"he helped us finish 4th last year"

[handsomecake]

i see this phrase pop up in numerous threads(the whole summer long) in defense of any player who is being criticised.

we owe these players nothing
if they are not in form they should be dropped
the time is now
we cant wait for players to get better




djimi traore has a champions league winners medal.....................................and then got sold to charlton.some players are riding on the coat tails of last year but how long do they get a free pass for.............?

 

[SpurSince57]

Haven't you something better to do? Like post 'ITK' that you've invented?

 

[handsomecake]

Haven't you something better to do? Like post 'ITK' that you've invented?

play the ball not the man ss57.debate the post,dont debate me. i dont abuse any other posters on here.

 

[mil1lion]

It's more in response to the kneejerk reactions of people calling certain players shit and saying we should get rid of them based on their form. I agree we should drop players out of form, but they will return to form soon aswell, so we should get behind them as much as possible.

 

[handsomecake]

It's more in response to the kneejerk reactions of people calling certain players shit and saying we should get rid of them based on their form. I agree we should drop players out of form, but they will return to form soon aswell, so we should get behind them as much as possible.

ok fair point,however just to clarify im actually happy with a point tonight.but i hate when players become bulletproof based on previous achievments

 

[SpurSince57]

play the ball not the man ss57.debate the post,dont debate me. i dont abuse any other posters on here.

I'll play what the fuck I like, thanks.

We put in a great performance against a seriously decent side tonight, all some 'fans' can do is snivel, whinge and bitch. Pathetic.

 

[scat1620]

It's more in response to the kneejerk reactions of people calling certain players shit and saying we should get rid of them based on their form. I agree we should drop players out of form, but they will return to form soon aswell, so we should get behind them as much as possible.

Once again, I agree with every single word of a mil1lion post, including the motion to drop players who are out of form.

Kneejerking winds me up a treat. Why can't some people criticise a player's performance and express valid concerns about poor form without resorting to the kind of hyperbolic outrage that makes you wonder how they ever had enough intelligence to crawl out of the abortion bucket they were left in?

 

[EmperorKabir]

Give us some examples. Lennon sort of comes to mind, but in regards to the other threads on the forum, we can't just drop Lennon, because even on bad form, teams will put extra cover on him to free up other players. And he isn't even playing THAT badly, just badly compared to some of his awesome days.


Vedran on the other hand could be chucked out, replaced with Younes, and we'd forget all about him in a week.

Aside from that, I don't really think we are giving anyone else who plays any more than they deserve.

 

[EmperorKabir]

Once again, I agree with every single word of a mil1lion post, including the motion to drop players who are out of form.

Kneejerking winds me up a treat. Why can't some people criticise a player's performance and express valid concerns about poor form without resorting to the kind of hyperbolic outrage that makes you wonder how they ever had enough intelligence to crawl out of the abortion bucket they were left in?

repped. Granted, there ARE some stupid kneejerk threads, but it gets annoying that every single one is branded by the kneejerk brander brigade.

 

[chrissivad]

I'll play what the fuck I like, thanks.

We put in a great performance against a seriously decent side tonight, all some 'fans' can do is snivel, whinge and bitch. Pathetic.

wow....this is coming from someone that all i see you do is snivel, wine and bitch......

The guy has a point. It does get usd far too often with nothing else to back up.

What the player did last season, 2 years ago or 5 years ago is irrelevant when talking about their current form.

 

[whitelightwhiteheat]

It's the nature of the beast of the internet/forums, etc, that people will view performances and then comment on them!

Not everyone will agree.

There's no need to attack another person for their views though. That's just piss, frankly.

 

[JerryGarcia]

"he helped us finish 4th last year"

How do the players that were good enough a few months ago all of a sudden become shit? I just don't understand it. Do you really think that 3 or 4 years ago we would have got a point from the Bremen game? It seems to me that we're improving but not at a fast enough rate for some of you, I can only think that you're expectations are too high and are based on tabloid bollocks.

 

[SpurSince57]

wow....this is coming from someone that all i see you do is snivel, wine and bitch......

The guy has a point. It does get usd far too often with nothing else to back up.

What the player did last season, 2 years ago or 5 years ago is irrelevant when talking about their current form.

About what, or whom, Chris? Would you like to be specific? When did I last write off one of our players?

Yes, he does have a point…

 

[handsomecake]

How do the players that were good enough a few months ago all of a sudden become shit? I just don't understand it. Do you really think that 3 or 4 years ago we would have got a point from the Bremen game? It seems to me that we're improving but not at a fast enough rate for some of you, I can only think that you're expectations are too high and are based on tabloid bollocks.

im delighted with the result tonight. maybe if i posted this thread after a win it might get more credit.im guilty of posting it on the wrong night i suppose.

all im saying is that the argument " he helped us get to 4th place" is bandied about a lot without any other back up. its like a get out of jail free card. whats the statute of limitations on this "he helped us get to 4th place" .can we still use it on the last game of this season as it will still be true. maybe if some of the players were better we may have finished 3rd.

 

[handsomecake]

I'll play what the fuck I like, thanks.

We put in a great performance against a seriously decent side tonight, all some 'fans' can do is snivel, whinge and bitch. Pathetic.

ill say it again,im delighted with the result tonight.

 

[garyhopkins]

How do the players that were good enough a few months ago all of a sudden become shit? I just don't understand it. Do you really think that 3 or 4 years ago we would have got a point from the Bremen game? It seems to me that we're improving but not at a fast enough rate for some of you, I can only think that you're expectations are too high and are based on tabloid bollocks.

