Interesting stat Jol/Burkinshaw/Nicholson

[Norwegian_YId]

League positions:


Keith Birkinshaw
1977 22nd
1978 25th(3rd in division 2)
1979 11th
1980 14th
1981 10th
1982 4th
1983 4th
1984 8th

Average league position= 12th(10th if you don't count the season in Div2)




Bill Nicholson:

1959 18th
1960 3rd
1961 1st
1962 3rd
1963 2nd
1964 4th
1965 6th
1966 8th
1967 3rd
1968 7th
1969 6th
1970 11th
1971 3rd
1972 6th
1973 8th
1974 11th

Average league position= 6th





Martin Jol:

2005 9th
2006 5th
2007 5th

Average league position= 6th


Not including the poor start of this season, but funnily enough people wanted Jol out already in 06/07. This stat also includes the 04/05 season which was pretty crap until Santini quit and Jol took over

 

[thejames]

I would like to see a Premiership table consisting solely of the games between JR taking over and the Cup win. Don't know if anyone has the capability/time to do that though?

 

[Kendall]

nicholson would've been sacked by '66 :up:

 

[Bingy]

Yes, we were all aware how well Jol had done....but there was too much at stake (to his detriment) and he had to move over for Ramos.

I just hope that Ramos will take the 'bull by the horns' and propell us up to the next level
....the one where the rewards are greater....we should assume! COYS!

 

[General Levy]

wtf is interesting about this?

 

[Bulletspur]

This is both meaningless and misleading.

When Santini left we were in a good enough positon, main reason, as Mourhino said, teams found it hard to score against us because we parked the bus etc.........

So you are comparing the average of two seasons and a half from Jol, to several from both Burkinshaw and Nicholson, right!

Where are the other comparisons like venables, Pleats shreeve etc?

Talk about selective accounting!

 

[AlexBenjamin]

League positions:

Bill Nicholson:

1959 18th
1960 3rd
1961 1st
1962 3rd
1963 2nd
1964 4th
1965 6th
1966 8th
1967 3rd
1968 7th
1969 6th
1970 11th
1971 3rd
1972 6th
1973 8th
1974 11th

Average league position= 6th

If Ramos is anything like Nicholson then next season should be wicked :up:

 

[Norwegian_YId]

Yes, we were all aware how well Jol had done....but there was too much at stake (to his detriment) and he had to move over for Ramos.

I just hope that Ramos will take the 'bull by the horns' and propell us up to the next level
....the one where the rewards are greater....we should assume! COYS!

I think it was the right decision in the end to replace Jol with Ramos. I just find it unbelieveable that people were calling Jol a "clueless muppet", "useless dutch ****" etc.

 

[Norwegian_YId]

This is both meaningless and misleading.

When Santini left we were in a good enough positon, main reason, as Mourhino said, teams found it hard to score against us because we parked the bus etc.........

When Jol took over for Santini we were a midtable side and we hadn't finished better than 7th in the league since the 89/90 season.

When Bill Nicholson took over for Jimmy Anderson we had just finished 3rd in the league in Anderson's last season.


Don't get me wrong, I think Bill Nicholson is the greatest of them all(I usually wear a Bill Nick t-shirt to games), but it makes me laugh when people talk about how shit we are now and how great we used to be. Finishing 11th isn't far from our overall average in the top division. Of course we should aim better, but people seem to think that everything was so much better in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Yes, it was a little bit better, but the difference aint as big as some people seem to think

 

[C0YS]

If Ramos is anything like Nicholson then next season should be wicked :up:

ahh...times have changed Im afraid!!

 

[C0YS]

When Jol took over for Santini we were a midtable side and we hadn't finished better than 7th in the league since the 89/90 season.

When Bill Nicholson took over for Jimmy Anderson we had just finished 3rd in the league in Anderson's last season.


Don't get me wrong, I think Bill Nicholson is the greatest of them all(I usually wear a Bill Nick t-shirt to games), but it makes me laugh when people talk about how shit we are now and how great we used to be. Finishing 11th isn't far from our overall average in the top division. Of course we should aim better, but people seem to think that everything was so much better in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Yes, it was a little bit better, but the difference aint as big as some people seem to think

too true...well 60s we won a cup every 3ish years in avarage so that was better. early 70s where the same but late 70s where dreadfull...and 80s where at times inconsistent. however those in terms of trophies are are best years no doubt. but yes people do overexagirate the difference. But NOW we are miles better then we were in the late 90s and early 2000s yet we seem to have a huge short memory span

 

[Dillspur]

to small of a sample size

 

[AngerManagement]

Also black and white stats like these do not tell the whole story. I mean a manager could finish 3rd with a team that had the potential to win the league whilst another could lead a relegation battle team (in terms of quality) to the saftey of mid table.

