Has anyone heard from Jol?

[sloth]

But with the new master builder having far more say as to the type of bricks we buy, it would seem. :wink:

Would it indeed?

As far as I can see we've the same approach it's just Ramos seems more in tune with our DoF than Jol was. It's a crucial relationship that one. The one between site manager and builder. If that breaks down the projects on shakey ground.

 

[TheChosenOne]

... and Pleat employing too many "Ladies of the Night"

 

[Cat1989]

i just hope he dont go 2 chelsea if avram grant gets the sack...

 

[BoringOldFan]

According to his preface to The Inside Story he now gets a bonus as we won the Carling Cup. I think his severance package must include some kind of confidentiality clause as otherwise I'm sure Sky/Setanta/BBC would have signed him up or at least got him to comment on Spurs.

 

[paxtonyiddo]

Oh all this building talk is confusing me!! Good points though. It would seem that Ramos told levy that 2 compete with the top 4 our wage structure (which was 50k per week before he arrived i believe) needed reviewing hence woodgate coming in on a reputed 68k per week. Berbie to be offered similar too. So it seems ramos has already changed levy's outlook on this any1 care to confirm pls??

 

[Damian99]

He text me earlier.

 

[striebs]

See, the problem with that is you place far too much emphasis on the role Jol played which means when people like me dispute it we look as if we're having a go at the 'dearly departed'.

Here's what I mean, Jol was a very good coach, he was very good for Spurs and played a big role in two fifth place finishes and in getting us here today, but his was not the major role, he is not the architect, nor the site manager, but the head builder. He lay the foundations, but his were not the plans and nor was he reponsible for the over-seeing of them. Indeed, as a contractor it was felt he did a reasonable job but there were others better.

The architect is Chairman Levy (our dear leader).
The site manager was Pleat, then Arnesen and now Commolli.
The head builder was Martin Jol and is now Ramos.

As the architect, it is Levy’s vision (for good or ill) which drives this club forward. It was him who looked at Europe and decided we should follow that model. He looked at football finances and the way they were going and realised that to compete we had to invest money wisely and that meant scouts, training facilities, a DoF, specialist coaches, attention to detail etc. Levy appointed Pleat, then when he wanted someone with a wider range of contacts and connections and a better vision he went for Arnesen. As a direct result of that we got Jol in.

Now, I don’t want to underestimate the head builder, you can have the best architect in the world, an extremely competent site manager too, but if you’re builder’s incompetent you’re going to end up with a pile of shoddy bricks. On the other hand, if you employ a master builder your project can end up a gleaming palace beyond expectations. The trick is in employing the right staff. That’s Levy’s trick. That’s why Jol had to go and Ramos was brought in and while Jol was good, he wasn’t that good and while he played a part, it was not him who laid the foundations, but Levy. He continues to lay them.

So by the same token Ramos is just a master builder too and deserve less of the credit for Sunday than Commoli and Levy ?

I think your assumption that Levy is the architect is wrong . He doesn't have domain knowledge and is the one who pays the bills so must be the customer .

Hope those hired hands on the pitch don't get wind of how lowly and dispensible they are .

The directors of Man Utd , Arsenal and Liverpool aren't publicity seekers , not sure can say same about Levy .

 

[ParkLaneJon]

See, the problem with that is you place far too much emphasis on the role Jol played which means when people like me dispute it we look as if we're having a go at the 'dearly departed'.

Here's what I mean, Jol was a very good coach, he was very good for Spurs and played a big role in two fifth place finishes and in getting us here today, but his was not the major role, he is not the architect, nor the site manager, but the head builder. He lay the foundations, but his were not the plans and nor was he reponsible for the over-seeing of them. Indeed, as a contractor it was felt he did a reasonable job but there were others better.

The architect is Chairman Levy (our dear leader).
The site manager was Pleat, then Arnesen and now Commolli.
The head builder was Martin Jol and is now Ramos.

