Jose Mourinho

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Wasn’t intending to patronise, apologies, just frustrated over the bed wetting in reaction to yesterday. I’m as upset as anyone else but the site today has been a big bag of aids. Mourinho’s is toxic, the chairman is a money grabbing whelp, every player is shit, the stadium was a waste of money. But Sunday morning when we were hyped up by the documentary and happy with our transfers barring the lack of striker so far, not a peep. I hate the hypocrisy and I hate the fickleness. It was one match. A shit match, but still just one match, and this place looks like the last days of Sodom.

Great post.

But come on, you can't be shocked, you've been in this madhouse long enough

 

[sausage]

While I think you have put your point factually and eloquently, I think the reason that people are (imo rightly) annoyed here is that, of all the players listed, none are really good enough/ we are constantly using players as stop gaps year after year.

Case(s) in point:
- Rose/Davies: Lets be honest, both are average full backs. Davies can do a job, but is very limited going forward and not really what you want your ‘modern’ fullback to be. He can’t run in behind, and that is a problem as we have to continuously focus attacks down the right hand side which is predictable if nothing else. As for Rose, as good as he once was, he is injury prone and cost us many a goal when he played last season. Get rid.
- JV/JF: Both aren’t natural fullbacks, and while I did like Jan at LWB at times (Dortmund), there were other times where he got horrifically exposed playing there (Wolves). Foyth still seems very green to me, and I think somehow has more penalties in him than Aurier.
- Defensive midfielders: Winks isn’t combative enough to break play and control a midfield, Sissoko is a fantastic athlete but unfortunately a terrible footballer (always a problem), Skipp has amazing potential but you could argue isn’t yet ready for the PL, Dier wants to be played at CB and isn’t mobile enough at CM, and Wanyama was unfortunately a shadow of himself after all of those injuries. Add all of those things together, and you don’t actually have much quality in depth.
- Number 10: Gio can, from what we’ve seen at Betis, play at 10 and be a goal threat. That said, I’m sure we can all agree Bruno Fernandes was a better “like for like” replacement (although I do like and rate GLC). I’d like to see him played further forward if possible, as we need something (anything) different in the final third. Ndombele, while we can certainly use him as a stop gap at #10, wasn’t signed as one IMO. He was signed as a linking player between midfield and attack, so a #8.
- Replacement Striker: I’m sure we can all agree here, that Son and Moura aren’t natural STs. While Sonny can do a very decent job there (Lucas less so), we then lose his threat from the wing, where he’s more effective.

At the end of the day, we are all emotive after yesterday’s loss and we all want the best for Spurs. Some people express frustration differently to others, but I don’t personally think a lot of those players we’ve mentioned above (Sissoko, Dier, Lucas) would start for many other Top 6 teams. Just my 10 cents - but I do think people are entitled to be upset at the aforementioned points.

I don't disagree, but what is missing from the context is that Poch didn't seem to see any of it that way. Mourinho has, mostly now, inherited that squad.
For some reason, Mourinho seems to like Davies but had a bit more balls dealing with Rose than Poch seemed to.

I don't think Fernandes was or is better than GLC to be honest - I think it flatters to deceive on the basis that he did well in a form team and scored a lot of penalties. He's been a bit meh since the initial purple patch but we'll be able to judge a bit better going forwards this season.

I think we all know that Son and Moura aren't, like the others I listed, what we would like or agree on, but unfortunately Poch used all of them ahead of Llorente frequently. No idea why. This is the problem we have for now, though - we have a bit of a wacky squad made up of jack-of-all-trades players (that Poch liked - 'versatility') but now with a manager who prefers specialists. I can see why he thought they would work - we all did - but it's exposed just how limited some of these lads are now they don't have the hunger. I think Poch saw it eventually too, and they were the end of him.

 

[danielneeds]

Let’s blame Jose great , even if god came in this team is shit , players don’t care we need investemnt

That’s a load of bollox. Arsenal were as bad if not worse when both came in. They’ve not spent much more, but currently look to be heading in the right direction, have a clear, discernible style of play and are working hard as a team.

 

[mrlilywhite]

Jose Mourinho facing dressing room backlash after Tottenham claims

Tottenham were beaten by a single goal on the opening day of the season as visitors Everton escaped with all three points, leading Mourinho to criticise his players

www.mirror.co.uk

Thing is JM absolutely right, and if Ben Davies honestly thought they were putting in a shift then we're truly fucked. I have to be honest and backtrack a little on my Mourinho stance. He has that mentality of winning things and is trying to instill that in a Tottenham team that fell short when playing their best stuff for years under Poch. Thing is, if they couldn't do it then, then I doubt they'll do it now. The amazon doc showed us that there is far too much silence from this lot, except notable cameos from Alli, Dier, and Hugo, I struggled to see anyone willing to pull this lot through the trenches.

I will criticise Jose for his tactics, however, I was fully aware of what that would be like when he first come and was still content with him coming in. The situation at the club is a mess and it's a constant cycle that refuses to go away and we are in danger of totally unraveling all the work that put us in such a good position for the last 6 years. With that said, I honestly think we are just a few players short of making good on all the shit that has come our way since the CL final. In no particular order, I'd either look to move on or drop the following players.

• Davies - Was never the first choice left-back, he found his way there after Rose decided to force us into a Walker situation. That said, he was perhaps right that he was the best left-back at the club - though came across a little shitty imo.
• Moura - Like the guy and will give you all he has in terms of effort and sometimes plays well enough to justify his selection, though most of the time, like the rest of his career that preceded him joining us, he runs with his head down and underperforms.
• Alli - I honestly thought once upon a time that we have a worldie in our hands and we were blessed to have him - that time seems long ago now. I'm not sure where it all went wrong for him tbh, was it when he learned to calm himself down? Was it a change in the system, or was it that he just got found out eventually? I think it's a combination of all those things. Some games he plays brilliantly, though, like Moura, it's too sporadic. He does work hard for the team, but his play is too slow and that impacts us.
• Sissoko - A bag of nothing. Does nothing that seemingly contributes to the team, however, has shown an immense engine and offers some desire if nothing else, but at the end of the day, a good ball carrier earns his money when he delivers it and he doesn't often enough.
• Lamela - Clearly a gifted player once upon a time, but did he truly ever fulfill it? I see him as quite similar to Moura in that respect - big reputation but failed to really show it with us. A shame as I really like Erik, if only for how he wound up that fucktard Wilshire, Oh, and that Rabona.
• Winks - Not once have I sat down and thought "Winks is going to be something with us". He looks scared of making incisive forward passes, can't really defend or tackle, and always plays a safe ball. I was truly worried when Jose and Levy were talking about him in the doc and thought I must be missing something here?
• Aurier - I'd be hesitant to let him go right now - and like Davies would probably be best to keep as a back up (assuming Docherty comes good of course), though if there is a chance that we could move on and bring in someone like Aarons for a relatively good fee, then we should take it.

The thing is though those players all have (with the exception of Davies) the mentality that JM likes in a player, yet they don't offer enough of what the team also needs and that is the ability, consistently to change games. Alli potentially still has it and has shown, on occasions that the Dele we once loved can still produce top-quality performances. His best stuff was when he would be up there with Kane. If there is a chance that we can move him on for a biggish fee, then we would be wise to cash in now.

When I look at those 7 players, I'm alarmed at just how bad things look for us right now, but when you think that we could, though maybe won't bring in Bale and have him playing alongside Kane (plus a back up from the striker list that we are working our way through), Son, N'Dombele up top, then things look a lot better and I mean a lot better. Then you look at the possible central midfield and you have PEH and of course Lo Celso (and cover for either one - which is why we should of kept Skipp here imo). The defensive side we have an abundance in terms of central options with Toby, Sanchez, Dier, and Japhet and then just get the left side sorted and get someone in like Aarons who can fill in for Docherty if and when needed.

That would give us so much more balance - but we need it to happen and fast imho, and we have walked this path so many times and keep hitting that Levy brick wall.

 

[teok]

Let’s blame Jose great , even if god came in this team is shit , players don’t care we need investemnt

We aren't a great team but we have a few really good attacking players. We could at least score a load if you set them up properly.

