Welshiespursboyo
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Erm, exactly how long do they have to continue to be in 'transition' as opposed to just being a poor side?
Irish rugby moves further ahead of it's European counterparts!
- Thread starter Bingy
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Erm, exactly how long do they have to continue to be in 'transition' as opposed to just being a poor side?
ravo
SC Supporter
- Jun 4, 2004
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Wales were off the pace in the first test, but easily? No. Wales should have won the second test but should and have are two very different things!
Ireland did very well against the AB's in the second test but again, like Wales, came so close and yet so far.
South Africa overpowered England again, unsurprisingly.
Sorry Welshie, not sure I agree. Australia did everything to lose the second test. Bombed several tries, missed pens, dropped too much ball in the last few minutes. Wales could have won the game, but IMO didn't deserve to. Should have? dunno.
ravo
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No, they are not a poor side - they are just the most overrated side in world rugby. Mainly due to the press.
IMO:
1. NZ
2. Aus
3. SA
4. Wales
5. France
6= England
6= Argies
8. Ireland
Welshiespursboyo
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Entitled to your opinion, but I think you are entirely wrong.
Wales were much better than Australia for the majority of that match and yes, SHOULD have won. Oh well, onwards and upwards - bring on the third test!I felt gutted for Ireland, losing so narrowly to the AB's. Didn't feel the same for England though
ravo
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I felt gutted for Ireland, losing so narrowly to the AB's. Didn't feel the same for England though
Completely agree. Ireland really deserved the draw. SA vs Eng was a bit of a yawn-fest. Probably the teams that do that, as opposed to the actual rugby.
Re Wales, they have got a few cracking young players coming through. They are going to be a force in the next few years.
- Oct 2, 2004
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- #27
Erm, exactly how long do they have to continue to be in 'transition' as opposed to just being a poor side?
They've been 'in transition' for one six nations (which they almost won) and one test series. If the management don't bottle it and keep this squad of players together for a while, I genuinely think they'll be a force to be reckoned with in the next couple of years.
They have a selection of young backs who should all be arround for a while (Foden, Ashton, Barritt, Tuilagi, Youngs and Farrell) and a forward pack which, although flawed at the moment (as shown brutally in the first 20 minutes against the Boks the other day) has the potential to become a good unit if we keep the faith.
The South Africa games have been disappointing because there had been so much progress in the six nations, but even though England have been poor for large periods of both games they've ended up not being beaten by much. They do however need to make a decision at fly half and then stick with it. Messing around with that part of the team never helps and they need to get some consistency there.
I'm not saying this England team is marching towards a world cup victory in 2015, but if managed correctly I think they could be the Northern Hemisphere team that goes closest at the next world cup.
Welshiespursboyo
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potentially....but please dont get carried away. The Welsh team are young too and should only get better
They also have some fantastic youngsters who should be around for a fair few years.England aren't the only young side see!
Will be interesting to see how both sides develop between now and the next world cup.
- Oct 2, 2004
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potentially....but please dont get carried away. The Welsh team are young too and should only get better
England aren't the only young side see!
Will be interesting to see how both sides develoo between now and the next world cup.
Yeah I'm certainly not writing off the Welsh, particularly as their youngsters already look really top drawer. I think by 2015 though the Welsh pack will have required a fair bit of rejigging whereas the England lot should be able to stay together for a while.
Welshiespursboyo
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I dont know if it will see...there arent that many older players in the Welsh squad....Adam Jones will be a big loss but there are 1 or 2 boys already lining up to replacr him.
Anyway....excitinf times ahead for both sides I feel. (I fucking hate losing to the English
)
mpickard2087
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Yeh with England right now its a learning curve for these young players against the SH teams and what is needed in ordr to make the step up. South Africa is a unique challenge though (especially for the young players) because of the ferocity of it all and the tactics of non stop kick/chase rugby. Yes there have bee two defeats but at least we have seen excellent attitude and fight/determination from the team because it has looked at stages as if we would get absolutely thrashed but they have fought back and made the matches a real contest. I think what has been lacking is power especially from the second rows and No. 8, where Botha, Parling have been found wanting a bit and Morgan has been off-form and struggling with fitness, not enough ball carriers and go forward.
