Is it about money or trophies?

[DC_Boy]

if we look at the money -it's well known that we get more revenue than the vast majority of CL clubs

how many clubs enter the CL either qualifying or 'proper stages' (as 4th we go through qualifying)
at least 100?

so already we earn more money than something like 90% of CL clubs (rough approx obviously)

so clearly just being in the CL isn't like going to money heaven otherwise our revenue wouldn't be 11 in Europe (world)

how much is 4th place worth compared to 5th? about £500,000 ?

that of course is way less than the money you get from a Carling final (especially if you win it)

how much is a CL place worth if you don't make the group stages - almost certainly less than the money generated from a successful Carling Cup run (for us anyway)

so while it's great to be in Cl - simply getting 4th and an early knock out isn't any more lucrative and is a lot less glamorous than winning the Carling

How much did Everton make from 4th place and their Eurpean 'tour' the next year - not much - nothing like the money we coined from winning the Carling and reaching the last 16 of UEFA Cup this season

so yes for the CL regualrs who make the final stages CL is big money - for miost it ain't

and of course I want us in the CL - but it isn't a one way ticket to El Dorado

 

[Shanks]

TheBigMatch, whilst I agree with your post, the problem we have is that we need to be competing at a higher level.
Although, to attract the best players to play against the best teams, you need to offer them more than just UEfa cup and domestic cup football.

 

[DC_Boy]

Where did Everton get with their 4th? Nowhere! Where is the extra money? Spent. Bet their fans would like to have a Cup in their dusty trophy cabinet.

Where did Newcastle get with their (was it) 2nd? Nowhere! Where is the extra money? Spent. Bet their fans would like to have a Cup in their very dusty trophy cabinet.... if they still have one!

.

the whole post was v. good TBM - but thought i'd highlight these 2 points (I just made the same one about the Toffees pretty much

 

[TheBlueRooster]

Sustained qualification. Just like we did when we got Uefa cup.

Gradually progressing as a club & challenging for cups, whilst being able to attract the best players with our new found status.

..but it wasn't sustained, we had a shit finish to one season and a lucky season the next. The only way we've got qualification next year is because of the CC.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see all this success that everyone else seems to think is our right, but I can't see it happening just yet.

 

[stemark44]

Sustained qualification. Just like we did when we got Uefa cup.

Gradually progressing as a club & challenging for cups, whilst being able to attract the best players with our new found status.

Exactly right!
Lets not forget that in the past 10-15 years the domestic cups have been almost exclusively won by the top 4 teams - if we become a top 4 team then the chances are,that we will also win cups!

 

[Kendall]

..but it wasn't sustained, we had a shit finish to one season and a lucky season the next. The only way we've got qualification next year is because of the CC.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see all this success that everyone else seems to think is our right, but I can't see it happening just yet.

neither can I

but the thread is asking what is the most imporant.

It's not as easy to just say money, everyone wants to win things, but as a club we should be getting progressively better, the CL is where we want to be, so that we can fill a bigger stadium and attract the best players.

People talk about our wage structure when not able to attract the best, but I want players that have ambition and want to be in the CL, and see Spurs as being a club who could be there.

The Everton example is pretty shit, they didn't capitalise on being 4th like we could - if we made CL, we'd spend even bigger, but on some of the best players around that previously we could only dream of.

I want Spurs to be a force and to compete with Arsenal. Not pottering around in 11th place, winning the least glamorous competition out of the 4 we were in and saying it's a good season.

 

[Mr-T]

Trophies, thats an easy one as according to the toilet and douche football rich list, we already have money.

 

[DoublePivot]

It's about the poon.....always about the poon.

Money and trophies equally help in obtaining more poon.

 

[TheBigMatch]

Even without Champions League Spurs are the 11th richest club in the world, not England, the big bad WORLD. £153,400,000 revenue in 2006/2007.

I don't know the exact figures but a strong urban myth has it that we have been one of the biggest spenders over the premiership years, famously spending more than ar5ena1.

The reason why Spurs have failed to win more trophies over the past 16 years other than the 2 League Cups has been due more to poor management and poor player performance than it has been due to money.

Jol's two 5th place finishes weren't because Levy gave him a greater fortune to spend than previous managers.

And Ramos's League Cup win was perhaps despite the wasted big spending of last summer. One could argue that Spurs would have performed much better if that £40 million hadn't been spent.

The new stadium will be built because Spurs fans are some of the best, and loudest, in the Premier League, paying on average more than any other fans at the turnstiles, and still selling out almost every week. They will build that 50K or 60K stadium, Champions league or no Champions league. It will be built.

But in years to come what fans will want to look at when they visit the new stadium is trophies; not a hard-luck-but-jolly-well-done-certificate saying Spurs finished 3rd and qualified to play in the Champions League.

