Jol Slags in the Rags

[DoublePivot]

Jol: Tottenham Can't Finish Top Four

Former Tottenham boss Martin Jol has claimed his old club have no chance of breaking into the top four, insisting the financial barrier is simply too great…


The Dutchman was recently unveiled as the new manager of SV Hamburger, his first post after being sacked by Spurs last October following a poor start to the season.

The former ADO Den Haag midfielder, who earned three caps for his country, twice came close to leading the Lilywhites into that rarefied air of Champions League qualification.

In 2006, Spurs went into the final game of the season sitting in fourth place, but lost to surrender the spot to North London rivals Arsenal.

The club have since failed to mount a serious challenge to the traditional table-toppers, but new boss Juande Ramos is keen to remedy, having already signalled his ambition with the ₤16.5 million purchase of Croatian star Luka Modric.

But Jol is less optimistic, insisting the discrepancy in funds between Spurs and the likes of Chelsea and Manchester United is too great to overcome in the foreseeable future.

“When I was with Spurs we finished fifth twice,” he said. “It’s not realistic for Tottenham to be top four because the financial differences are too much. Everton were the last club to do it and that was merely a one-off.”

 

[DoublePivot]

Not terrible but it is rather bordering on sour grapes, which he is well above.

But in the meantime, he is losing his talisman, his defense is older than dirt and his strikers are absolute shit. So why is he even worried about us.

 

[Mullers]

He is just being realistic. For us to qualify year in and year out we have to displace one of the current top four. Thats a big ask for a team that finished 11th last season.

 

[flatback4]

Two ways of looking at BMJ's quote - provided it's been accurately reported - that it's 'unrealistic' for Tottenham to be a top-4 club.

If that's a belief he's always held, then his entire time as our manager was based on dishonesty. Claiming in public an ambition to be a top-4 club while in private believing that ambition wasn't possible was cheating players and supporters alike. And proving himself to be less of a man that we always thought he was.

On the other hand, after his time in charge and having had a few months off to think about it, maybe he's just now come round to the view that for us to be a top-4 club is unrealistic. It'd have been clearer if he'd said something like "I once believed Tottenham could be a top-4 club - but now I don't", but if that's his honestly-held opinion now, fair enough.

Think he's wrong though - as the poster says, maybe just sour grapes at the way he was kicked out. But I'd have expected better from him.

 

[asianspur]

Well said, Flatback4.

 

[lily_lane]

You don't say which paper it's from?

If it's the Sun......

 

[jimmy-jojo]

This nothing new...he was saying the same thing while he was still our manager, that's why he got the sack!

 

[KeaneIsKeane]

I think it is possible. I'm sorry you feel differently Big Man. It is not easy and it takes making almost every purchase count and having to take some risks, but we can do it. If he could take us within one win of 4th. I don't see how he can think we can't get 4th.

 

[DC_Boy]

AS I've said many a time and I think Jol alludes to in his ref to Everton, there's a massive massive diference between breaking into the top 4 or turning it into a big 5 and merely finishing in the top 4 of the league once a decade or so

Everton did the latter but in no way did they break into the top 4 as their next year's performances and their lack of trophies since 1995 are ample evidence

the big 4 don't just regularly finish top 4, they win trophies, lots of them - and if they're not winning trophies they're quite often making major finals

now if AFC continue their recent barren streak for another couple of years then cracks will start to appear in their Big 4 status esecially if it's coupled with a slip from top 4 finishes

ditto re Pool - with another year's grace as they've won a trophy more recently

but such has the big 4's utter dominance it will take an incredible effort to break into that clique - with a recent trophy and a couple of 5th places we're closest - but the prize is a long way off ATM

 

[madroosta]

It's still papertalk as far as I'm concerned. If he said it lets be honest he's not far from the truth and if he didn't then just the press using him a stheir scapegoat for a story.

 

[spurslenny]

This nothing new...he was saying the same thing while he was still our manager, that's why he got the sack!

spot on:clap:

 

[Rocksuperstar]

This nothing new...he was saying the same thing while he was still our manager, that's why he got the sack!

spot on:clap:

:lol: pair of jokers...

So someone shows a bit of realism and you come out with shit like that - was he asked to get top four? No. Did he say that his team was a work in progress, on a five year strategy that he wasn't allowed to complete? Did he say that it would be a couple of seasons before he could see Spurs having a side that would be able to compete on the pitch with the top four, or did he give an interview to the observer regarding our financial situation and it's to that you're referring? :shrug:

Don't throw out of context comments around when they are nothing but honest and real - i wonder if you two are journos... :think:

I'd like to read/hear the entire interview as it happens - sounds like it could be interesting to hear Martin's retrospective view on English football as a whole, now he's played and managed here :up:

 

[eddiebailey]

Deadwood, interesting topic title, bearing little relation to the content of the post. Have you considered a career working for the red tops?

Since Jol came within an ace of finishing fourth I would be surprised if he thought it impossible as a one-off, but he is correct about the massive gap. Which was recognised by the Board at the time when he was appointed, and why Arnesen devised a long term strategy. Jol was unfortunate in that after Arnesen's departure the goalposts were moved.

 

[TheWaddler]

His memory must be failing him, as we were a dodgy lasagne away from qualifying whilst he was in charge.

If it's impossible then why try? All it will take is for Ferguson to retire, Chelsea to appoint the wrong man, Rafa to walk or Wenger to lose a couple more players and replace them with 17 year olds from Ivory Coast and the door is ajar. A team with ambition could jump in and stay there. Personally I think Jol always lacked that ambition - he was a small club manager managing one of the world's richest clubs - a miss-match that was always going to end in tears.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

His memory must be failing him, as we were a dodgy lasagne away from qualifying whilst he was in charge.

