Have we blown our chances to be a top side?

[dagraham]

After failing to finish above the arse under Harry and Chelsea winning the CL I thought we'd perhaps reached a watershed moment we'd look back on with regret for years.

After finishing behind them again last year I knew we were finally cooked.

I've said this more times than I care to remember on this forum but failing to invest in recent years had proven a massive waste of a golden opportunity than may not come again for some time.

We had several world class players, a good manager, were in a strong position with our rivals severely weakened. That is the time to invest, in order to safeguard your position.

Our time may come again but it will be a long wait imo, particularly if the stadium goes ahead and our transfer activity and investment stays minimal as a result.

And even if we do get a measure of success, I'm sure we will find a way of blowing it, with some sort of internal crisis or power struggle gone wrong.

We are a bit of a dysfunctional club unfortunately. All part of being a Spurs fan. *sigh*

 

[guy]

It was a disaster of epic proportions. I don't want to hear all that stuff about his wife's tv career. Hamburg are 14th in the Bundesliga, a mere 5 points above bottom spot. What a fucking waste.

Yep what a disaster. AVB apparently didnt rate him, probably because he's not 6'2 and rapid

Can we get him back in january? He'd be worth paying 10mill for just for his leadership on the pitch. He's the type of player we desperately need IMO, someone to drag the team through this tough patch and inspire on the pitch. Imagine what he'd do for Lamela and Eriksen as players

 

[Flashspur]

Another doomsday thread. Christ you need a bullet proof vest and a years supply of anti depressants to venture in here sometimes.

 

[arunspurs]

Another doomsday thread. Christ you need a bullet proof vest and a years supply of anti depressants to venture in here sometimes.

• Half the season gone, our team has scored just 8 goals athome
• We dont know our starting eleven
• We haven't beaten any team above us in the league
• Embarrassing losses against Liverpool, Westham (twice) & City
• Scored 3 goals in open play at lane
• Our summer signings for most part have been dire
• Sacked our manager & replaced him with another novice

If these dont depress you as a Spurs fan, I guess nothing will

 

[shelfboy68]

• Half the season gone, our team has scored just 8 goals athome
• We dont know our starting eleven
• We haven't beaten any team above us in the league
• Embarrassing losses against Liverpool, Westham (twice) & City
• Scored 3 goals in open play at lane
• Our summer signings for most part have been dire
• Sacked our manager & replaced him with another novice

If these dont depress you as a Spurs fan, I guess nothing will

The facts you mention make grim reading make no mistake I do feel that top four or winning anything is beyond us now for the foreseeable future.
It looks like levys blueprint for making a football club successful is not going to work as we lurch from crisis to crisis each season in fact unless we get an owner from the middle East or Russia we will never kick on and prove to be a great club.

 

[Flashspur]

• Half the season gone, our team has scored just 8 goals athome
• We dont know our starting eleven
• We haven't beaten any team above us in the league
• Embarrassing losses against Liverpool, Westham (twice) & City
• Scored 3 goals in open play at lane
• Our summer signings for most part have been dire
• Sacked our manager & replaced him with another novice

If these dont depress you as a Spurs fan, I guess nothing will

Like I said, you need a bullet proof vest and a years supply of anti depressants to venture in here sometimes

 

[Gbspurs]

Shows the importance of getting this bloody stadium built. For all of the good things we have had going on for the last 4 years, it doesn't take much to tear it all down and then what are we left with? No trophies, no new stadium.

I still don't think its "all over " for us. We have a lot of good young players that just need to find their feet. We desperately need a strong manager to bring them through this or someone who's tactics bring the best out of the players.

 

[TheGreenLily]

This has been discussed in many threads but I just wondered what the general consensus is here.

I can stomach a lot of things with Spurs but what I'm struggling to accept is in my opinion, we've blown our chance to become a truly big club or at least solidify our position as one.

By some miracle, partially players coming through, partially Levy's guidance and partially manager's. We've come an extremely long way over the last 10 years. Even though we'd come far, we still had giants ahead of us, the oil-rich Chelsea and then suddenly City were bought by similar owners.

It seemed impossible but we still got into the top 4. Liverpool, a once title challenging club, had somehow collapsed. City even through investment, missed out and there we were... Top 4, the Holy Grail.


However, through bad luck, our self-implosion... God knows what... 2010/2011 We failed to kick on from an excellent debut CL campaign. We had the squad, Arsenal were a declining force (mind the gap ring any bells?) Liverpool still lay dormant... Yet we still fucked it up.

