its a shame we penny pich for the wrong players

[scat1620]

Screw Arshavin - some of you are getting far too hung up on him. I'd imagine that after our game at WHL against L'Arse this season there were plenty of scummers bemoaning the fact that Wenger took a pass on Palacios for about tuppence ha'penny before he'd moved to England, given that their lack of a tough-tackling central midfielder has probably cost them a shot at the League title this year. Big mistake by them, as they could've had a £14-million player (and of the type they desperately needed) for peanuts.

Every club has ones that get away, let's not obsess about one at the filth down the road.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Let's move on, I bet some of you haven't got over the fact we didn't sign Des Walker as a school boy.

Yeah but he won a cup final for us !:grin:


I take your point tp and totally agree.

 

[The Original Yiddster]

Where did Arshavin play last night? They only had one striker (Bendtner) on the pitch so I would imagine at least one of their five midfielders had a licence to get forward whenever he could. Contrast that to our 442 where the central pairing of Palacios and Jenas have to work hard to allow Modric and Lennon to create things for our strikers and I think it's not too surprising that we don't get many from midfield, especially the centre. I think it's our system and not necessarily the personel. Furthermore, if you look at Arsenals central 442 pairing, Fabregas and Denilson have 1 goal in 27 appearences and 3 goals in 46 appearences respectively. This isn't very different to Jenas' 3 in 34.

I seem to remember us playing with 5 across the middle for at least half the season with either Bent or RP up front on their own and the goal return was paltry from midfield even then. Either Lennon or Modric need to score more if they are the attacking options which they do and are or we secure the services of a more dynamic CM to complement the strengths of Palacios ........i think the answer is a mixture of both as a goal from midfield once in every 11 games will def hold us back

 

[danielneeds]

If you ignore the should we/shouldnt we have signed him when he had the chance argument one thing his performance last confirms is just how goal shy we are from midfield. If you take Lennon Jenas, Modric and Palacios as our midfield of choice at present they have scored 12 goals over a combined 128 matches so our first choice midfield contributes roughly 1 goal every 11 games.

This is a lamentable return and needs to be addressed in the summer and is one of the fundamental reasons as to why Jenas should be replaced. Palacios does a great job defensively and Lennon and Modric offer great threat and assists if not a goal return whereas Jenas simply offers next to nothing in an attacking sense let alone a reasonable goal return.

You make a great point about not scoring enough goals from midfield, but comparing Jenas to Gerrard and Lampard is unfair (firstly because they are both incredibly special players) and second that both have been playing by and large with two central midfielders behind them, and behind a lone front man, enabling them to bomb forward with impunity. So in many ways Keane's goal scoring return, is more comaprable theirs.

I do agree that we do need to add more goals from midfield next year though, thats why I would like to see us put in a bid for Elano if City buy heavily as expected. He is a ten goals a season man guaranteed.

 

[The Original Yiddster]

You make a great point about not scoring enough goals from midfield, but comparing Jenas to Gerrard and Lampard is unfair (firstly because they are both incredibly special players) and second that both have been playing by and large with two central midfielders behind them, and behind a lone front man, enabling them to bomb forward with impunity. So in many ways Keane's goal scoring return, is more comaprable theirs.

I do agree that we do need to add more goals from midfield next year though, thats why I would like to see us put in a bid for Elano if City buy heavily as expected. He is a ten goals a season man guaranteed.

agree ...... but I didnt draw any comparison to Lampard or Gerrard. Simply saying that the return from Jenas was incredibly poor given what benefits the others in the middle bring. He is meant to be a box to box midfielder, getting beyond the strikers regularly either scoring or assisting and he does neither. Not a great lover of stats as they can be interpreted to suit but would be interested to see Jenas assist stat.

 

[Hoowl]

I seem to remember us playing with 5 across the middle for at least half the season with either Bent or RP up front on their own and the goal return was paltry from midfield even then. Either Lennon or Modric need to score more if they are the attacking options which they do and are or we secure the services of a more dynamic CM to complement the strengths of Palacios ........i think the answer is a mixture of both as a goal from midfield once in every 11 games will def hold us back

I don't think anyone can claim we got the 451 formation working effectively. I've started another thread where we can discuss whether we score enough from midfield

 

[danielneeds]

I don't think anyone can claim we got the 451 formation working effectively. I've started another thread where we can discuss whether we score enough from midfield

Yep, and even when we started playing better with it under Harry, Modric playing in the hole is not a goal-scorer, he is a midfield creater and doesn't have the finishing power of someone like Arshavin. He is still only 24 though, so its definitely an area of his game he can improve.

 

[montylynch]

As someone earlier in the thread said, arsenal had 4 shots on goal all night. It was just one of those games. I watched the game and neither Bendtner nor fabregas had any sort of game.

It's all hindsight, whose to say that if we got arshavin he would have turned into another rebrov, there was no way he was going to come to us and i'm glad we didn't get him, aswell as the 'how do fit modric into a 4' threads we would have had 'how do we fit arshavin into a 4' thread. We needed Palacios more than we needed arshavin and that's been proved wholesale since january.

It was a great game anyway, seeing the scousers faces when they went 4-3 down was great.

 

[steve]

based on what. arshavin will be better next season. he has played more games then modric. has had less time to settle in and looks twice as effective. where do you get your theory from

No he doesn't. He scored 4 goals in one of the freakiest games you'll ever see and 2 of them he couldn't really miss (although he nearly did). The other 2 finishes were excellent but he was way off the pace in the first half.

That was pre Arshavin. Fairly confident they will trounce us next season and extend the gap between the two teams. He's their new talisman, made Fibreglass look like a bystander.

Absolute bollocks. Watch it again, and analyse his game outside of the goals. And let's ignore the fact Liverpool should've won by a country mile too...

who cares what arsholevin does at the scum
he has had 1 good game and had more than his rub of the green tonight
he looked crap up until his first goal
liverpool didnt exactly make it hard for him tonight did they .....
why dont all the arshavin lovers bugger off to one of the scum message boards where you can all have a spunkfest over him and his stupid retarded face(although not as retarded as nasri's)
remember this is a TOTTENHAM SUPPORTERS FORUM and no loving of any ar5ena1 player will be tolerated .... and as for saying they will beat us next year , you should be ashamed

Spot on.....

I'm glad you can find it funny, I wish I could laugh but my favorite player just scored four fucking goals for the scum :-(

Your favourite player?!! You're 12 right?

Bar the four goals I thought he was toilet. Not really that disappointed, he would of been a good addition to the team, but he's no Bergkamp.
Scored four, which is of course what the game is about, but taking that away, which admittedly defeats the purpose of the game, but go with me on this, I don't think he was that impressive.
He's not in Berkamp's league imo, and Fabregas still calls the shots in that team. One thing I have to give him credit for is getting into the box and having a fearsome and accurate stike, but tonight his dribbling skills were ineffective for the most part and I think next season teams will double up on him, and I think he'll be less effective.
I have a good feeling we'll finish top 3 next season.

Not even close to it....

When you score 4 goals in one game you don't have to be impressive to be honest. As for Bergkamp, no he isn't in Bergkamp's league, Arshavin's in the league above him.

Ah Fazza and his Arse obsession...it's clouding your judgement though....

Thats what I hope, but in reality I know AA will set the league on fire as I always new he would do.

You mean you want him too - not quite the same thing.....

Arshavin always was, is and will be the real deal. I was absoloutely gutted we didn't get him. If he'd have come in I am convinced our season would have started differently. He is that rare commodity in football - talent and work ethic - that when he signed for Arsenal I was still genuinly pleased for the little fella - that he'd got his move to the prem. He is in the Tevez profile (different players same attributes, skill and work rate).

I don't blame the club, or the player as I don't believe for a moment it was about the money on either part.

But I do wonder why we didn't go back in for him - make a 15-17m bid on the first of January instead of buying back one of Defoe or Keane. Arshavin is better than both.
Surely Zenit would have had to take our offer as there was no way Arsenal would have outbid us.

Work ethic my arse. I'd say he's a slightly better technical footballer than Tevez, but he comes nowhere near in terms of work ethic at all and certainly not on last nights evidence...

