Jenas

[mabolsa_ritchey]

I personally think we really miss Jenas when hes out.

 

[guy]

It's blindingly obvious we miss JJ when he's out! Another example yesterday

 

[stamford-hillbilly]

Of course we miss Jenas, our midfield is a lot more fluid with him in it. Unfortunately for him he's had to play with Zokora and Hudd during his spurs career.

 

[Michey]

It's blindingly obvious we miss JJ when he's out! Another example yesterday

Ok, let's say we missed him.

What could we have expected from Jenas yesterday?

 

[stamford-hillbilly]

If we had some quality Dm alongside Jenas, you would see his quality; 2005/06 we had Carrick and Davids.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Ok, let's say we missed him.

What could we have expected from Jenas yesterday?

The role I see Jenas playing when he returns is the last man in front of the defence, the role that Huddlestone has been so ineffective in the last two games. Unlike Huddlestone, Jenas has the engine and the speed to cover the ground in the gap in front of the back four. His role would be simple, get his foot in and hassle the man on the ball whenever it is in front of the defence and when on the ball play the simple pass, don't hang onto it and get caught in possession, but play it out simply.

Jenas does get caught in possession too much, his touch often lets him down and his passing can be a poor if he tries to do too much. With Jenas playing in that role it would allow Huddlestone to play higher, would mean Huddlestone would now be in a pressing role defensively rather than a tackling role, and would put him in a position to play simpler, but more effective passes. He would be the recipient of the majority of Jenas' simple passes out from defence.

That is what I would expect from Jenas.

 

[talkshowhost86]

We miss him when he doesn't play and I don't know how people can't see that.

His energy in midfield is vital for us even if he does give the ball away sometimes. In defence that's crucial particularly against a team like Everton.

Zokora and Huddlestone couldn't control the game against a good 4 man midfield let alone 5. JJ is far from the perfect player and if we get a good DM in January then that may the end for him, but until then he's our best central midfielder without a doubt.

 

[Michey]

The role I see Jenas playing when he returns is the last man in front of the defence, the role that Huddlestone has been so ineffective in the last two games. Unlike Huddlestone, Jenas has the engine and the speed to cover the ground in the gap in front of the back four. His role would be simple, get his foot in and hassle the man on the ball whenever it is in front of the defence and when on the ball play the simple pass, don't hang onto it and get caught in possession, but play it out simply.

You know what. I'd actually agree on this :up:

If he can be a destructive force (for our opposition) in midfield i'd buy that....and i even think he'd do it good....and even better with some extra muscles.

I'd even go so far as.....together with Zokora we would have two destructive midfielders that could alternate on this position and do it superb. Concentrate on defence and leave the attacking part for our brains in central midfield - Modric and Huddlestone......and maybe some new face in the transfer-window.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

You know what. I'd actually agree on this :up:

If he can be a destructive force (for our opposition) in midfield i'd buy that....and i even think he'd do it good....and even better with some extra muscles.

I'd even go so far as.....together with Zokora we would have two destructive midfielders that could alternate on this position and do it superb. Concentrate on defence and leave the attacking part for our brains in central midfield - Modric and Huddlestone......and maybe some new face in the transfer-window.

Exactly. We have to make use of what he is good at, and then simplify the rest of his role. I like him as a player, unlike you, but his passing does infuriate people but if he keeps it short and tidy he is more than capable. If he can provide an energetic cover and play it simple into Huddlestone and Modric he would be a major asset to the team.

Must be a good idea if even you like it Michey. It might be the first time I've heard you ever say anything remotely positive about Jenas. :grin:

 

[mil1lion]

The thing with Huddlestone, Zokora and Jenas is, they all need a good quality defensive midfielder in there. All three are good in their own right but they all need someone else alongside eachother. Ideally in a 5 man midfield with 2 of them playing with a new defensive midfielder. Neither of those 3 take enough responsability and show enough to really boss our midfield. We really need someone who will sit in front of the defence and bring the best out of the rest of these players. Someone to lead our team and take the responsability that neither midfielder is prepared to take. Only then will we see the best of Huddlestone, Zokora and Jenas.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

The thing with Huddlestone, Zokora and Jenas is, they all need a good quality defensive midfielder in there. All three are good in their own right but they all need someone else alongside eachother. Ideally in a 5 man midfield with 2 of them playing with a new defensive midfielder. Neither of those 3 take enough responsability and show enough to really boss our midfield. We really need someone who will sit in front of the defence and bring the best out of the rest of these players. Someone to lead our team and take the responsability that neither midfielder is prepared to take. Only then will we see the best of Huddlestone, Zokora and Jenas.