Who did the better job?

So its not just where you finish, its where you finish in releation to the quality of players and team you have and their potential for success.

 

[SpurOfGlory]

I would like to see a Premiership table consisting solely of the games between JR taking over and the Cup win. Don't know if anyone has the capability/time to do that though?

Considering how we faded since the cup win and took time to adapt to his changes it's pretty decent,we would be 7th if you look at every teams results since Ramos took over,I saw the table elsewhere so thats not too bad,maybe someone can dig it up.

As for all time managers records look at this and it says it all,Ramos has taken four months to win a trophy and despite such a lacklustre finish for obvious reasons will really show us what he has next season.

Top 10 managers of the team's history
Based on win % in all competitions ManagerYearsPlayedWonWin %1Arthur Turner1942 - 1946,55.10%David Pleat ¹1986 - 1987,50.42%Bill Nicholson1958 - 1974,49.03%Arthur Rowe1949 - 1955,47.70%Jimmy Anderson1955 - 1958,47.05%Martin Jol ²2004 - 2007,45.27%Juande Ramos2007 - Present45.24%Doug Livermore
Ray Clemence1992 - 1993,45.09%Peter Shreeves1984 - 1986 & 1991 ,44.63%Jack Tresadern1935 - 1938,44.52%

 

[Norwegian_YId]

Also black and white stats like these do not tell the whole story. I mean a manager could finish 3rd with a team that had the potential to win the league whilst another could lead a relegation battle team (in terms of quality) to the saftey of mid table.

Who did the better job?

So its not just where you finish, its where you finish in releation to the quality of players and team you have and their potential for success.

Of course!

But Spurs fans(including myself) seem to think that our team was so much better in the 60's, 70's and 80's. For example you've got the team who finished 11th in 1974 with Bill Nick as manager. Pat Jennings, Cyril Knowles, Mike England, Martin Peters, Martin Chivers, Alan Gilzean, Ralph Coates, Phil Beal etc. These guys are all considered as Spurs legends today.

 

[AngerManagement]

Of course!

But Spurs fans(including myself) seem to think that our team was so much better in the 60's, 70's and 80's. For example you've got the team who finished 11th in 1974 with Bill Nick as manager. Pat Jennings, Cyril Knowles, Mike England, Martin Peters, Martin Chivers, Alan Gilzean, Ralph Coates, Phil Beal etc. These guys are all considered as Spurs legends today.

Well im not old enough to have ever seen the teams from the 60s and 70s (or 80s for that matter)

But what I will say is football is a completely differnt game now to what it was 15 years ago (let alone in them times)

So much so I dont personally feel a direct comparison between the two is worth while.

The money in the game since the introduction of Sky, the influx of foreign talent, the concept of sport science and improved training and nutrition techinques.

I feel with all these new varibles involved in football what made a good manager back then may not be the same as what makes a good manager now

i.e. money issues, differing realities in terms man management (they are all millionaires now), time constraights and increased pressure for instant success, the issue of speed and strength being more effective then skill and touch (or the perception of this) and so on.

 

[ollie_spurs]

this is rubbish.

 

[Reece]

If Ramos is anything like Nicholson then next season should be wicked :up:

then again if he's like burkinshaw we'll be in for tears lol

 

[SpurSince57]

Considering how we faded since the cup win and took time to adapt to his changes it's pretty decent,we would be 7th if you look at every teams results since Ramos took over,I saw the table elsewhere so thats not too bad,maybe someone can dig it up.

As for all time managers records look at this and it says it all,Ramos has taken four months to win a trophy and despite such a lacklustre finish for obvious reasons will really show us what he has next season.

Top 10 managers of the team's history
Based on win % in all competitions ManagerYearsPlayedWonWin %1Arthur Turner1942 - 1946,55.10%David Pleat ¹1986 - 1987,50.42%Bill Nicholson1958 - 1974,49.03%Arthur Rowe1949 - 1955,47.70%Jimmy Anderson1955 - 1958,47.05%Martin Jol ²2004 - 2007,45.27%Juande Ramos2007 - Present45.24%Doug Livermore
Ray Clemence1992 - 1993,45.09%Peter Shreeves1984 - 1986 & 1991 ,44.63%Jack Tresadern1935 - 1938,44.52%

It's pointless including Turner, as he was manager during WWII when no proper football was being played. When Tresadern was manager we were in the old Division Two.

 

[sim0n]

If Ramos is anything like Nicholson then next season should be wicked :up:

wOO hOO!! wE'RE 3RD NEXT SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!

:hump: