It's the Euros 2020! Finals Match Thread: It’s gone to Rome…

[Amo]

You are possibly and most likely right that even if the manager had shown more bravery and forward thinking and brought on Grealish when the score was 0-0 when the momentum had clearly shifted, England probably still would have lost. However, in a home cup final, he didnt, he let the game pass by and let Englands most talented players sit on the bench for too long.

If you are going to lose, you are better off having a go and show the right intent and not just lose like a wimper. Any spurs fan that have watched Spurs in last 18 months should know this.

Sure, if he knew we'd lose then yes, that would have been a good option. He didn't know it, and we didn't even lose in the match proper.

I'm not saying Southgate isn't responsible for losing. Of course he is. He's the boss. The players are also responsible but they're not the boss so they're burdened with less of it.

He's the one that must take the majority of the blame and I'm not trying to suggest otherwise. But that doesn't mean the criticisms and alternative strategies being offered are then correct by default. They're not and I strongly suspect "bringing on the big guns" to chase another goal and a bigger lead would have seen us either draw 2-2 anyway or, more likely, lost to a team that knows how to control not just the match but the psyche.

 

[Jamturk]

Why did kane not take the last penalty. Surely you put your best taker last? Especially if you go second as all the pressure is on that last kick.

It could be over by then.

After saying that though Saka shouldn't have been on it either .

 

[freeeki]

Turns out football forgot to complete its PCR test and passenger locator form, so it will be home next year instead.

 

[Dougal]

Turns out football forgot to complete its PCR test and passenger locator form, so it will be home next year instead.

 

[PLTuck]

I understand the aim of this kind of action but I disagree.

Difficult issues are better in the open where they can be confronted and defeated.

I can't say I disagree. I think my stance is a kneejerk reaction to last night. But every time I hear about it or see it on the news i just think "Right, enough is enough. Something HAS to be done".

What is so demoralising / disappointing to me is that it really isn't a difficult thing to do to not be abusive to other human beings solely because of their skin pigmentation, or because of where their parents or grandparents were born. It's not like we are asking people to cure world poverty.

Leadership saying it's ok to boo the players taking the knee has just further empowered these wankers.

 

[Shadydan]

Racial abuse for the black players, was obvious wasn't it.

Sick of this Shit I really am.

Don't usually react to ratings but @Tony-Bish I take it the funny was done by accident?

 

[DarwinSpur]

Just on the game. I' m certainly no expert but it seems to me that England doesn't have the quality midfielders required to play possession based play and, indeed, to use Kane to his best ability.. England's quality is in it's wide players and fullbacks so Southgate's tactics always made sense to me - and even if it wasnt to Kane's striker strengths he used Kane like Mourinho did with good effect.

Semi Final of World Cup. FInal of Euros. I'd say he's been proved right.

If England had a De Bruyne or a Pogba... but they don't.

Onions

 

[UncleBuck]

For all his faults, and there are quite a few, Sterling’s biggest one last night was not stepping up and leaving Saka to take the fifth penalty.
The pens were a joke and Southgate got it so wrong, if you wanted sancho and rashford to take one at least give them ten minutes on the pitch! As a senior pro though he needed to be taking that, personally I don’t understand why it wasn’t given to Pickford who behind Kane is probably England’s best penalty taker.

Calling myself out here! Just seen that Southgate has said he decided who was taking pens after training.
If that is the case then I’m sorry but they’ve got that so wrong, especially when you’ve now got grealish coming out and saying that he wanted to take one.

 

[Lumiere]

We really need a rule change for these "professional fouls". There is absolutely no reason why you should be yanking a player down by his neck in a game of football, it makes no sense why this isn't a red card.

 

[Julmust]

View attachment 91993

We really need a rule change for these "professional fouls". There is absolutely no reason why you should be yanking a player down by his neck in a game of football, it makes no sense why this is still allowed.

It’s not allowed. It was a free kick and a yellow card. Are you saying that pulling someone’s shirt should always result in a red?

