Is Pochettino's machine seizing up?

Llord Flashheart

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#41
To be fair the second stat isn't something to be proud about.
Not necessarily, it does depend how you look at it, though.
Looking at it positively, I view it that we're harrying and pressing more, willing to put the boot in and win the ball back. Defending from the front.
It's not great to be getting the cards but I honestly believe it's because we're fighting a hell of a lot harder this season, barring the odd blip.
How long have we been viewed as a soft touch?

If we had the least amount of yellow cards, whilst it could be for myriad reasons, you could then assume it's because we're not doing those things, we're not putting ourselves in the position to get a yellow card.

Of course it could be because all the refs are Spurs fans and won't book our players but I'm long enough in the tooth to feel aggrieved at a lot of decisions that we don't get for us! ;)

Yes, getting the yellow cards will ultimately deprive of us of certain players at certain times but I look at our squad and we've enough talent to cover this, we're playing better this season, collectively. Sure every game isn't perfect but I, for one, am a lot happier. :cautious:

Big win tomorrow, please, boys! COYS! :)
 
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SteveH

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#42
Nope, I said obvious to me not obvious to you.
I would say everybody at all clubs wants their team to get as high in their respective leagues as possible. There is of course a certain amount of pressure from that on every manager. But that's normal.

Poch is under increasing pressure due to so many injuries. Thats all we hear about these days and Spurs are not alone in this.
 

Mullers

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#43
I would say everybody at all clubs wants their team to get as high in their respective leagues as possible. There is of course a certain amount of pressure from that on every manager. But that's normal.

Poch is under increasing pressure
due to so many injuries. Thats all we hear about these days and Spurs are not alone in this.
Under increasing pressure from who? We punched above our weight last season and qualified for Europe, so why is there pressure to punch 2 or more weight classes above our weight of 6th?
 

Mullers

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#44
Not necessarily, it does depend how you look at it, though.
Looking at it positively, I view it that we're harrying and pressing more, willing to put the boot in and win the ball back. Defending from the front.
It's not great to be getting the cards but I honestly believe it's because we're fighting a hell of a lot harder this season, barring the odd blip.
How long have we been viewed as a soft touch?

If we had the least amount of yellow cards, whilst it could be for myriad reasons, you could then assume it's because we're not doing those things, we're not putting ourselves in the position to get a yellow card.

Of course it could be because all the refs are Spurs fans and won't book our players but I'm long enough in the tooth to feel aggrieved at a lot of decisions that we don't get for us! ;)

Yes, getting the yellow cards will ultimately deprive of us of certain players at certain times but I look at our squad and we've enough talent to cover this, we're playing better this season, collectively. Sure every game isn't perfect but I, for one, am a lot happier. :cautious:

Big win today, please, boys! COYS! :)
To me the harrying and pressing is mostly the same as last season. I don't think the soft tag has gone yet, the defence has improved but I still think that many teams fancy us to let at least one goal in.
 

Llord Flashheart

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#45
To me the harrying and pressing is mostly the same as last season. I don't think the soft tag has gone yet, the defence has improved but I still think that many teams fancy us to let at least one goal in.
You're not wrong, it's all margins and how the individual perceives it, I guess.
I think we are harrying better this season. I agree the soft tag remains but it's to a much less degree.

Our defence is getting better but we're suspect to letting in silly goals but I don't think being a soft touch and the solidity of our defence necessarily go hand in hand. We're defending better a lot further up the pitch, there is more steel to our game across the pitch, which I think is a good thing.
Teams know they're in for a slog against us, the extra amount of running, the more physical battle, we need to be getting into the opposition's minds about the game and how tough it'll be for them before a ball is kicked.

I'm not saying we're anywhere close to nirvana yet, but these are much better foundations than have been laid in recent history, foundations to build upon, not a one or two season jolly.
 

ultimateloner

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#46
I think Poch has set us up on a virtuous cycle:

Better and more organized defence/pressing.
A system where young players can come in and perform in non-critical roles.