Your the one saying he was the lord of the land, everything went through him, did more than just score four goals yada, yada, yada.
I'm impressed that he scored four against pool, no doubt, but he won't do that every week, and I thought his general team play, and dribbling were below par tonight, toilet if you will. That's all.

Not toilet but not standout at all - his general play was certainly no better than Nasri's for example...

I personally don't get it. Tonight was one of the most bizarre games I have ever seen. Arsenal had four shots on target, four goals, all by the same player. Imo it's just one of those nights, not a chance to roll out the fucking boring Arshavin threads which have blighted this site for months because a few people can't get over that a footballer they'll never meet, speak to, have any connection with, didn't sign for us. Let it go.

Four goals against a Liverpool defence which looked more at home in a pool alongside the Ukrainian Women's Syncronised Swimming team, fantastic, lets all sit down and slits our wrists together.

As others have said, not the first to score four, not the last. As others have also said, we are on a pretty fantastic run at the moment, lets bang on about how good we are at the moment, not whinging about Arshavin again.

/Arshavin

Top quality post, nail hit on head....have some rep...

If you ignore the should we/shouldnt we have signed him when he had the chance argument one thing his performance last confirms is just how goal shy we are from midfield. If you take Lennon Jenas, Modric and Palacios as our midfield of choice at present they have scored 12 goals over a combined 128 matches so our first choice midfield contributes roughly 1 goal every 11 games.

This is a lamentable return and needs to be addressed in the summer and is one of the fundamental reasons as to why Jenas should be replaced. Palacios does a great job defensively and Lennon and Modric offer great threat and assists if not a goal return whereas Jenas simply offers next to nothing in an attacking sense let alone a reasonable goal return.

Ha ha brill Arshavin thread turns into pop at Jenas opportunity for TOY.....

Midfield stats should you want them....

http://telegraph.jumpmediagroup.com...tch=0&p2match=0&p1league=50&p2league=50#stats

 

[robbiesavagehasbreasts]

Steve calling Kendall a 12-year old sums it up for me.

It's one thing to idolize a football player, but it's another thing to love him so much you still love him when he's banging in 4 goals for Arsenal. And don't get me started about wanting to put his picture in your sig. What if Arshavin scores the winning goal against us next season?

Ridiculous.

 

[Kendall]

Steve calling Kendall a 12-year old sums it up for me.

It's one thing to idolize a football player, but it's another thing to love him so much you still love him when he's banging in 4 goals for Arsenal. And don't get me started about wanting to put his picture in your sig. What if Arshavin scores the winning goal against us next season?

Ridiculous.

I can't hide the fact that I am simply a football fan. I always had an obsession about Ronaldo (the proper one) when I was younger, I loved to watch him play and if he'd gone to the scum I wouldn't let some stupid clique that says you have to automatically hate all their players regardless of their quality purely because they pull on that shirt dictate what I enjoy watching and what I don't.

I love watching good football and he is the kind of player I just love to watch and appreciate. Every time he picked up the ball last night I wanted him to do something magical with it, when he scored his 4th I jumped up and clapped with the rest of my housemates, what a game, what a goal, what a player.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

:lol: This threads hilarious :lol:

You got a few of us, quite rightly impressed at his display last night, then there's the other side of the thread, with people bitching into the first lot for bigging up a Woolwich player, saying we haven't seen enough of him, aside from the 4 goals he was average last night, he's average full stop, not better than this player, or that player and that none of us could possibly know that much about him to make the call... :think:

Well, 2 things to consider here:

1) Don't you see the sweet, sweet irony in slating someone for forming an opinion on a player off, what you consider, to be too few appearances but are apparently able to argue them points and more, from seeing exactly the same amount of games! Unless you're a member of his direct family or a lifelong fan of Zenit/Russia then take a deep breath, read the post you're about to respond to, read your response and see if you don't feel like a complete tool for being such a hypocrite. :doh:

2) This is just because he's a Woolwich player. Tons of you did the same for WIIILSOON when he arrived, saying he was immense, how he would turn our team around, etc. simply because he had one good show against us, then had one good game for us after he signed and tons of you went bonkers.

Aside from that, Arshavin really is a superbly talented player who has shown, both for his country and now for his club (on one occasion) that he has that ability.