As the architect, it is Levy’s vision (for good or ill) which drives this club forward. It was him who looked at Europe and decided we should follow that model. He looked at football finances and the way they were going and realised that to compete we had to invest money wisely and that meant scouts, training facilities, a DoF, specialist coaches, attention to detail etc. Levy appointed Pleat, then when he wanted someone with a wider range of contacts and connections and a better vision he went for Arnesen. As a direct result of that we got Jol in.

Now, I don’t want to underestimate the head builder, you can have the best architect in the world, an extremely competent site manager too, but if you’re builder’s incompetent you’re going to end up with a pile of shoddy bricks. On the other hand, if you employ a master builder your project can end up a gleaming palace beyond expectations. The trick is in employing the right staff. That’s Levy’s trick. That’s why Jol had to go and Ramos was brought in and while Jol was good, he wasn’t that good and while he played a part, it was not him who laid the foundations, but Levy. He continues to lay them.

I disagree, and not that it matters, but I think this would be more accurate:

Levy/ENIC are the Client i.e. money men that has initiated the project and has a sight/idea of what they want to achieve.

Commolli is the Architect/Client's Representative - gives the client "expert" advice on how to spend his money, establishes a management structure and sets its objectives/deliverables.

Ramos is the Project Manager responsible for establishing organisation of the team in order to meet the objectives set.

Ledders is ther foreman and qualified first aider.

Mido and Reid used to run the site cafe, which has since shut down.

Berba is the Eastern European labourer that actually does all of the work.

 

[Bulletspur]

So by the same token Ramos is just a master builder too and deserve less of the credit for Sunday than Commoli and Levy ?

I think your assumption that Levy is the architect is wrong . He doesn't have domain knowledge and is the one who pays the bills so must be the customer .

Hope those hired hands on the pitch don't get wind of how lowly and dispensible they are .

The directors of Man Utd , Arsenal and Liverpool aren't publicity seekers , not sure can say same about Levy .

Bollocks! When Manu was being taken over all could hear about was Edwards and Glazier or what ever his name was. All your are hearing now is about Hicks from Liverpool and prior to him leaving, you would think that Dien ran the FA along with Arsenal (which he probably did).

What I am saying is that when a club is the news with regards to leaderhip / ownership issues etc, these people names come to front. Levy name came to the front (and rightly so) when the Ramosgate thing hit the headlines. Since things have quietened down abit, you hardly hear his name being called. At the moment it is Ramos (and again rightly so) is taking the applause of our recent success. So suggest that Levy is a publicity seeker is bollocks IMO. Thank your lucky stars that you have Levy if you care anything about the Spurs that is! :bang:

 

[idlepete]

Berba is the Eastern European labourer that actually does all of the work.

:lol: That's the only part of the whole construction analogy that holds up.

 

[Davey-O]

Martin Who?

















Only joking. No regrets about the ex... just wish it had ended a little sooner. Much happier with our new one though

 

[Blotto]

i just hope he dont go 2 chelsea if avram grant gets the sack...

No way! Oh dear I hope not!

 

[LadieK]

He rang me just now, he sends his love to you all.

 

[sloth]

I disagree, and not that it matters, but I think this would be more accurate:

Levy/ENIC are the Client i.e. money men that has initiated the project and has a sight/idea of what they want to achieve.

Commolli is the Architect/Client's Representative - gives the client "expert" advice on how to spend his money, establishes a management structure and sets its objectives/deliverables.

Ramos is the Project Manager responsible for establishing organisation of the team in order to meet the objectives set.

Ledders is ther foreman and qualified first aider.

Mido and Reid used to run the site cafe, which has since shut down.

Berba is the Eastern European labourer that actually does all of the work.

No mate, we're the clients. We've got the big ideas, we say we want this and we want that (while the architect pretends to listen and then goes and does what he wanted in the first place, lol) and by turning up or not, supporting or not we determine how big the club can be.