 

[Guernman]

View attachment 91993

We really need a rule change for these "professional fouls". There is absolutely no reason why you should be yanking a player down by his neck in a game of football, it makes no sense why this isn't a red card.

In this particular instance I would argue that that was violent behaviour rather than just a professional foul and should have been red.

 

[Guernman]

In this particular instance I would argue that that was violent behaviour rather than just a professional foul and should have been red.

The Ref was way too lenient in any case - Chiellini should already have been booked by that point

 

[yankspurs]

Calling myself out here! Just seen that Southgate has said he decided who was taking pens after training.
If that is the case then I’m sorry but they’ve got that so wrong, especially when you’ve now got grealish coming out and saying that he wanted to take one.

Southgate should 100% lose his job if that was his choice. Especially after a player just went public. But England probably has more important things to worry about atm. Because if I was FIFA & UEFA, a multi break stadium ban is the least im thinking of right now.

 

[TheTanguy]

Southgate should 100% lose his job if that was his choice.

He said so himself:

"I chose the penalty takers based on what we've done in training and nobody is on their own. We've won together as a team and it's absolutely on all of us in terms of not being able to win the game tonight," said England boss Gareth Southgate. But in terms of the penalties, that's my call and totally rests with me."

 

[idontgetit]

The lads have been absolutely brilliant throughout this tournament, so many class performances from individual players that you can't really pick any individual out. They've been a team, a proper team and England haven't had that in my lifetime. I'm just gutted Kane couldn't get a trophy under his belt.

 

[hellava_tough]

The hubris and arrogance is astonishing. "We had the players to do what we wanted," as if another formation wouldn't have seen a different response from Italy and that they'd just play the exact same way they played in the first half.

Italy are a very impressive team that haven't lost in 34 games. They were torn to shreds in the first half last night and they changed the system to take back some control. Because they're a good team and they have one of the world's best managers (and even that manager was comprehensively outcoached in his semi-final but imagine he lost that shootout and faced demands for the sack). We were unable to get another goal during tjst early blitz but to suggest continuing to play that way after they switched their shape and filled out the middle of the pitch is just lunacy. It's not how it works.

Our players went from being composed upon winning back the ball throughout the tournament to suddenly forgetting how to pass, ceding the ball over and over again until they changed formation themselves (and bought balance back to the match thereafter). That's it. Otherwise, we didn't let Italy threaten too much and had to contend with their two pensioner CBs having pretty much perfect games.

There were mistakes. The choice of penalty takers is all on Southgate and in hindsight Henderson was the wrong way to bring back composure. But in the moment nobody I was watching with thought he'd have such a poor time of it upon coming in.

Otherwise, another goal in those early phases and it would be a different game and different discussion now. But it wasn't. Not because we "didn't do what we want" as if Italy would just let us have their way with them, but because they held on when in peril in the first hald, we fell just short in the second.

Back to back semi finals and a final draw against the tournament's best side, for a team that hadn't been in a final for nearly six decades and even then it's in spite of him not because of him? Right. Honestly seems like so many would rather we went out to Germany 3-1 after being turned over on the counter three times and getting lauded for the "heroic" brave effort because Sancho broke their offside trap and Gealish nutmegged Muller.

I think that's a little bit over the top tbh.

It's more a case of reviewing performances and asking the questions, "Did we play to our strengths? Was there anything we could have changed?"

I don't think many people are saying it was ever going to be easy.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The thing that still has me flummoxed the morning after - Southgate must have known Sterling was not one of his top players for Pens. And, that's fine, they aren't for everyone. But, given that, Rashford and/or Sancho should have been on at the start of ET just to get them to work out some of the nerves and energy.

You will never convince me that they could not have provided the same level of play as Sterling in the ET, so I am not buying "I had to make sure we got to Pens"

 

[Guernman]

I'm going to put this out there because I am curious for some feedback...

I think penalties are a horrible and ridiculous way for matches like this to be decided. It is a team sport and no individual should be the scapegoat like this.

