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Ian Ladyman: What if Rudiger was wrong?

popstar7

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2012
3,036
9,367
"And, as a consequence, we must have a look at ourselves and how quickly once again the modern world rushed to judgment."

I look forward to the Mail having a good look at itself before leading the crusade against the modern plague of rushing to judgement.
 

whitesocks

The past means nothing. This is a message for life
Jan 16, 2014
4,652
5,738
The Daily Mail would love the Tories to start rolling back the laws on discrimination.
Rudiger apparently crying wolf (again) in front of millions helps their cause.
 

Armstrong_11

Spurs makes me happy, you... not so much :)
Aug 3, 2011
8,614
19,294
read the title....

i thot the joke was...

"I an Ladyman."

nevermind....
 

wakefieldyid

SC Supporter
Jun 13, 2006
1,560
1,591
Decent article that have to laugh that it's been printed in the Mail though.
The Guardian printed a similar article a couple of days ago, drawing attention to the draconian penalties (long suspensions etc.) imposed on various individuals accused of having made racist comments, without their accusers having to provide even the most basic evidence. As I read it, the law is based on the principle that if a player thinks he's heard racist abuse, the authorities pretty much have to take the accusations at face value. On this basis, Spurs will have to wait until Hell freezes over before they can expect the authorities to admit they might have got it wrong.
 

Geyzer Soze

Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd
Aug 16, 2010
26,056
63,362
The Guardian printed a similar article a couple of days ago, drawing attention to the draconian penalties (long suspensions etc.) imposed on various individuals accused of having made racist comments, without their accusers having to provide even the most basic evidence. As I read it, the law is based on the principle that if a player thinks he's heard racist abuse, the authorities pretty much have to take the accusations at face value. On this basis, Spurs will have to wait until Hell freezes over before they can expect the authorities to admit they might have got it wrong.
As in football as in life. One thing that doesn't need evidence these days is a racism allegation

And dare to suggest that evidence and caution is required... 'Racist!!! You're sticking up for a racist!!! You're racist!!!'

Getting sick of it tbh
 

SpunkyBackpack

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2005
7,831
9,372
The Guardian printed a similar article a couple of days ago, drawing attention to the draconian penalties (long suspensions etc.) imposed on various individuals accused of having made racist comments, without their accusers having to provide even the most basic evidence. As I read it, the law is based on the principle that if a player thinks he's heard racist abuse, the authorities pretty much have to take the accusations at face value. On this basis, Spurs will have to wait until Hell freezes over before they can expect the authorities to admit they might have got it wrong.

But the 'authorities' haven't got anything to take back or admit. We haven't been charged or fined as far as i know? Just investigated, as it should be.
 

Dennism

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2006
1,231
2,722
But the 'authorities' haven't got anything to take back or admit. We haven't been charged or fined as far as i know? Just investigated, as it should be.
The current view presented in the media is that there has been racism by a Tottenham fan. It would be fair for the police to make an official statement that no evidence has been found at this stage. Otherwise it will be used as a weapon against us by the racist fans of other clubs (Chelsea, West Ham) who are always trying to undermine us.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,634
88,612
Does it matter if it was wrong? We don't want to discourage people calling discrimination out. If there's no evidence, then there's no evidence. Draw a line under it and move on. We don't need an apology or anything.

The whole point to this, and to things like #MeToo and what not, is to wholesale change casual attitudes of discrimination/exploitation/abuse. To challenge even the smallest example of prejudice (which the apologists would call "banter"), in order to put a permanent end to the extremes (slavery, rape, genocide etc).

So fuck the Daily Mail's thinly veiled attempt to demonise Rudiger and the likes of Neville and MOTD for daring to have a pop at the politicians. The mail are speaking to their reader base, trying to maintain the Nationalist narrative set by themselves and the goverment they support.
 

wakefieldyid

SC Supporter
Jun 13, 2006
1,560
1,591
Does it matter if it was wrong? We don't want to discourage people calling discrimination out. If there's no evidence, then there's no evidence. Draw a line under it and move on. We don't need an apology or anything.
It matters hugely if it's not corrected, in that we'll see an escalation in sanctions against the club, if only because politicians enjoy being seen to call for action. The media narrative is that Spurs fans were guilty of racially abusing Rudiger within minutes of the incident, so who's going to stick up for us the next time someone thinks he's heard something?
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,634
88,612
It matters hugely if it's not corrected, in that we'll see an escalation in sanctions against the club, if only because politicians enjoy being seen to call for action. The media narrative is that Spurs fans were guilty of racially abusing Rudiger within minutes of the incident, so who's going to stick up for us the next time someone thinks he's heard something?
What sanctions are being made? What's being "corrected"?
 