 

[THFC_is_my_life]

I don't disagree, but what is missing from the context is that Poch didn't seem to see any of it that way. Mourinho has, mostly now, inherited that squad.
For some reason, Mourinho seems to like Davies but had a bit more balls dealing with Rose than Poch seemed to.

I don't think Fernandes was or is better than GLC to be honest - I think it flatters to deceive on the basis that he did well in a form team and scored a lot of penalties. He's been a bit meh since the initial purple patch but we'll be able to judge a bit better going forwards this season.

I think we all know that Son and Moura aren't, like the others I listed, what we would like or agree on, but unfortunately Poch used all of them ahead of Llorente frequently. No idea why. This is the problem we have for now, though - we have a bit of a wacky squad made up of jack-of-all-trades players (that Poch liked - 'versatility') but now with a manager who prefers specialists. I can see why he thought they would work - we all did - but it's exposed just how limited some of these lads are now they don't have the hunger. I think Poch saw it eventually too, and they were the end of him.

Agree, unfortunately Poch and Jose both appear to have their favourites - certainly the XIs both put out differ to what I believe our best players/ system to be (personally, with the players we have i think we would suit a 4-3-3).

My opinion from being at the games at the start of last season was that Poch’s blind faith in Lucas up top and Kane at number 10 cost him his job - I hope that Jose doesn’t go the same way with Lucas/ Dele when we have better options on the bench with a higher ceiling (Bergwijn/ Ndombele).

We desperately need Gio back - hoping we see more of a creative spark from him, should he have Ndombele and PEH marshalling things behind him.

I think you’ve nailed it with the final point - we have a squad of jack of all trades type players who are average across the board, whereas we need specialists in each position. Other than Son/ Kane, we have very few players who can actually hurt teams - and it’s a worry.

What really does concern me though, over and above most other things, is that the hunger, intensity and the press from the Poch years has just evaporated into thin air. JM looks like he’s hammering it on All or Nothing, but for whatever reason the players can’t execute it on the field. That’s the sort of intangibles that players have or they don’t, and the ‘heads down’ attitude we seem to adopt when teams don’t roll over for us is very disappointing.

So’ton will be the acid test - if we win that, I’m sure many on here will relax. If we don't, it’s going to be toxic. Here’s hoping yesterday served as a wake up call, and Levy can bring in some players to give the players a lift.

 

[SCUMmucs]

Ultimately, whose responsibility is it if the players aren’t motivated or aren’t conditioned ? Also, the game management / subs by Mourinho was terrible. His actually lucky that there are no fans at the moment as it would get poisonous quickly if this continues - which i can’t see why it won’t.

That wasn’t lack of conditioning, none of these teams are fit, that was a lack of hunger. It’s been nearly two years, these players only wake up when all is lost.
Maybe they’ve convinced themselves they are winner so they start off bottling. At least before they’d be in a position to botte it.
As for the subs they weren’t great but I don’t think any subs would have made a difference in that game.
One thing is for certain he’s certainly lucky there are no fans, even if there were a couple of thousand you’d feel the toxicity.

 

[mrlilywhite]

Maybe, just maybe, the players might not be up to standard? We fucked ourselves the moment we allowed squad depth players to be starters like Sissoko, Winks, Davies, Lucas too if I’m being brutally honest. Could even add Trippier to that list before he left. That coupled with a few other players plateauing and we have what we have here. An average side. Bring someone else in and after the new manager bounce wears off it’d be more of the same.

Totally agree, the squad, with the exception of Kane, Lo Celso, Son, and possibly N'dombele (jury will be out on him until we have seen if last season was just a settling in period) is pretty much bog-standard with some fancy great-sounding foreign names. This is, for the most part, the squad that got Poch the sack and unless it is totally overhauled, then we'll be in this mess regardless of who is in charge.

 

[Mr Pink]

How the hell does Ben Davies think the effort was there in the second half? At home, behind, and didn't even lay a glove on them.

Had we bothered we would of been throwing the kitchen sink at them.

Honestly, I've no idea how he thinks that was a maximum level effort.

Mourinho's face at the end was shock, pure shock.