I could accept that, just. Okay I thought... Arsenal are still able to be caught. So on rolled 2011/2012 and it was probably the worst of the lot. The luck we had for the Chavs to lift the CL and in essence make our 4th place finish redundant. Heart-wrenching, still fine margins... We were 1 point off of 3rd place Arsenal. The games we messed up there, the chances we will now rue. The 'Arry saga - Was this the turning point?

2012/2013 still I naively believed, Arsene's insistence of not purchasing world class players, Liverpool still a recovering giant... Bale's emergence as one of the best players in the league, it could still happen. But when that last of Bale's wonder goals went in against Sunderland, I knew... We all knew it was probably the end of our run. Two more points, and it all could of been so different.



Fast forward to where we are now... What next for our club? I genuinely don't see us even making Europa. The competition many of us have so regularly scorned. The competition which half a dozen seasons ago would have been such a marked achievement to qualify for.

Liverpool look to have finally clicked and have arguably the 3rd or 4th player in the world leading their line and a manager who albeit an idiot - knows how to set up a team. City, Chelsea, Arsenal - All too look nailed on for top 4, this is before we consider last year champions United and the emerging Everton (who I think will drop off).

How long is it before another billionaire bank rolls a team who isn't a regular in the top 6?

IMO, we have really blown it to establish ourselves as a title-challenging side. If we fail to get any European football this season, are Lloris, Vertonghen etc. going to stick around with Deadwood as manager whilst playing school boy football?

The comforting thing for me is that our youth teams are supposedly quality and we've got a plethora of top talents coming through. I feel we will always be knocking around top 6 but I believe we've blown our chance to push on past that.

We haven't just blown, we

it,

 

[hellava_tough]

It appears our goose is well and truly cooked

However...

It depends who our next managerial appointment is. If we hire someone who can give us some stability and, more importantly, continuity for 5 to 10 years then we can rebuild again

To this extent, if I were Levy and Co I'd scour the earth and bring in exactly the manager they want; the number one first choice. If that means making him the highest paid manager in the world, so be it. I truly believe there aren't too many managers that would turn down £10m a year and complete cart-blanche to do what they want at a club. Even if a club doesn't have Champions League football, at some point the financial incentives become too lucrative to turn down.

EDIT: Just had a quick look - every manager in the world bar one, gets paid under £10m a year. I really believe that the next manager should be our priority investment at the club:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Ham-boss-Allardyce-13th-Simeone-Mancini.html

 

[Blackcanary]

It appears our goose is well and truly cooked

However...

It depends who our next managerial appointment is. If we hire someone who can give us some stability and, more importantly, continuity for 5 to 10 years then we can rebuild again

To this extent, if I were Levy and Co I'd scour the earth and bring in exactly the manager they want; the number one first choice. If that means making him the highest paid manager in the world, so be it. I truly believe there aren't too many managers that would turn down £10m a year and complete cart-blanche to do what they want at a club. Even if a club doesn't have Champions League football, at some point the financial incentives become too lucrative to turn down.

Isn't the bit i've bolded one of the problems though? It appears that Levy has become a little too keen on involving himself in football decisions - would he be able to step back and give free rein to somebody? Would they get free rein on bringing players in or would they have to defer to the transfer committee? And, if not, who at the top of the game would take the job? We have a lot going for us but the perceived lack of autonomy and security must be huge negative factors.

 

[Parklane Block 34]

Lets go back to January 2011.

We are in the knock out stages in the champions league and riding high in the league. BUT.....

All Spurs fans and so called "pundits" were saying that we needed to bring in a "Top Striker" as we relying on Peter Crouch as a focal point. Nothing against Crouch he did a job for us but to take the next step it was pretty obvious we needed to improve.

Champions League
Attractive football
London
Truly World CLass players at the club. Bale, VDV, Modric

We had more going for us then than i can ever remmeber.

THIS WAS THE TIME TO BUILD.

We didnt.

Whos to blame? Redknapp who maybe thought what we had was enough. Levy? Who dodnt open up the purse string enough?

I dont know but back then we could of got a Suarez or a Aguero if we really pushed the boat out a little.

This was the moment for me. Its been gradually down hill from here.

Now we are left with the clusterfuck of a club we are now.

Only Spurs.

 

[hellava_tough]

Isn't the bit i've bolded one of the problems though? It appears that Levy has become a little too keen on involving himself in football decisions - would he be able to step back and give free rein to somebody? Would they get free rein on bringing players in or would they have to defer to the transfer committee? And, if not, who at the top of the game would take the job? We have a lot going for us but the perceived lack of autonomy and security must be huge negative factors.

Yeah, I can't argue with that BC. I suppose I'm just putting forward an 'ideal scenario' or a 'this is what I'd do'.