popstar7

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2012
3,036
9,367
The Guardian printed a similar article a couple of days ago, drawing attention to the draconian penalties (long suspensions etc.) imposed on various individuals accused of having made racist comments, without their accusers having to provide even the most basic evidence. As I read it, the law is based on the principle that if a player thinks he's heard racist abuse, the authorities pretty much have to take the accusations at face value. On this basis, Spurs will have to wait until Hell freezes over before they can expect the authorities to admit they might have got it wrong.

I’d appreciate a link to this article, because it sounds like complete bullshit,
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,408
34,139
when shit is thrown at something it usually sticks, the allegation is in the public domain and mindset now
 

mightyspur

Now with lovely smooth balls
Aug 21, 2014
9,796
27,099
I think he took the boos as monkey chants.
Either that or he misheard the "who who who" from a section singing, who let the Yids out as monkey chants. I don't think he made it up to deflect from his reaction to Son and the red card like some people are suggesting.

At the end of the day there was a lot of noise and he heard something that sounded like monkey chants. There is a possibility that he actually did hear that, but it doesn't look likely evidence will be found to corroborate what he thought he heard and the most likely explanation is he misheard something that sounded like monkey noises. He shouldn't be made to apologise for reporting what he thought he heard, although joint statement from Chelsea and Tottenham would help
 

@WHL

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2016
197
364
Does it matter if it was wrong? We don't want to discourage people calling discrimination out. If there's no evidence, then there's no evidence. Draw a line under it and move on. We don't need an apology or anything.

The whole point to this, and to things like #MeToo and what not, is to wholesale change casual attitudes of discrimination/exploitation/abuse. To challenge even the smallest example of prejudice (which the apologists would call "banter"), in order to put a permanent end to the extremes (slavery, rape, genocide etc).

So fuck the Daily Mail's thinly veiled attempt to demonise Rudiger and the likes of Neville and MOTD for daring to have a pop at the politicians. The mail are speaking to their reader base, trying to maintain the Nationalist narrative set by themselves and the goverment they support.
So in your instance if a woman accuses a man of rape then we should take her word otherwise other woman may not come forward?
give me a break, if he accuses someone of being racist and it is incorrect then he should serve a ban like the person he is accusing would have to serve.
It still goes on and is disgusting but does not mean anyone can be called out on in without any evidence.
 

mightyspur

Now with lovely smooth balls
Aug 21, 2014
9,796
27,099
So in your instance if a woman accuses a man of rape then we should take her word otherwise other woman may not come forward?
give me a break, if he accuses someone of being racist and it is incorrect then he should serve a ban like the person he is accusing would have to serve.
It still goes on and is disgusting but does not mean anyone can be called out on in without any evidence.
You're comparing apples with oranges. Rape is a physical act with evidence.

You can't disprove what Rudiger thought he heard. You don't ban a player for reporting what he thought were racist chants because evidence can't be found
 

@WHL

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2016
197
364
You're comparing apples with oranges. Rape is a physical act with evidence.

You can't disprove what Rudiger thought he heard. You don't ban a player for reporting what he thought were racist chants because evidence can't be found
With all the cameras and stewards something would have been caught like at every other ground it has happened at, we can not take his word as proof without evidence, so it’s a free pass for anyone to say they heard 1 person out of 60000 make a racist remake or noise? What a future we have ?
 

mightyspur

Now with lovely smooth balls
Aug 21, 2014
9,796
27,099
With all the cameras and stewards something would have been caught like at every other ground it has happened at, we can not take his word as proof without evidence, so it’s a free pass for anyone to say they heard 1 person out of 60000 make a racist remake or noise? What a future we have ?
Yeah, we can't take his word as proof without evidence in terms of the actual racist chant being made, which is why (so far) no fan has been arrested for making racist remarks, but just because no evidence is found to back up his assertion it doesn't automatically mean he has made it all up and should be punished. He thought he heard something and you have to take that at face value. As I previously mentioned my suspicion is he heard something like "who who who" or "boo", so he is (most likely) mistaken, but you don't punish a player for reporting it.
 
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