It's one game but it was the manner of that second half that pissed me off, and clearly Mourinho.

 

[rossdapep]

Thing is JM absolutely right, and if Ben Davies honestly thought they were putting in a shift then we're truly fucked. I have to be honest and backtrack a little on my Mourinho stance. He has that mentality of winning things and is trying to instill that in a Tottenham team that fell short when playing their best stuff for years under Poch. Thing is, if they couldn't do it then, then I doubt they'll do it now. The amazon doc showed us that there is far too much silence from this lot, except notable cameos from Alli, Dier, and Hugo, I struggled to see anyone willing to pull this lot through the trenches.

I will criticise Jose for his tactics, however, I was fully aware of what that would be like when he first come and was still content with him coming in. The situation at the club is a mess and it's a constant cycle that refuses to go away and we are in danger of totally unraveling all the work that put us in such a good position for the last 6 years. With that said, I honestly think we are just a few players short of making good on all the shit that has come our way since the CL final. In no particular order, I'd either look to move on or drop the following players.

• Davies - Was never the first choice left-back, he found his way there after Rose decided to force us into a Walker situation. That said, he was perhaps right that he was the best left-back at the club - though came across a little shitty imo.
• Moura - Like the guy and will give you all he has in terms of effort and sometimes plays well enough to justify his selection, though most of the time, like the rest of his career that preceded him joining us, he runs with his head down and underperforms.
• Alli - I honestly thought once upon a time that we have a worldie in our hands and we were blessed to have him - that time seems long ago now. I'm not sure where it all went wrong for him tbh, was it when he learned to calm himself down? Was it a change in the system, or was it that he just got found out eventually? I think it's a combination of all those things. Some games he plays brilliantly, though, like Moura, it's too sporadic. He does work hard for the team, but his play is too slow and that impacts us.
• Sissoko - A bag of nothing. Does nothing that seemingly contributes to the team, however, has shown an immense engine and offers some desire if nothing else, but at the end of the day, a good ball carrier earns his money when he delivers it and he doesn't often enough.
• Lamela - Clearly a gifted player once upon a time, but did he truly ever fulfill it? I see him as quite similar to Moura in that respect - big reputation but failed to really show it with us. A shame as I really like Erik, if only for how he wound up that fucktard Wilshire, Oh, and that Rabona.
• Winks - Not once have I sat down and thought "Winks is going to be something with us". He looks scared of making incisive forward passes, can't really defend or tackle, and always plays a safe ball. I was truly worried when Jose and Levy were talking about him in the doc and thought I must be missing something here?
• Aurier - I'd be hesitant to let him go right now - and like Davies would probably be best to keep as a back up (assuming Docherty comes good of course), though if there is a chance that we could move on and bring in someone like Aarons for a relatively good fee, then we should take it.

The thing is though those players all have (with the exception of Davies) the mentality that JM likes in a player, yet they don't offer enough of what the team also needs and that is the ability, consistently to change games. Alli potentially still has it and has shown, on occasions that the Dele we once loved can still produce top-quality performances. His best stuff was when he would be up there with Kane. If there is a chance that we can move him on for a biggish fee, then we would be wise to cash in now.

When I look at those 7 players, I'm alarmed at just how bad things look for us right now, but when you think that we could, though maybe won't bring in Bale and have him playing alongside Kane (plus a back up from the striker list that we are working our way through), Son, N'Dombele up top, then things look a lot better and I mean a lot better. Then you look at the possible central midfield and you have PEH and of course Lo Celso (and cover for either one - which is why we should of kept Skipp here imo). The defensive side we have an abundance in terms of central options with Toby, Sanchez, Dier, and Japhet and then just get the left side sorted and get someone in like Aarons who can fill in for Docherty if and when needed.

That would give us so much more balance - but we need it to happen and fast imho, and we have walked this path so many times and keep hitting that Levy brick wall.

Great analysis, I think you are spot on.

When you think of those players, besides Alli none of them have put together solid or quality runs of form.

Davies can be dependable but offers nothing offensively and can be outdone by quality attacking players.

