Is football getting a bit rubbish now?

[ultimateloner]

You haven't understood the debate properly.
Much of this is true...but it is also true that this has come hand-in-hand with an erosion of the type of values that saw Steve Bull stay at Wolves out of loyalty to the detriment of his career. It has also seen the competitive edge reduced to a small cartel at the top with the mai hope of success being the finding of a rich benefactor and not a genius coach who could build a team. It has also seen saturation of the game on TV, the hyping of relatively, or even totally, meaningless games, and a CL where the rewards for success are so great that teams would rather stifle a match to death than risk loosing it.

It is better in some ways. It is worse in some ways.



Many, many people on this planet have not been money hungry, and are not money hungry today :roll:

I don't think you should believe that players in the past have better values than the present ones. The difference is not the individual but the environment. Back in the day the money at stake is less, and players have less awareness and opportunity (sponsorship etc). Its also harder to move around; so loyalty is the easier option.

I also disagree that 'many people on this planet are not money-hungry'. I think this doesn't apply to someone who has alot of career ambition. Giggs is the best sign of loyalty - but he is playing for 1 of the best clubs around. You can't expect the same from a Spurs player. It would be foolishness to not move to Real Mardrid given the chance.

Morally speaking clubs and fans are ruthless to underperforming players too; so why should they not do the same to us?

 

[StartingPrice]

I don't think you should believe that players in the past have better values than the present ones. The difference is not the individual but the environment. Back in the day the money at stake is less, and players have less awareness and opportunity (sponsorship etc). Its also harder to move around; so loyalty is the easier option.

I also disagree that 'many people on this planet are not money-hungry'. I think this doesn't apply to someone who has alot of career ambition. Giggs is the best sign of loyalty - but he is playing for 1 of the best clubs around. You can't expect the same from a Spurs player. It would be foolishness to not move to Real Mardrid given the chance.

Morally speaking clubs and fans are ruthless to underperforming players too; so why should they not do the same to us?

I don't believe individual players had better values.
I feel that the likes of Steve Bull have disappeared from the face of the game because of...Steve Bull. Let me explain; anyone who was around at the time will be aware that he probably could have played for a top side and won many caps for England, and that if he had played for a top side he would have won many more caps for England. His loyalty to Wolves quite simply hampered his career.
That sends out a message - being loyal to a lower league club WILL hamper your progress at International level.
With the bit about ambition people being money hungry, you kinda answer yourself. What comes first the ambition of the money? If you asked Luka Modric which he would prefer, being transferred to Accrington Stanley and being paid £200,000 per week, but playing with mediocre players, or being transferred to Barcelona, being paid the wage he is on with us, but winning FCUKing everything, which do you think he would choose? My money would be on the Barcelona transfer, personally:wink:
I don't expect the same from a Spurs player. What I expect is this: when a player who has 5 years left on his contract, knows we are building a team around him, and makes so many statements as he has about being able to fulfill his footballing ambitions with us, loving it at the club and happy to stay, a big believer in loyalty and then talking about the way we gave him a chance when others didn't due to his diminuitive size, looking to see mbition from us in the transfer market, etc., etc., I expect something more than two weeks later, when some snake gets in his ear (probably that rat-FCUK Jorabchian), to talk suddenly decide he wants to jump ship because one of our detested rivals has more money. That is just disgraceful.
The point you seem to miss is that I, personally, and many other SCers, have went out of our way to way that if it was the case that we fail to qualify for CL next year and he wanted to leave to play in CL I would not be upset. I would find it understandable. But that isn't the case here - it is like you are trying to turn it into that after the event so that we can all carry on loving Luka, or something.
And your last point, is too true, and see in relation to my last paragraph: but a lot of players pull this card, failing to reflect that they were actually a part of the side that failed.
It is simple, asfar as I am concerned, he owes us a year (at least). If we don't make the CL, and don't look capable of fulfilling his ambitions, fine - sell him overseas, and wish him well (but not as much as if he hadn't pulled this stunt).
Because what you are failing totally to understand is that it is the way he has gone about this, not that he might want to fulfill his footballing ambitions and doesn't believe he can do that with us, that is upsetting folk.

 

[spursphil]

lol at FC United!!!

[yt]3LDnX7qsXpM[/yt]

 

[hazzaaa]

Your talking absolute rubbish.

Chelsea and City aren't exactly Dagenham & Redbridge are they? They have always been esteblished clubs and they both have some degree of history.

If you found our debut season in the CL in some games "boring", I believe you're either on your own on that opinion or at the most, in a minority so slight you can't even create a Facebook page for them.

Again, finishing 5th and 15th is a difference of about £6m in prize money, prestige and also the added bonus of Europa League, which we won't be complaining about if we win it. So more crap coming out of your post.