If it's impossible then why try? All it will take is for Ferguson to retire, Chelsea to appoint the wrong man, Rafa to walk or Wenger to lose a couple more players and replace them with 17 year olds from Ivory Coast and the door is ajar. A team with ambition could jump in and stay there.

But that's his point - it's got to the point now where the money is so much more important. The biggest clubs suck up more and more money every year, leaving the rest with less and less. The more money they get, the more they can waft at the top players and staff and, as long as there isn't a real financial bomb somewhere in there then these clubs will stay at the top of the stack and continue to widen that gap wherever possible - the further away from their nearest rival they are the better - this is business now, not a game anymore. It's ruthless and will mean some clubs boards shaking hands and smiling as a rival goes bankrupt.

The fact stands that whilst people like the Laughing Gnome and his family and Roman and his mob are in charge at these clubs then they will never be poor and will be able to replace managers and players as they see fit.

Is that what we want the game to become? Soon we'll be as riveted to the financial charts as we are to the league table - at the end of the season, the bottom three teams get liquidated and all their assets divided up amongst the top two.

Might as well get started now :shrug:

Personally I think Jol always lacked that ambition - he was a small club manager managing one of the world's richest clubs - a miss-match that was always going to end in tears.

What, because of his results? Because of something he said to the press? Did he upset the dressing room? The fans?

No. The real reason he was doomed, weather you want to admit it or not, was because the board sided with Comolli, the pair never got on, Martin was pushed out because the board were told Ramos could be swayed and he's apparently as infallible as Jesus. The end.

 

[TheWaddler]

But that's his point - it's got to the point now where the money is so much more important. The biggest clubs suck up more and more money every year, leaving the rest with less and less. The more money they get, the more they can waft at the top players and staff and, as long as there isn't a real financial bomb somewhere in there then these clubs will stay at the top of the stack and continue to widen that gap wherever possible - the further away from their nearest rival they are the better - this is business now, not a game anymore. It's ruthless and will mean some clubs boards shaking hands and smiling as a rival goes bankrupt.

The fact stands that whilst people like the Laughing Gnome and his family and Roman and his mob are in charge at these clubs then they will never be poor and will be able to replace managers and players as they see fit.

Is that what we want the game to become? Soon we'll be as riveted to the financial charts as we are to the league table - at the end of the season, the bottom three teams get liquidated and all their assets divided up amongst the top two.

Might as well get started now :shrug:

I don't disagree that money rules, or that it is hard to break in, but "The top four" © Sky Sports 2004, is not set in stone.

What, because of his results? Because of something he said to the press? Did he upset the dressing room? The fans?

No. The real reason he was doomed, weather you want to admit it or not, was because the board sided with Comolli, the pair never got on, Martin was pushed out because the board were told Ramos could be swayed and he's apparently as infallible as Jesus. The end.

Don't disagree that he was undermined to an extent, but he was a small club manager:

1991–95 ADO Den Haag (amateurs)
1995–96 Scheveningen (amateurs)
1996–98 Roda JC
1998–2004 RKC Waalwijk
2004–2007 Tottenham Hotspur

Spot the odd one out? IMHO he brought that small club mentality with him. How did I form that opinion? Sitting at WHL week in week out watching the piss poor football he put out: 4 central midfielders in the line-up, long ball football, running the ball into the corner flags when 2-1 up at home to Wigan, etc, etc. I could go on and on. Yes it got us reasonable "success" (I missed the bus parades for those 5th place finishes), but it was dire and unstatisfactory and not enough to beat the best teams - evidenced by one win over "The Top Four" while he was in charge.

 

[donny1013]

Lets just hope Juande doesnt think its impossible. I would say now there is a top 2 that is becoming uncatchable. As for finishing in the top 4 it all depends on the comings and goings at Liverpool and Woolwich, i certainly think 4th is there for the taking and not just for us, Everton and Villa will be up there as well.

 

[worcestersauce]

I think this is less of a statement on Tottenhams prospects and more of an indictment of the state of the English Premier League and how everything is skewed by the advantage CL money bestows on qualifying clubs.
If a club like us can just get in and stay in for two or three years knocking arsenal or liverpool out then they would find it harder each year to get back in, to the other two money is no object anyway.

 

[Diewhingywenger]

Don't really know why he is getting stick, he's being realistic.

 

[spurslenny]

:lol: pair of jokers...

So someone shows a bit of realism and you come out with shit like that - was he asked to get top four? No. Did he say that his team was a work in progress, on a five year strategy that he wasn't allowed to complete? Did he say that it would be a couple of seasons before he could see Spurs having a side that would be able to compete on the pitch with the top four, or did he give an interview to the observer regarding our financial situation and it's to that you're referring? :shrug:

Don't throw out of context comments around when they are nothing but honest and real - i wonder if you two are journos... :think:

I'd like to read/hear the entire interview as it happens - sounds like it could be interesting to hear Martin's retrospective view on English football as a whole, now he's played and managed here :up:

not saying i agree with jol getting sacked or the reason jol got sacked. just seemed to me that IF jol was saying top 4 was achievable early in his spurs career and then realised it was'nt and IF he was saying one thing publically and an other to the spurs board, then that might have been the reason that levy decided to get shot.
levy might have taken what jol was saying and thinking as lack of ambition or belief or both.

since i, and i guess you, have no idea what the real reason was for jol's departure, i can only hypothosise.