Interesting stat Jol/Burkinshaw/Nicholson

[Stoof]

Still absolutely appalls me to see people bad-mouthing Jol - especially when they happen to be a breed of clueless moron. Lucky there's only a few here, and they'll probably keel over for wearing a jumper, hat, coat and scarf in this unseasonably warm weather.

Ramos has it all to do next season, but I don't help but feel a bit 'meh' about it all at the moment. Maybe it's end of season blues - but I definitely didn't feel like this last year. And we even won a cup! It all seems so long ago, and I feel so terribly ungrateful.

 

[Peters]

The managers table from Topspurs site below is the best
comparison of performance, by points per season.

http://www.topspurs.com/thfc-managers-index.htm

1. Shreeve 64
2. Pleat 64
9. Jol 57
13. Ramos 55
26 Ardiles 44

To put it into perspective we actually needed 77 points this season for Champions League qualification - that level of consistency is something that few of our managers have achieved for any sustained length of time.

Ramos has an enormous task to consistently top our own all time managers table at 65 points per season, but that would be failure! I believe that the 77 CL qualification points requirement will increase as the top 4 become richer and stronger.

Ramos deserves the full support of the fans - he will certainly need it!

 

[muffwah]

wtf is interesting about this?

I'm with this guy. Obviously you didn't mention that we were in the bottom 3 when Jol left

 

[Norwegian_YId]

I'm with this guy. Obviously you didn't mention that we were in the bottom 3 when Jol left

As a matter of fact, I did mention this.

IIRC we were in the bottom 3 when Nicholson resigned as well

 

[camaj]

I'm with this guy. Obviously you didn't mention that we were in the bottom 3 when Jol left

How does that matter?

Peters is spot on, some people have a distorted sense of history. Jol was one of our best managers ever and people were calling for his head last season because he got off to a bad start. Even if Ramos is one of the best we've had he'll still be a failure.

One great stat I remember is if you look at the games Jol was in charge for in his first season, we would have finished 4th.

 

[DOX]

Yes, very interesting.






Not.

 

[TheBlueRooster]

How does that matter?

Peters is spot on, some people have a distorted sense of history. Jol was one of our best managers ever and people were calling for his head last season because he got off to a bad start. Even if Ramos is one of the best we've had he'll still be a failure.

One great stat I remember is if you look at the games Jol was in charge for in his first season, we would have finished 4th.

I think people were getting annoyed because he should have done better, when we finished fifth the first time we all know we could and should have finished fourth. The second time we had a good run in after a poor start, under Jol we didn't really improve enough.

I loved the Guy but felt he just didn't have what it takes to move us on. I'm shouting that Ramos is going to be our saviour as it looks like another "transition" season coming up.

 

[DC_Boy]

I think over the last 100 years our average position is something like 12th/13th

in the prem years about 10th/11th?

certainly it is higher than our historical average

we had a golden period between 60/63 that has skewed a lot of people's expectations

the 74 team was aging - people like Peters Knowles Gilzean Coates England etc in decline or about to go into decline - still made the UEEFA final tho

Billy Nick also was getting tired of management - the Feyenoord final being one of the things that led him to retiring

Jol was a good Spurs manager - but as he never won anything he won't go down as one of the greats

 

[Norwegian_YId]

when we finished fifth the first time we all know we could and should have finished fourth.

Are you seriously saying that we had a better squad than arsenal in 05/06? arsenal even made it to the CL final while we had to play regulary with players such as Stalteri, Lee, Mido and Dawson.

I know we were close, but if we had managed to finish 4th that season it would've been a massive achievement and not expected at all.

 

[TheBlueRooster]

Are you seriously saying that we had a better squad than arsenal in 05/06? arsenal even made it to the CL final while we had to play regulary with players such as Stalteri, Lee, Mido and Dawson.

I know we were close, but if we had managed to finish 4th that season it would've been a massive achievement and not expected at all.

No I'm not saying that we had a better squad, I'm saying that we finished fifth when we should have finished fourth, bollocks to what the scum did, we lost and drew to the same old teams Fulham, Sunderland etc. But we ended up blaming it on food poisoning on the last day of the season.

IMO that was Jol's glory, that first 5th place but it should have been a whole lot more.