What do you do with Modric then? He has to play centrally also.

 

[Michey]

Must be a good idea if even you like it Michey. It might be the first time I've heard you ever say anything remotely positive about Jenas. :grin:

Hehe, the idea is a great one...and now let's hope the one's in charge can see it too. :up:

You might not believe this but i'm quite certain i had Jenas as MOTM against Man City in the League Cup last year.....yup you heard right....we we're playing with 10 men and he ran like hell to cut off Citys attempts in midfield......so we know he could succeed in our brilliant idea for him. :smile:

 

[mil1lion]

What do you do with Modric then? He has to play centrally also.

At the moment i'd have to play him in from the left. With the current team i think we need all three of Huddlestone, Zokora and Jenas to play. I dont think 2 of the 3 together is quiete good enough. The 3 of them together have the qualities needed in midfield. But the best teams only need 2 players to cover all the requirements in centre midfield.

It really depends on who we can sign in January though. In the long run we ought to play Modric in the middle but then we'd really need a left winger and a defensive midfielder. I'm not sure if we'll be able to get the right players in January though. So i'm wrong in saying that we need a defensive midfielder with 2 of the 3, we need a new defensive midfielder with 1 of the 3, and Luka Modric, and ideally a new left winger.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

At the moment i'd have to play him in from the left. With the current team i think we need all three of Huddlestone, Zokora and Jenas to play. I dont think 2 of the 3 together is quiete good enough. The 3 of them together have the qualities needed in midfield. But the best teams only need 2 players to cover all the requirements in centre midfield.

It really depends on who we can sign in January though. In the long run we ought to play Modric in the middle but then we'd really need a left winger and a defensive midfielder. I'm not sure if we'll be able to get the right players in January though. So i'm wrong in saying that we need a defensive midfielder with 2 of the 3, we need a new defensive midfielder with 1 of the 3, and Luka Modric, and ideally a new left winger.

Modric on the left makes me want to cry. He is so influential at bringing players into the game that he has to be played centrally. He has the vision and awareness to find a player on the left, right or either striker. He also gives the central midfielders a much better option to play into as he gets close enough to them. Playing on the left negates all of that and he just becomes a decent left sided player. Playing centrally everyone else plays better as well.

I don't think there is any situation where I would want to play Modric on the left. He is our best player. Just because he can play on the left isn't a good enough reason. I would rather sacrifice somebody else and keep Modric in the centre. I have no problem with Jenas and Huddlestone behind him at all, as long as Jenas is the deepest player. You can always play O'Hara on the left and have him tuck in defensively if you are worried about covering the defence, but we've not been that bad defensively.

The bigger problem is we waste the ball from midfield and it keeps coming back at us. With Modric centrally we instantly use the ball better, he almost sucks Huddlestone higher up and brings in Lennon and Bentley wide. We keep the ball much better when he is there.

 

[wooderz]

IOMLS I can't agree more, tried to rep you but got denied

 

[Michey]

Modric on the left makes me want to cry. He is so influential at bringing players into the game that he has to be played centrally. He has the vision and awareness to find a player on the left, right or either striker. He also gives the central midfielders a much better option to play into as he gets close enough to them. Playing on the left negates all of that and he just becomes a decent left sided player. Playing centrally everyone else plays better as well.

I don't think there is any situation where I would want to play Modric on the left. He is our best player. Just because he can play on the left isn't a good enough reason. I would rather sacrifice somebody else and keep Modric in the centre. I have no problem with Jenas and Huddlestone behind him at all, as long as Jenas is the deepest player. You can always play O'Hara on the left and have him tuck in defensively if you are worried about covering the defence, but we've not been that bad defensively.

The bigger problem is we waste the ball from midfield and it keeps coming back at us. With Modric centrally we instantly use the ball better, he almost sucks Huddlestone higher up and brings in Lennon and Bentley wide. We keep the ball much better when he is there.

You definitely makes alot of sense today. Great post and i can only agree

 

[thfc_2004]

At the moment i'd have to play him in from the left. With the current team i think we need all three of Huddlestone, Zokora and Jenas to play. I dont think 2 of the 3 together is quiete good enough. The 3 of them together have the qualities needed in midfield. But the best teams only need 2 players to cover all the requirements in centre midfield.