Your picture of Levy flies in the face of all sense. Who was it who decided we needed a continental structure at the club? Who, in the face of derision from press and fans, appointed a DoF? Who decided to get Arnesen in? How did an unknown Dutch fellow arrive at the club? Who gave him the job when the fans, in all their collective wisdom, howled for him to get someone else in? Who decided Ramos was better than Jol? Who went after him? The fans? The experts? The pundits? Or was it Levy? And who got him?

Levy's not directly responsible for performances on the pitch, but he's responsible for appointing the man who is. If you thought Jol was good, then Levy has to get the credit for appointing him. If you think Ramos is good then Levy gets the credit.

If you think Keegan's a poor appointment then who gets the stick? If you think Avram's bad, whose fault is that?

 

[SpurSince57]

He did give Jabba the Hut (AKA Paul Kemsley) the old Spanish archer, which is a definite plus.

And if Kemsley has been sent on a mission to totally fuck up the Barcodes, why, it's a stroke of pure genius! :grin:

 

[Bus-Conductor]

See, the problem with that is you place far too much emphasis on the role Jol played which means when people like me dispute it we look as if we're having a go at the 'dearly departed'.

Here's what I mean, Jol was a very good coach, he was very good for Spurs and played a big role in two fifth place finishes and in getting us here today, but his was not the major role, he is not the architect, nor the site manager, but the head builder. He lay the foundations, but his were not the plans and nor was he reponsible for the over-seeing of them. Indeed, as a contractor it was felt he did a reasonable job but there were others better.

The architect is Chairman Levy (our dear leader).
The site manager was Pleat, then Arnesen and now Commolli.
The head builder was Martin Jol and is now Ramos.

As the architect, it is Levy’s vision (for good or ill) which drives this club forward. It was him who looked at Europe and decided we should follow that model. He looked at football finances and the way they were going and realised that to compete we had to invest money wisely and that meant scouts, training facilities, a DoF, specialist coaches, attention to detail etc. Levy appointed Pleat, then when he wanted someone with a wider range of contacts and connections and a better vision he went for Arnesen. As a direct result of that we got Jol in.

Now, I don’t want to underestimate the head builder, you can have the best architect in the world, an extremely competent site manager too, but if you’re builder’s incompetent you’re going to end up with a pile of shoddy bricks. On the other hand, if you employ a master builder your project can end up a gleaming palace beyond expectations. The trick is in employing the right staff. That’s Levy’s trick. That’s why Jol had to go and Ramos was brought in and while Jol was good, he wasn’t that good and while he played a part, it was not him who laid the foundations, but Levy. He continues to lay them.

Just got round to this thread. I'd say that's a very reasonable analogy.

If you check my retrospetive thread or my ratings you'll notice that I too laid the biggest praise for our success sunday etc at levy's door.

It was his time, vision, accumen & courage (to ride the lemming storm at various times) which have "built this house".

 

[Destroyer]

He rang me just now, he sends his love to you all.

Why dont you take him a cake over ;-)

 

[SpurSince57]

Just got round to this thread. I'd say that's a very reasonable analogy.

If you check my retrospetive thread or my ratings you'll notice that I too laid the biggest praise for our success sunday etc at levy's door.

It was his time, vision, accumen & courage (to ride the lemming storm at various times) which have "built this house".

Courage to ride the lemming or any other kind of storm is the quality he hasn't shown. And what kind of vision was it that led him to give Hoddle more time (not to mention another £15m to piss away over the summer) and then fire him with no successor lined up?

 

[sloth]

Courage to ride the lemming or any other kind of storm is the quality he hasn't shown. And what kind of vision was it that led him to give Hoddle more time (not to mention another £15m to piss away over the summer) and then fire him with no successor lined up?

Yes, that was a mistake.

 

[wildheart]

Courage to ride the lemming or any other kind of storm is the quality he hasn't shown. And what kind of vision was it that led him to give Hoddle more time (not to mention another £15m to piss away over the summer) and then fire him with no successor lined up?

This is true, but he seems to have learnt his lessons and not made the same mistake again.

C'mon Hoddle had PLEAT as DOF???