 

[SpurSince57]

No I'm not saying that we had a better squad, I'm saying that we finished fifth when we should have finished fourth, bollocks to what the scum did, we lost and drew to the same old teams Fulham, Sunderland etc. But we ended up blaming it on food poisoning on the last day of the season.

IMO that was Jol's glory, that first 5th place but it should have been a whole lot more.

We probably should have had it wrapped up, but what did for us was losing Mido to the ACN and Davids and Tainio to injury all round about the same time—and neither Mido nor Super Ed were really the same players afterwards. Ledley having his foot crunched by that **** Ferguson hardly helped, either.

But really, no-one expected Arsenal to slump quite so badly, and if you'd promised a European place at the start of the season you'd have had your hand bitten off.

 

[THFC4EUROPE]

This thread is pointless
Does everyone know Jol has gone.
MOVE ON for fucks sake

 

[Norwegian_YId]

This thread is pointless
Does everyone know Jol has gone.
MOVE ON for fucks sake

You've missed my point completely.

This thread isn't about Jol, but it's about Spurs fans expectations. Many Spurs fans seem to think that we belong in the top4. If you ask why then many will point back on our history and claim that Spurs used to be so much better in the past.

 

[camaj]

I think people were getting annoyed because he should have done better

Every spurs manager in the last 20 years should have done better, but Jol managed to get a club that had finished mid-table every season for 15 years to 5th not once but twice.

How you can say we didn't improve is baffling! He not only improved us but he got us at least 5 places higher.

 

[tRiKS]

Ramos/Jol... many miss a big point. The most common statistical denominator for a high pts per games average is Ledley King. His points tally over the last 3 seaons would equate to a 80+ pt season not to mention the one cup win we have had and I daresay last years carling cup and possibly even last years UEFA, if he'd been fit and flying for the Seville quarter final first leg.

If King hadn't got injured at everton with 6 games to go in 05/06 we'd have been in CL. If king had played more of 06/07 we would have been in CL and if King had started fit this season Jol would still be in charge now.

I would argue at this stage that Ramos won a cup becasue King was fit at a vital time and that jol missed out becasue King was injured at a vital time. That theroy will only alter if Ramos gets better than 5th with King missing for big chunks or wins a cup with King missinng for the semi's and final.

Makes Jol's 2nd 5th place finish, 2 1/4's and a semi even more impressive consdiering King played only half the games.

 

[DC_Boy]

You've missed my point completely.

This thread isn't about Jol, but it's about Spurs fans expectations. Many Spurs fans seem to think that we belong in the top4. If you ask why then many will point back on our history and claim that Spurs used to be so much better in the past.

Well said NY I understood what you were getting at -

I think you were slightly down our 60s achievements - they were of a level completely out of sync with any other decade in our history - not just the trophies but the quality of them and the league consistency

but as you indicate for the most part 11th and a trophy is a tremendous season seen against our historical average which is about 12th/13th with about 2 trophies per decade (taking into account war years) since we joined the league - ie about 0.2 of a trophy per season

 

[DC_Boy]

Ramos/Jol... many miss a big point. The most common statistical denominator for a high pts per games average is Ledley King..

good point triks - though don't forget Ramos never had King fit and flying either - but it's fair to say he was more in shape for Wembley than he was for Seville

 

[tRiKS]

good point triks - though don't forget Ramos never had King fit and flying either - but it's fair to say he was more in shape for Wembley than he was for Seville

King wasn't in Seville his first game back was the 2nd leg at WHL. He was also missing for both Arsenal CC semi's and the FA cup 1/4 final too.

I think based on his perfomacnes in cup games he was picked for by Ramos, King was flying even if not fully fit. My overall point does ring true doesn't it.

 

[DC_Boy]

King wasn't in Seville his first game back was the 2nd leg at WHL. He was also missing for both Arsenal CC semi's and the FA cup 1/4 final too.

I think based on his perfomacnes in cup games he was picked for by Ramos, King was flying even if not fully fit. My overall point does ring true doesn't it.

yep Triks - I've already agreed with you just that not quite fit and almost flying was probably a better description of the King that JR was able to call on this season

 

[tRiKS]

yep Triks - I've already agreed with you just that not quite fit and almost flying was probably a better description of the King that JR was able to call on this season

fair enough i just wanted the last word

word - no returnsies