I totally agree.
Its been a difficult pre-season with the World Cup and then more internationals; not forgetting all our injuries. We need time to gel again. Some people on here want it now as if we are going to perform like Chelsea or Barcelona week in week out.
Well, unfortunately, that doesn't happen. Every week there are just as many losers as winners. We are slowly becoming a more regular winner but that's obviously a little slow for some. I'm really happy we got a point away from home in our first CL game. Great stuff.

 

[scat1620]

EDIT - sorry EK, quoted your post as it was directly after mine and thought you were replying to me in the context of my post; didn't realise you were talking to the OP! My list still stands, but it looks like we're in agreement rather than arguing different views!

Give us some examples.

Players who I have seen a significant-enough-for-me-to-notice-it minority calling for them to be bombed out the club and other such massively exaggerated criticism in recent weeks include:

Corluka - for what it's worth, I agree he's not been up to scratch so far this season, but he has otherwise been a very good player for us since he joined, and last season was a mainstay of a defence that performed as well as any Spurs defence I can remember in the last 15 years.

Palacios - laughable, just laughable that anyone wouldn't want him around our squad, even if a period of poor form suggests that he shouldn't be a guaranteed starter.

Jenas - what more needs to be said? Even his most vocal supporters on SC don't claim him to be the absolute answer to our midfield prayers, yet his most vocal detractors would have him ejected from WHL by catapult if they could.

Keane - again, this is an example where I myself am severely concerned about the player's form, and I do think that Keane might be finished as a player who we can rely on to put in the performances we need up top - I still hold the (faint) hope that he can regain his form for us though. What I object to is the attitude from people who think he's finished (fair enough) who can't help pouring really spiteful and vicious criticism at him - even if people no longer rate Keane, he has done more than enough in a Spurs shirt to earn our respect as supporters and when he eventually leaves Spurs it should be with our best wishes and not with the eagerness that some people have to stick the boot in on him at any given opportunity.

Honourable mentions to BAE, Pav and Crouch as well. It's not the criticism I object to; it's the manner in which it's done, and the relish with which some people seem to take in getting the opportunity to have a dig at those who play in our club's shirt.

 

[JerryGarcia]

im delighted with the result tonight. maybe if i posted this thread after a win it might get more credit.im guilty of posting it on the wrong night i suppose.

all im saying is that the argument " he helped us get to 4th place" is bandied about a lot without any other back up. its like a get out of jail free card. whats the statute of limitations on this "he helped us get to 4th place" .can we still use it on the last game of this season as it will still be true. maybe if some of the players were better we may have finished 3rd.

Ok I see what you're saying but in most cases it's a valid argument. We didn't finnish fourth by accident, we had to use our whole squad at the end of last season and they played very well. As an example, Corluka at 23 was the absolute bollocks yet at 24 he's not good enough. I would agree that he's not been good enough so far this season but he had an injury and needs games to get back to his old self.

At worst "He helped us get fourth" is a cliche but it's not as bad as "Corluka/Jenas/Palacios/Cudicini is shit" which gets repeated over and over again on here.

 

[EmperorKabir]

EDIT - sorry EK, quoted your post as it was directly after mine and thought you were replying to me in the context of my post; didn't realise you were talking to the OP! My list still stands, but it looks like we're in agreement rather than arguing different views!



Players who I have seen a significant-enough-for-me-to-notice-it minority calling for them to be bombed out the club and other such massively exaggerated criticism in recent weeks include:

Corluka - for what it's worth, I agree he's not been up to scratch so far this season, but he has otherwise been a very good player for us since he joined, and last season was a mainstay of a defence that performed as well as any Spurs defence I can remember in the last 15 years.

Palacios - laughable, just laughable that anyone wouldn't want him around our squad, even if a period of poor form suggests that he shouldn't be a guaranteed starter.

Jenas - what more needs to be said? Even his most vocal supporters on SC don't claim him to be the absolute answer to our midfield prayers, yet his most vocal detractors would have him ejected from WHL by catapult if they could.

Keane - again, this is an example where I myself am severely concerned about the player's form, and I do think that Keane might be finished as a player who we can rely on to put in the performances we need up top - I still hold the (faint) hope that he can regain his form for us though. What I object to is the attitude from people who think he's finished (fair enough) who can't help pouring really spiteful and vicious criticism at him - even if people no longer rate Keane, he has done more than enough in a Spurs shirt to earn our respect as supporters and when he eventually leaves Spurs it should be with our best wishes and not with the eagerness that some people have to stick the boot in on him at any given opportunity.

Honourable mentions to BAE, Pav and Crouch as well. It's not the criticism I object to; it's the manner in which it's done, and the relish with which some people seem to take in getting the opportunity to have a dig at those who play in our club's shirt.

going to liverpool, on a personal level, was heartbreaking treachery. In a way it's almost poetic that he came back from such a horrible scummy club with the worst manager ever having lost his shine. Not that I want him to be bad for us in a Spurs shirt, but his legend status, in my eyes, has gone because of the sudden abandonment to the scouse.

Also, in fairness to the OP, yes, some of these players may regain form, but with no guarantee, and we can't waste time hoping they get better. We need good players immediately. Getting 4th and having a good CL run, (our aims this season) are looking very difficult otherwise.

 

[StartingPrice]

I don't think any player is undroppable.

Neither Lennon nor Corluka is on form. I think Bentley has far more to show at the Lane, and playing with an overlapping full-back could look very good for us.

This is just one example.

Wilson can be dropped if his form is bad. The only thing I don't like is when folk are abusive, especially about Wilson. It's not just that 'he helped us to fourth', it is the fact that he has been through an absolute nightmare of a time - one I really wuoldn't wish on my worst enemy. I don't see why some posters aren't content with stating the fact that his form is off, but have to resort to calling him all of the Fing Bs under the Sun. It's not like he is doing it on purpose or inventing a half-assed excuse, is it!