Now, how many of you cried out, as i did, for BAE to be sold after a season of being very, very average? Did he improve over time? Has he gotten up to speed with the Premier League and cemented the promise he showed with some actual performances? Yes, yes he has. Didier Drogba - 2 years before he showed any kind of talent at Chelsea, he was slated but he got up to speed and showed what he was capable of.

Arshavin has come into the league and has shown that, already, he has got the skills to pay the bills in front of goal. He's shown he can shoot like a marksman when given the room and the time and that's been acknowledged as a very impressive early show, a rare grasp of the way our league works.

If you want to start tearing into people for the sake of them admiring a new Woolwich player after one immensly impressive display, perhaps you'll forgive me for not listening to you whiney f*ckers. I enjoyed watching him last night, it doesn't mean i'm some kind of cretin. I'm a football fan and last night i was (to some extent) a neutral. Credit where credit's due and all that, the boy did good amongst a team that appeared to not be trying very hard at all.

Save it for Sol.

 

[steve]

I can't hide the fact that I am simply a football fan. I always had an obsession about Ronaldo (the proper one) when I was younger, I loved to watch him play and if he'd gone to the scum I wouldn't let some stupid clique that says you have to automatically hate all their players regardless of their quality purely because they pull on that shirt dictate what I enjoy watching and what I don't.

I love watching good football and he is the kind of player I just love to watch and appreciate. Every time he picked up the ball last night I wanted him to do something magical with it, when he scored his 4th I jumped up and clapped with the rest of my housemates, what a game, what a goal, what a player.

I don't think people should automatically hate players because they play for rivals, but this obsession with individual players makes no sense to me at all especially if you don't know them. Arse is a good player no doubt but I can name plenty of players better than him in the EPL alone. He's cheeky, he's skillful but he isn't that amazing that he deserves all the crap that's been written on here.

Maradona, Best, Pele, Cruyff, fat Ronaldo, maybe Zidane I can sort of understand being interested in but he's nowhere near that sort of league. Torres and Gerrard are far better players to my mind, genuine world class players who do it on a regular basis. I'm sure it's the cheeky, innovative, winger style that you love about him but that's a slightly immature attitude to my mind. I see kids trying to do the fancy stuff all the time, but they can't pass a ball straight over ten yards under pressure because they're obsessed with doing keepy uppies and flicks. Give me substance over style any day - the very best have both and he isn't the very best, far from it...

 

[jimmy-jojo]

How come no-one's whining that we didn't sign Torres...weren't we supposed to have been close to signing him also?

Much more impressive player than Arshavin...

 

[Dougal]

How come no-one's whining that we didn't sign Torres...weren't we supposed to have been close to signing him also?

Much more impressive player that Arshavin...

They will now...

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Maradona, Best, Pele, Cruyff, fat Ronaldo, maybe Zidane I can sort of understand being interested in but he's nowhere near that sort of league.

And how many of them would've walked into the Premiership and picked up their game straight away? And no being pathetically romantic - it is acknowledged world-wide that the EPL is like no other domestic league. It's faster, more physical and generally much more of a physical test, which is something you have to work up to after coming from a foreign league.

Torres and Gerrard are far better players to my mind, genuine world class players who do it on a regular basis.

Gerrard was bought up in the league, he has grown into the role he now holds and, as you mention Torres, he's about the only top-class player i can think of who has literally waltzed into the league and took it by the throat from day 1, yet even he admitted it was tough work raising his fitness level and powering on through the immense amount of time he spent battling on the pitch.

If Arshavin turned out like Torres, you really think that's less than the adulation he's received for his 4 goal haul? 4 goals - who was the last Spurs player to achieve that, even with months of experience under their belt? :shrug:

Lighten up, stop hating for hatings sake. Fair enough you don't like his smug face, but don't shoot down others for being (rightly) impressed by his show last night.

 

[idlepete]

Kendall; I appreciate where you're coming from dude, but seriously...

when he scored his 4th I jumped up and clapped with the rest of my housemates

You just made me sick up a little bit of my dinner man. Self-control, please.

 

[lishiyo]

They will now...

if you think we're bad - how do you think villa fans feel? they were riding high in third place, then bought heskey and shortly after that their form plummeted while l'arse bought arshavin and overtook them. they may never have such a great chance to finish fourth for a long, long time.