My solution is as follows: From extra-time onwards shots on target, followed by possession in the opposition half should be the two metrics that decide the winner in case of a draw. There needs to be some system of lighting which the players and the crowd can all see which indicates which team is winning based on those metrics at any particular point. One big green light lit on the currently winning team's side.

Because it would be based on at least two metrics of decreasing importance the situation could change in an instant at any moment. But the teams won't know. For example, it might take just one more shot on target to flip. It would mean teams would play attacking football instead of sitting back to take it to penalties. No more lottery and scapegoats, but an exciting and fair way to finish a match.

 

[spursfan77]

View attachment 91993

We really need a rule change for these "professional fouls". There is absolutely no reason why you should be yanking a player down by his neck in a game of football, it makes no sense why this isn't a red card.

Jorginho should have gone too. It was a definite red card his challenge on Grealish.

 

[ohtottenham!]

I don't think there's much analysis required for what went wrong last night.

England were in the ascendance for the opening 20 mins, we should have gone for them right there and then and battered them. But Italy were growing more confident as the first half went on, and by the last 10 mins England were shaky, pegged back into a 5-4-1, and no one dared break out of position. Mancini could see it as clear as the rest of us, and so brought his extra wingers on; which prevented our wing backs from getting forward and as such we lost control of the ball.

It was at that point, 50/55 mins in that Southgate should have brought Grealish and Henderson on for Mount and Sterling. To regain control of the ball in the middle of the field, and to help our defence from getting more and more stretched. Unsurprisingly he did nowt, and Italy pressed home the advantage they'd been building since the 35th minute. After that, he continued to dither over changes, even in extra time.

And as for bringing on two young players in the last minute, with the task of winning the tournament, with no game time to speak of... Absolutely scandalous putting them under that much pressure like that. Italy will have been delighted, as they'll back themselves to win via penalties any day.

This is a very good England side, with very good players, and all their effort this last few weeks deserved better than that gutless display from Southgate.

Good post. I agree with your main point about Southgate getting it very wrong at critical points in the game. Biggest advantage Italy had over us was Mancini over Southgate. It wasn’t about Italy bringing extra wingers on and I know they brought on Berardi, who wouldn’t even make our squad.

It was more about taking Immobile off so that they had more fluidity and movement across their forward line so that they could stretch our flanks. Even before that, just for example, it was alarming that Chiellini was spending so much time in our own defensive third, let alone our own half. It would be interesting to know the half-time team talks from both managers.

There were adjustments that Mancini made re Veratti and Jorginho’s movement and positioning so that they could link more effectively with their forwards but this also made them more vulnerable defensively. Mancini took the risk. Southgate did nothing to react.

We had both Di Lorenzo and Emerson, not great FBs/WBs, camped in our own half and getting down their attacking flanks with little fear of counter attacks. Southgate froze because we gave no answer on the pitch despite the quality and tools we had both on the pitch and bench to counter Italy’s tactics with our own.

We lost so much momentum, initiative and control of that game that by the time we introduced Henderson and Saka, the whole team was out of synch, and we saw it in the nervous performances of both subs; both of whom generally react well to pressure.

I think the key is in Southgate’s own comments re his own weaknesses not just squad weaknesses. He was very concerned about our inability to beat the high press against Denmark and said we needed to find solutions against Italy’s more intensive press.

He just said against Italy that when they went to a false nine, it was a difficult problem to solve. The solutions he has are limited by his own ultra-cautious approach.

Italy are good but they ain’t that good. They have very creative CM options which we don’t. We have a much better attack, we match them in the backline, and have far better options off the bench. They have a great coach who understands the whole game, from defence through attack, and applies that understanding to extract the maximum from his team/squad.

Southgate isn’t anywhere close to that level. Those problems will remain with Southgate regardless of who we have in our future squads and we have some great players. We could have won the shootout, but more importantly, we could have won the actual game beforehand.