Poor old Pleat hardly get's the time of day despite almost winning 3 trophies but ending up finishing 3rd.

 

[DC_Boy]

Yep TBM- As i've already posted our revenue is already more than about 90% of the teams who play in the CL (including qualifying - which is where 4th gets you)

I would also bet we made more money from the Carling Cup run 11th place & last 16 in UEFa than toffees made from 4th and their CL & UEFA 'run' the following season

ues we want CL, but in itsellf it's not El Dorado - it's being a big club and getting to the latter stages that's where the big money kicks in

 

[KeaneIsKeane]

I voted for 4th, because I want to see Spurs in the CL playing against the best in the world. I'd imagine this would be as thrilling as winning the Carling Cup, particularly if we make it to the knockout stages.

 

[chinaman]

For me a silverware gives more excitement than coning 4th. Does anyone ever remembers when you came third or fourth in the league? Every fan can reel off the years in which we won something; and that's the best indicator of which is more important to most.

 

[N10toN17]

I can name every year we've won a trophy off the top of me head, I can name one or two 2nd place finishes and would struggle with 3rd or 4th. Ultimately, the final destination is winning trophies and I'm not really sure how anybody can argue against that, I just don't understand the stance that money is more important?

We are rich, we are very rich compard to most teams in England and the world. Money is no guarantee, it has to be spent well and in the last 20 years in general Spurs have spent poorly.

Is money important? Most definately. Is trophies more important? Most definately.

Is entering the CL important? Definately, but and this is the crux only if it leads to trophies, if we don't win any while we're in the CL it hasn't done us any good.

I will never turn my nose up at a trophy in place of a high league finish unless that finish is 1st.

 

[Bulletspur]

Lets say the club won the Carling Cup 2-3 times in the next 10 years but consistently remained 6th or 7th in the league and never qualified for the Champions league,would I be happy with our lot? NO WAY!
Our club has made progress in the last few years and has created forward momentum among the players and the fans.If we can't step up to a Champions league spot in the next 2-3 seasons that momentum will be lost,we have the right chairman,we have the right manager,we have the money and we have some of the players!We need a few more very good players,we need a new stadium and we need Champions league football to sustain our growth - not Carling cups!

And what is the purpose of this growth? Certainly ultimately isnt it to win more trophies?

Firstly the author did not specifiy which cup. I am all for growth etc, who isnt? If I was to read the author ( but I may be wrong here) it is what is more important, the league position or winnings cups (and not only the Carling cup). In other words winning tropies will also do the same as trying to finish 4th, ie bringing in finances, getting better players and raising the profile of a club, the only difference is winning a trophy you are a winner, but unless you win your respective league you are not.

I will put it back to you for the next ten years we come 2nd, 3rd or 4th but dont win a cup, do you fancy that? I certainly would not.

 

[MarkinJapan]

I'd take the 4th place over the Carling Cup because long-term if we were able to get more money, then we could buy better players and hopefully win more trophies!

Plus, it would knock out one of the so-called Big 4, and increase our chances of getting better players, making more money and once again winning trophies!

So, to summarise, we need to be in the Champions League in order to win more trophies in the future!

I would happily forego any success for the next 3 seasons if it meant being stable at the top of the table in the medium term. That should set us up nicely for the future and lots of success! Hoorah!

 

[Bulletspur]

I'd take the 4th place over the Carling Cup because long-term if we were able to get more money, then we could buy better players and hopefully win more trophies!

But thats the crux of the arguement isn it? Hoping is no guarantee to win irrespective of your position. It comes back to the old saying, a bird in hand is worth more than two in the bushes :shrug:

 

[don1]

champions league place for me just looking at the teams in the semi final and so close to the biggest club comp. final in the world and wishing that one day that will be us lifting that trophy just take a look at that liverpool team that won it and the team thats there now there not world beaters but with hard work and playing for the team anything can happen.
so why not spurs
coys

 

[DoublePivot]

I voted for CL. I think the trophies matter more in general, but if we can make the CL then we can start to attract the players that can make us compete for the league (which is the trophy) and make more trophies infinitely more plausible.

 

[fortworthspur]

money or trophies?

they're two sides of the same coin. fans want trophies, the club accountants want money. they go hand in hand. its no accident that the top 4 are firmly cemented in the top 4 spots and have won virtually all the trophies this decade. what is the common denominator? champions league football.

 

[KentuckyYid]

Fourth is closer to being first than winning the carling cup is. As far as I'm concerned no matter which team you support you should aspire to be first otherwise whats the point in keeping the score?

Cups should be considered bonuses with the league as our bread and butter. We're a long way from there and IMO futher than we were when under Jol. I'm confident Ramos will put his stamp on the team over the summer and take us where Jol unluckily failed. I haven't eaten Lasagna since & will not until we get to the promised land.