- or liverpool? they contacted his agent but couldn't close the keane deal in time. would he have been the difference in the title race during their poor form in the earlier part of the year? at least they would've taken all 3 from l'arse tonight, which could well decide number 19.



just noting that there are fans out there who probably ought to be more gutted than us, but they're not complaining as much :wink:

 

[Dougal]

if you think we're bad - how do you think villa fans feel? they were riding high in third place, then bought heskey and shortly after that their form plummeted while l'arse bought arshavin and overtook them. they may never have such a great chance to finish fourth for a long, long time.

- or liverpool? they contacted his agent but couldn't close the keane deal in time. would he have been the difference in the title race during their poor form in the earlier part of the year? at least they would've taken all 3 from l'arse tonight, which could well decide number 19.



just noting that there are fans out there who probably ought to be more gutted than us, but they're not complaining as much :wink:

I'm engaged to a Villa fan and my brother is a Liverpool fan who 'celebrated' his birthday yesterday watching that game. I'm fully aware of what they both think

 

[steve]

:lol: This threads hilarious :lol:

You got a few of us, quite rightly impressed at his display last night, then there's the other side of the thread, with people bitching into the first lot for bigging up a Woolwich player, saying we haven't seen enough of him, aside from the 4 goals he was average last night, he's average full stop, not better than this player, or that player and that none of us could possibly know that much about him to make the call... :think:

Well, 2 things to consider here:

1) Don't you see the sweet, sweet irony in slating someone for forming an opinion on a player off, what you consider, to be too few appearances but are apparently able to argue them points and more, from seeing exactly the same amount of games! Unless you're a member of his direct family or a lifelong fan of Zenit/Russia then take a deep breath, read the post you're about to respond to, read your response and see if you don't feel like a complete tool for being such a hypocrite. :doh:

2) This is just because he's a Woolwich player. Tons of you did the same for WIIILSOON when he arrived, saying he was immense, how he would turn our team around, etc. simply because he had one good show against us, then had one good game for us after he signed and tons of you went bonkers.

Aside from that, Arshavin really is a superbly talented player who has shown, both for his country and now for his club (on one occasion) that he has that ability.

Now, how many of you cried out, as i did, for BAE to be sold after a season of being very, very average? Did he improve over time? Has he gotten up to speed with the Premier League and cemented the promise he showed with some actual performances? Yes, yes he has. Didier Drogba - 2 years before he showed any kind of talent at Chelsea, he was slated but he got up to speed and showed what he was capable of.

Arshavin has come into the league and has shown that, already, he has got the skills to pay the bills in front of goal. He's shown he can shoot like a marksman when given the room and the time and that's been acknowledged as a very impressive early show, a rare grasp of the way our league works.

If you want to start tearing into people for the sake of them admiring a new Woolwich player after one immensly impressive display, perhaps you'll forgive me for not listening to you whiney f*ckers. I enjoyed watching him last night, it doesn't mean i'm some kind of cretin. I'm a football fan and last night i was (to some extent) a neutral. Credit where credit's due and all that, the boy did good amongst a team that appeared to not be trying very hard at all.

Save it for Sol.

You make some good points but you're assuming a lot about people on here and have very conveniently polarised ALL opinion into 2 camps.

I thought outside of the goals last night (and yes I know that sounds ridiculous) he did very little, especially first half. 2 of his goals he took very well but it was an unbelievable game that Liverpool should've won hands down and the fact he scored 4 goals was a freak which even he acknowledged by looking so surprised. I didn't think Arsenal didn't try that hard I just thought they were overwhelmed by a better team on the night.

I've watched a lot of Arshavin and think he's a very good player, but some people on here are making him out to be on a different level to players like Bergkamp and that's just remarkable to me. If he has half the impact of someone like DB he'll have done very well in the EPL.

I don't care who he plays for, I didn't think Palacios was the nuts after 1 game and I don't think Arshavin is shit, not at all.

But please allow me to respond in a way that doesn't quite fit into your handy compartmentalisation of what everyone else has said. Read the posts again - you're right about some people but certainly not all....