faster than Usain Bolt.

But football ability is immeasurable and why does natural ability need to evolve? The Maradona, O'Sullivan and Jordan's of this world are simply born with incredible natural ability to do something and all of the coaching, training, kicking a ball every day does no more than hone that natural ability. Without the gift in the first place you can try as you might but you will never get to the level.

These guys are born with gifts that seperate them from all of their peers, their years of participation in the sport only hones there natural ability.

I believe if Maradona had never kicked a football in his life and you threw him one today he could instantly feel it in a different way, he could instantly do things with it that people who've played for years couldn't. The same with O'Sullivan if he hit a snooker ball for the first time ever today he would find it very very easy and automatic, he sees angles differently, distance differently, can instinctively apply spins. It's pure natural talent.