The Clubs you mention that might agree, they are in the position they are in because they deserve to be there. Man City being bought by some ultra billionaire isn't the reason Forrest went down. It isn't the reason Leeds went mad in the transfer market and nearly went bust. It isn't the reason Aston Villa nearly condemned themselves to relegation by imploding their relationship with MON and then hiring the not only inept, but also highly lacklustre Gerard Houllier.

Football audiences are at an all time high worldwide. The money keeps coming in as people are jumping on the bandwagon. Football is getting better IMO. 30 odd years ago there was rich clubs. Hell we we're the main financial powerhouse for a period! Arsenal aren't finishing below Man City and Chelsea because they are richer than them, it's because their manager is too stubborn to go and buy a central defender that can actually defend or a GK that possesses the ability to catch a ball on a consistent basis.

I agree with literally none of your post. Utter garbage.

You're a burk.

 

[bigturnip]

[yt]3LDnX7qsXpM[/yt]

It may be about Man U, but it is true of all Premier League clubs these days. Every little thing about clubs is controlled by the money men these days, from the manufactured atmosphere with those stupid little flags we get at big games to the 6 different kits we can purchase every season.

I guess it's the era we live in, with manufactured pop bands and ratings' chasing television programmes, nothing is ever allowed to evolve naturally nowadays, everything has to be instant and translate into figures on a balance sheet.

 

[ultimateloner]

It may be about Man U, but it is true of all Premier League clubs these days. Every little thing about clubs is controlled by the money men these days, from the manufactured atmosphere with those stupid little flags we get at big games to the 6 different kits we can purchase every season.

I guess it's the era we live in, with manufactured pop bands and ratings' chasing television programmes, nothing is ever allowed to evolve naturally nowadays, everything has to be instant and translate into figures on a balance sheet.

This is civilisation my friend:
More money = more control = more safe.
Less mavericks = less individualism

 

[spursphil]

It may be about Man U, but it is true of all Premier League clubs these days. Every little thing about clubs is controlled by the money men these days, from the manufactured atmosphere with those stupid little flags we get at big games to the 6 different kits we can purchase every season.

I guess it's the era we live in, with manufactured pop bands and ratings' chasing television programmes, nothing is ever allowed to evolve naturally nowadays, everything has to be instant and translate into figures on a balance sheet.

My thoughts exactly mate, remember the tacky "goal celebration music"
Cup finals at Wembley are ruined with booming music after the match, it totally subdues a spontaneous reaction from the fans.
Mind you arsenal could do with some canned crowd noise!:razz:

 

[Jay The Yid]

It is all a bit poo now.

I feel sorry for the young football fans I really do. With the cost of going to see a game these days and just the lack of fun I experienced standing in the Paxton in the 80's is just not there anymore.

Sure there are games WHL is rocking and am very proud that we can still generate a decent atmosphere unlike so many other clubs in the country.

But I remember having such a great time in the Paxton Road end in pretty much every game of the season. We used to get there about 45 mins before KO (Sometimes an hour againstthe bigger sides) stand in the same bit with some other familiar faces and the atmosphere used to build. This is something that just doesnt happen anymore.

Im sure some of the wit has also gone from the game aswell. Some of the songs that were started were brilliant and just loved the YIDIO chant!

Oh yes it was just a couple of quid to get in! and I didnt need a season ticket!

 

[bigturnip]

It is all a bit poo now.

I feel sorry for the young football fans I really do. With the cost of going to see a game these days and just the lack of fun I experienced standing in the Paxton in the 80's is just not there anymore.

Sure there are games WHL is rocking and am very proud that we can still generate a decent atmosphere unlike so many other clubs in the country.

But I remember having such a great time in the Paxton Road end in pretty much every game of the season. We used to get there about 45 mins before KO (Sometimes an hour againstthe bigger sides) stand in the same bit with some other familiar faces and the atmosphere used to build. This is something that just doesnt happen anymore.

Im sure some of the wit has also gone from the game aswell. Some of the songs that were started were brilliant and just loved the YIDIO chant!

Oh yes it was just a couple of quid to get in! and I didnt need a season ticket!

I'm sure the introduction of all-seater stadia has taken a lot out of the atmosphere at many grounds, it's just not as social, and as you have allocated seating it means there is no need to get in early. The bans on smoking and drinking within view of the pitch must also have had an impact on fans getting in early to create an atmosphere.

The fact that fans aren't getting in early to create the atmosphere means that it has to be generated very quickly just before kick-off for the cameras, that's why football these days is full of loud music, those stupid flags and plastic cards to hold up. It might get the crowd going for a couple of minutes, which is what the money men want for the cameras, but it never lasts and it never feels natural or spontaneous.