It's difficult to work out what's really going on behind the scenes, but if what we're told is correct, then you're right; Levy needs to shut the fuck up and let the footballing experts do their thing

 

[ShayLaB]

If by 'Big Team' you mean a Top 4 slot year after year then no...we haven't. We would be punching above our weight and finances.

The top four will be between:
- the two clubs with the wealthiest owners prepared to bank roll their teams.
- the two clubs with the largest stadiums
- Liverpool - bigger stadium than us and historically more successful.

A 71K stadium could change all that.

 

[dagraham]

If by 'Big Team' you mean a Top 4 slot year after year then no...we haven't. We would be punching above our weight and finances.

The top four will be between:
- the two clubs with the wealthiest owners prepared to bank roll their teams.
- the two clubs with the largest stadiums
- Liverpool - bigger stadium than us and historically more successful.

A 71K stadium could change all that.

The stadium is important but we also need to make sure we've got a team worthy of playing in it.

I think we'd struggle to fill a 71k stadium anyway. I know we have thousands on the waiting list but they won't all take the season tickets up. Also, the current season ticket holders may not all take them up, particularly if they think the larger capacity means they will be able to get tickets easily.

Then there's pricing. If we really had such an insatiable demand then surely we would sell out for cup games and EL games, but over the years that hasn't proven to be the case, even back under Jol when the EL was seen as more of an achievement for us.

I'm sure we'd fill it for big games but if we're back to mid-table then we will struggle a lot of the time imo.

 

[shelfboy68]

It appears our goose is well and truly cooked

However...

It depends who our next managerial appointment is. If we hire someone who can give us some stability and, more importantly, continuity for 5 to 10 years then we can rebuild again

To this extent, if I were Levy and Co I'd scour the earth and bring in exactly the manager they want; the number one first choice. If that means making him the highest paid manager in the world, so be it. I truly believe there aren't too many managers that would turn down £10m a year and complete cart-blanche to do what they want at a club. Even if a club doesn't have Champions League football, at some point the financial incentives become too lucrative to turn down.

EDIT: Just had a quick look - every manager in the world bar one, gets paid under £10m a year. I really believe that the next manager should be our priority investment at the club:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Ham-boss-Allardyce-13th-Simeone-Mancini.html

We haven't got 5-10 years to wait around fuck me by then West Ham and palace will be in the champions league.

 

[robin09]

No.

Look at Liverpool and Everton, they've both been in and then out of CL spots over the years. They've both started off well this season, and are in with a shout again.

Every season brings another opportunity.

 

[dagraham]

No.

Look at Liverpool and Everton, they've both been in and then out of CL spots over the years. They've both started off well this season, and are in with a shout again.

Every season brings another opportunity.

Liverpool and Everton are very different clubs to us though.

Everton know exactly where they are and cut their cloth accordingly, using the loan system and getting in a manager they can trust and allowing him to get on with it with no interference.

Liverpool have more resources than us and even if they didn't they are more prepared to invest in players than we are. We wouldn't be prepared to pay what it takes to get someone like Suarez unless we sold our best player to finance it.

 

[m*****73]

Have we blown our chance to be a top club? This season, certainly. Next season, probably (with Timmy in charge).

Will we ever be a top club? Yes, we can be, if the right decisions are taken (i.e. successful managerial appointment, correct structure, proper investment, new stadium)

Do I trust Levy to get it right? No.

 

[robin09]

Liverpool and Everton are very different clubs to us though.

Everton know exactly where they are and cut their cloth accordingly, using the loan system and getting in a manager they can trust and allowing him to get on with it with no interference.

Liverpool have more resources than us and even if they didn't they are more prepared to invest in players than we are. We wouldn't be prepared to pay what it takes to get someone like Suarez unless we sold our best player to finance it.

But even with all their investment, they've been in mid-table obscurity for, what, 4 years? My point was that things can change rapidly. You could be 10th one season, and challenging for CL the next. Just because we may end up having a shit season, doesn't have a great bearing on next season. To assume we've now missed the boat is crazy. We'll be there or thereabouts every season.

What you do need FOR A consistent challenge, is a settled environment though, and THAT is what we don't have at the moment.

 

[marion52]

It's not quite the end of the world and to bang on that we always sell our best players, well so do our very near neighbours but with their managerial stability they still challenge near the top of the table.
Selling Bale was a financial decision but buying 7 new players and integrating 2 more in Rose and Townsend was not a good idea. The team just needed tweaks not a complete makeover. So we have certainly blown it for this season but we still have good players and providing there's not a mass exodus in the summer and we play to their strengths and not just to the managers ego we can be up there again.