This is a good foundation that will get us competing for top 4 consistently.
We are a lean operation and Poch's ideas are in line with that.

However I dont think Poch is going to bring more into the table attacking-wise. I've seen no signs of any orgznied approach in attack:

No counter-attacking drills
No setpiece variation
No consistent returns on 3 vs 2s, transitions etc.

I dont think he is the kind of coach that can improve us offensively. I think we would need to buy our way into this one; which is fiine, thats what most teams do (Chelsea/Man City what have you).

Conclusion:
1) Poch's done a good job and gave us the foundations to compete at our level.
2) No signs of him being able to bring us further forward attacking-wise, at least not from pure coaching.
3) So in the end we still need that big stadium and Levy to buy correctly if we were to get to the next level.
4) As a supporter I am happy with this; we are efficient and getting good returns for money spent. What more can you ask.
 

Sweetsman

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#47
A plan B is needed in games where the score line is going away from the desired. EG we are playing Bournemouth who have decided to sit back and pack their half (I know they don't), 20 minutes left and you think we should just carry on the same possession stuff, going out wide then coming back inside and hope they tire?
If you read the rest of the post, I did say that we can play differently. The point about the continental style of play is that it needs patience, something that British fans find difficult.
 

SteveH

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#49
Under increasing pressure from who? We punched above our weight last season and qualified for Europe, so why is there pressure to punch 2 or more weight classes above our weight of 6th?
Christ you can be thick ;) - the pressure is coming from no human being, The pressure is coming from the situation of not having fit players.
 

Mullers

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#50
Christ you can be thick ;) - the pressure is coming from no human being, The pressure is coming from the situation of not having fit players.
Fit players are human beings Steven :p
Seriously I don't see that as a pressure they are not long term injuries.
 

LexingtonSpurs

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#51
I really don't get all these hard ons for Son
I know, 3 goals in 4 appearances is way overrated. I could probably do that in my sleep.

Seriously though, his goal threat, pace, and attacking mentality mix well with Kane, Lamela and Eriksen. Without him, we don't have the same goal threat with Chadli, Clinton, Dembele, or Townsend, or anyone else who plays in the attacking 4. That balance helps create scoring opportunities and allows Kane to stop worrying about being the focus, allows Eriksen and Lamela to play off both Son and Kane.
 

gusrowe

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#52
We just need to be more clinical in front of goal. We create loads of chances in games but never finish off the majority. Things will improve once Son is back but we do need another back up striker......what about Vardy?
 

cliff jones

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#53
This is the poch machine. 65% possession, collectively running 110km per 90 mins. 5 shots on target per game, perhaps 3 from inside the box narrow victories or low scoring draws.

Two set piece, one offside and breakaway goals against depleted city dont change the underlying realities.

Our foward players arent great. Good, but inconsistent.

So get used to it.

Having written that, weve got some nice young players and sons running off the ball changes the dynamic.. Good cover all over the pitch except up top.

Which leads me to feel for poch a little, dealt a bum hand by levy as he was last summer too.

the one thing that concerns me about the out running opponents crap is that its unfeasible to rely on it in the el games coming as they do in between high intensity prem battles, with mainly the first xi involved.

Haha, matic....
 

yiddo23

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#54
I see us as playing fairly well with finishing being our major concern. Add in that Kane is on a drought and we have had injuries to some of best players, all while being unbeaten in 8 in the league, I'd say we are doing fine, ya should have picked up more points but every team can say that about almost every game every year
 

stuffies

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#55
Think poch is doing well...has faults but so does everyone.
But he's cleared out most of the deadwood and is slowly building HIS team...a team that's hungry...young..fit.
There's been times where we've played some great stuff but yet haven't seen us do it for long periods in a game.
Last season we let ourself down defensively and already you can see poch has addressed the issue.
Toby and Jan pairing is working well....walker getting back to his best and no doubt made to work harder with tripper coming in.Davis looking better and Rose pushing on aswell....but what helps the most is Dier coming in to protect the back....at times with Jan and Toby split wide he almost drops in as a advanced CB...and makes a back 3 with fullbacks pushed high up.
If kane was firing like last season I think we'd be in the top 3 by now....but no one could forsee he'd would struggle as much as he has so far.....
Son was looking to add that spark we needed...Some who could beat a man....someone who could be direct and create that chance....but hes/we've been unlucky he got injured.