Tried that away at Fulham and we were dismal.

To me Modric is ideal for playing in the hole with two strikers ahead of him - a system that we've never played.

As with Bentley I feel Modric he's another signing that doesn't quite fit in to our team, despite his evident quality. To play him centrally in a 4-4-2 means you have a very lightweight midfield - and I don't think playing him behind a main striker in a 4-5-1 is that much of a threat.

 

[AnotherSpursFan]

Modric on the left makes me want to cry. He is so influential at bringing players into the game that he has to be played centrally. He has the vision and awareness to find a player on the left, right or either striker. He also gives the central midfielders a much better option to play into as he gets close enough to them. Playing on the left negates all of that and he just becomes a decent left sided player. Playing centrally everyone else plays better as well.

I don't think there is any situation where I would want to play Modric on the left. He is our best player. Just because he can play on the left isn't a good enough reason. I would rather sacrifice somebody else and keep Modric in the centre. I have no problem with Jenas and Huddlestone behind him at all, as long as Jenas is the deepest player. You can always play O'Hara on the left and have him tuck in defensively if you are worried about covering the defence, but we've not been that bad defensively.

The bigger problem is we waste the ball from midfield and it keeps coming back at us. With Modric centrally we instantly use the ball better, he almost sucks Huddlestone higher up and brings in Lennon and Bentley wide. We keep the ball much better when he is there.

I agree, if we keep the ball and use it efficiently we don't really need a DM, not saying that we have a DM at the momment.
Look at Fulham, bullard and Murphy not entirely heavyweights are they.

 

[mil1lion]

Modric on the left makes me want to cry. He is so influential at bringing players into the game that he has to be played centrally. He has the vision and awareness to find a player on the left, right or either striker. He also gives the central midfielders a much better option to play into as he gets close enough to them. Playing on the left negates all of that and he just becomes a decent left sided player. Playing centrally everyone else plays better as well.

I don't think there is any situation where I would want to play Modric on the left. He is our best player. Just because he can play on the left isn't a good enough reason. I would rather sacrifice somebody else and keep Modric in the centre. I have no problem with Jenas and Huddlestone behind him at all, as long as Jenas is the deepest player. You can always play O'Hara on the left and have him tuck in defensively if you are worried about covering the defence, but we've not been that bad defensively.

The bigger problem is we waste the ball from midfield and it keeps coming back at us. With Modric centrally we instantly use the ball better, he almost sucks Huddlestone higher up and brings in Lennon and Bentley wide. We keep the ball much better when he is there.

I know, i know. Thinking about Spurs' best team is like thinking of Englands at the moment. Plenty of good quality players, but not enough of the right players to keep the balance. Modric is definitely at his best playing as the advanced central midfielder and you might be right about Huddlestone and Jenas being good enough for now. But i think those two and even if you add Zokora or O'Hara to that, in a 2 man central midfield, they will get overun at times and they're too inconsistent. So we still have the same problems in midfield as we've had for a couple of years now. Modric Replaces Berbatov for link up play and Bent or Pav replace Keane for the goals.

All this shows to me is that, despite several more signings in the summer, we still haven't addressed the right areas. Maybe i'm too critical on them. We haven't conceded too many goals of late, as you say. I just keep seeing these gaps appear in front of the defence and expect the worst. But those gaps dont appear so much with 3 central midfielders in there. And i'm not convinced we're lethal enough at the other end to outscore the opposition. Not like we were with Keane and Berbatov up front. The only way we could replace their goals is to play with both Pav and Bent up top. And the only way we can create that extra bit of genius is by playing Modric in attacking centre midfield.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I think at the moment our best midfield two would be JJ and Modric but I would still have worries that people may go through them a bit to easily.

Maybe if we had a striker who dropped a bit deeper it would be ok but both Pav and Bent will always be inclined to play up top.

For now I'd stick with JJ - Modric - Hudd/Zokora and just play one up front. But if we buy a DM in January then maybe he could play with Modric in a 4...who knows. That would spell the end for JJ of course which would be a shame and also something that I don't think will happen.

So basically I've got no idea what we do.

I think maybe we should play 5 in midfield till January (JJ - Modric - Zokora/Hudd)

Then we will sign a DM. After that at home we can play Modric - DM and away from home we can play JJ - Modric - DM.

Maybe.