It will remain to be seen whether we can step it up against the SH teams but I dont think we have as much to fear in the Six Nations, our pack is arguably the best of all the teams and we just need to get the backline clicking (a settled 9, 10 and 12 combination being crucial to this). Plus so far under Lancaster we havent had everybody fit for selection so if and when this does become the case things look promising.
It will remain to be seen whether we can step it up against the SH teams but I dont think we have as much to fear in the Six Nations, our pack is arguably the best of all the teams and we just need to get the backline clicking (a settled 9, 10 and 12 combination being crucial to this). Plus so far under Lancaster we havent had everybody fit for selection so if and when this does become the case things look promising.
As I said at the start of the thread I'm no expert, genuinely have a liking for the game, wish I had got in to it when a kid as opposed ( well, along with ) to football and boxing, and that's saying something considering the love I have for these two sports. Just never had the exposure unfortunately ( secondary schools in my area barely had a lesson in rugby let alone an actual team )
Can you ITK's tell me how good David Attwood is? Is he the enforcer England clearly need for such trips to South Africa? Or is he a liability? Not seen much of him but have a friend who calls him the next Danny Grewcock and although Grewcock was a bit of a liability at times he would have certainly have come in handy over the past two weeks! ( well, a young Grewcock would have )
Can you ITK's tell me how good David Attwood is? Is he the enforcer England clearly need for such trips to South Africa? Or is he a liability? Not seen much of him but have a friend who calls him the next Danny Grewcock and although Grewcock was a bit of a liability at times he would have certainly have come in handy over the past two weeks! ( well, a young Grewcock would have )
- Oct 2, 2004
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Sadly I'm with you as a relative late comer to the game and am still building up my knowledge of club rugby. I've started to go and watch Harlequins relatvely regularly in the last 3-4 years which was at first disastrous and then glorious but I don't have a great feel for the players outside the England setup who may break in soon.
Having watched the last Boks game though England certainly need more power upfront. We have been letting them play their own game too much as a result of being beasted in the pack but I'm not sure what we can do about that at the moment.
Interesting to see Alex Goode come into the team. He was magnificent the year that Sarries won the Premiership (and the year before that) but by all accounts hasn't quite hit those heights recently. There's a huge amount of competition at full back at the moment for England so he'll have to take his chance.
mpickard2087
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Bit of a thug, but probably deserves a chance. However there is quite a lot of competition in that area, Parling Botha and Palmer seem to be the preferred choices, then you have Robson and Kitchener waiting in the wings plus Lawes and Launchbury to come back from injury. Has to cut out the disciplinary issues I would think before he comes into contention.
mpickard2087
Patient Zero
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I did say previously that we need more power from the engine room of the Locks and No.8, but I'm not sure we are being beasted actually, I think they are just simply doing the basics better than us in two areas. A good accurate high bomb with a good kick chase (we did improve on this slightly in the second test) and passing the ball in front of the player who runs on to it at pace, rather than our players who seem to take it stationary and behind the gainline. This makes a world of difference.
My same mate drools over a Lawes and Attwood partnership. I know all about Lawes, there is no ceiling to his potential imo, can be as good as he wants. I like Palmer, he has a bitt of class and adds ballast. Botha annoys me. He tackles like a banana skin! Decent engine on him though.
Any of you guys seen much of Mako Vunipola? I like his brother Billy, but not seen anything of his little brother. Another tipped for big things. I know our front row is pretty settled ( Corbs has to start ) but it's nice having other options coming through.
Any of you guys seen much of Mako Vunipola? I like his brother Billy, but not seen anything of his little brother. Another tipped for big things. I know our front row is pretty settled ( Corbs has to start ) but it's nice having other options coming through.
mpickard2087
Patient Zero
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I saw him play for Bristol two seasons back, highly thought of but he moved to Saracens and I think he needs more gametime there first before he progresses to International.
I'm looking forward to Ford coming in at Fly Half, apparently this guy really is the real deal.