Overall watching us can be frustrating at times but poch is building the future and sadly that doesn't happen overnight...but for me,we're moving in the right direct.

COYS
 

npearl4spurs

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#56
The thing is...we have really tied our wagon to these young players thinking they will continue to develop and improve. I think they will, and if they do, we will have something special.

I just wish we had a bit more aggression in attack with some speed.
 

Shadydan

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#57
The thing is...we have really tied our wagon to these young players thinking they will continue to develop and improve. I think they will, and if they do, we will have something special.

I just wish we had a bit more aggression in attack with some speed.
When son gets back we will.
 

rupsmith

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#58
ENIC CRITICISM ALERT.
To me it's obvious that he's under a great deal of pressure from the board to get top four. I find that ridiculous especially when they miss out on getting a striker for the past two windows. The constant hard on for top 4 when we are the sixth richest club is stunting our progress. I'm sure if there wasn't this pressure Poch would be more inclined to play more youth in premier league games instead of limited appearances in the cup games.

The youth are the foundation of the club but I kind of fear for their future because of the quick success mentality that's around. I much prefer to give some youth experience even if it means finishing midtable of course that means no Europa but we only just decided to take it more seriously anyway. It would also mean we will get less money but we will make more money if we have some youth who make it through.
I must say I don't agree with that - if anything there seems to be a general understanding that "a top 4 slot at any cost" is much less an objective than it has been over the last 10 years.

I think Mr Levy is looking at things more from a long term perspective - the key being the building of the stadium. As long as we are not below 6th or 7th he'll be happy, and as Poch is a manager that builds youth and academy players, he is the kind of manager that fits the "project". Therefore the objective seems to be that we should be the "young" team in the country while our stadium is being built while still getting Europa League positions. Our strong scouting network means that we will attract the best young players and sell them on for significant profits as we grow - Bale, Modric being examples of when this works out.

It is good leadership and management on paper and in my view we have to respect what they are trying to do.
 
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Mullers

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#59
I must say I don't agree with that - if anything there seems to be a general understanding that "a top 4 slot at any cost" is much less an objective than it has been over the last 10 years.

I think Mr Levy is looking at things more from a long term perspective - the key being the building of the stadium. As long as we are not below 6th or 7th he'll be happy, and as Poch is a manager that builds youth and academy players, he is the kind of manager that fits the "project". Therefore the objective seems to be that we should be the "young" team in the country while our stadium is being built while still getting Europa League positions. Our strong scouting network means that we will attract the best young players and sell them on for significant profits as we grow - Bale, Modric being examples of when this works out.

It is good leadership and management on paper and in my view we have to respect what they are trying to do.
If Poch is building youth and academy players then it shouldn't matter so much if we finish below 7th. I think people who are expecting the stadium to be a 'game changer' are going to be in for a nasty shock. Not much if anything will change at all. I'm not sure how strong our scouting network is, we've been able to find a striker for the past few window and a DM in the last window we've had to resort to playing a defender there, which is just as well really because he would barely be getting any game time if that wasn't the case.
 

Bilko

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#60
Well - this is irrelevant to this site and post but just want to get this off my chest.
Sitting here reading German papers this morning about their new cheat. How they bought the last world cup in Germany and are now trying to cover it up. How Beckenbauer ( golf cheat and until now a big chum of Blatter) got caught pants down and is denying it. How the new guy to take the baton is Rummennige ( a big chum of Plattini) who will ensure the next world cup available goes to Germany- AGAIN - AND NOT TO GREAT BRITAIN.
I hope British press are on to this - the Germans can be a greedy bunch.
Rant over.
Oh and I like Pochettino - he's good for us
 
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