Sissoko was fantastic 18/19 in terms of driving the team but in terms of quality was dreadful. Other seasons have been poor to average.

Aurier - Capable of striking a few decent games together only to ruin it with a silly mistake. Hasn't put in one solid season in 3 seasons with us.

Winks - Started brightly and I do think he's being played out of position. However, he's not been part of a consistent midfield since he became a number 1 pick.

All of the above wpuld not be acquired by any other top 7/8 team other than maybe Alli.

That speaks volumes.

 

[sausage]

All of the above wpuld not be acquired by any other top 7/8 team other than maybe Alli.

Tbf Aurier was linked to wolves, who are a top 8 team now surely?
Winks was linked to City, but they'll buy and old shit as long as it's English and happy to not play.

 

[stormfly]

If anything I think Jose is going to finally sort us out. After watching the Amazon documentary he seems to be fully aware of the problems we have and calls players out for it. If the players get upset with him and he starts to lose players in the changing room then get rid of them as they are part of the problem.

The Poch years were fantastic and he deserves great credit for what he achieved but it also coincided with all the big clubs going through a weird transition whilst we hit peak form and we still finished behind bloody Leicester! Everytime we got to a game that really mattered, we blew it.

Our peak form has gone, most of our best players from that time have left or lost form and we are now in a transitional period ourselves. Jose needs to build the mentality from the ground up and it’s going to take time. Let’s build some winners and then the pretty football will follow I’m sure.

 

[yido16]

His fixation of pushing RB as far as possible makes us so 1 Dimensional, watching both Brighton snd Chelsea and they look so fluid moving forward, where don’t always rely on fullbacks to put crosses in, Also Brighton’s CB brought the ball out and their CM were no where near them which once reviving the ball were in the Chelsea half, when I see our 2 cm taking the ball off our centre half’s ,in our own half , massive gap to Kane, Unless JM changes this awful tactic everyone will have identical game plan and we will struggle to beat any teams,

 

[mrlilywhite]

Great analysis, I think you are spot on.

When you think of those players, besides Alli none of them have put together solid or quality runs of form.

Davies can be dependable but offers nothing offensively and can be outdone by quality attacking players.

Sissoko was fantastic 18/19 in terms of driving the team but in terms of quality was dreadful. Other seasons have been poor to average.

Aurier - Capable of striking a few decent games together only to ruin it with a silly mistake. Hasn't put in one solid season in 3 seasons with us.

Winks - Started brightly and I do think he's being played out of position. However, he's not been part of a consistent midfield since he became a number 1 pick.

All of the above wpuld not be acquired by any other top 7/8 team other than maybe Alli.

That speaks volumes.

I've always maintained that football is just like a jigsaw puzzle - when all the pieces fit, it works and is complete, but one or two missing pieces and no amount of skill can get it finished. The problem we have at Spurs is that a lot of those pieces can be found quite easily, but there seems to be some lack of will to get it done.

When you look at the overall infrastructure at Spurs now, We have the foundations in place for something to happen, but it always starts and ends on the pitch. It's not rocket science and Levy & co should really be doing all they can to get those missing pieces in place. Of course, getting someone like Bale back home would be huge for the club, and I can appreciate how tough it is to make this happen. It is obvious though that if we fail to get a team of players competing to win things, then the situation potentially gets bleak, very quickly. I'm thinking that Kane could easily say he wants out (which he has alluded to quite recently) and then you are missing 30 goals a season and easily our best player.

I honestly feel we are either going to be in a better place soon or a worse one, depending on what Levy can and can't do in this window. Signing PEH and Docherty is hardly going to inspire our talisman, and I'd go as far as to say that he might even have looked at this already and thought it's time to move on.

Jose has a bloody tough job ahead of himself, and one I don't envy - you'd maybe argue that this could even be his last big hurrah, I mean what top team in Europe would touch him if it all falls apart? It's easy to say the buck stops with the manager, but, as was the case with Poch, you can't drop all the shit at his door, when your board proceeds to fuck up time and time again and not deliver what the manager requires. Lo Celso and N'Dombele came too late for Poch in that regard. In fact, Levy was the one who signed Sissoko wasn't he? Hitchens was the one who brought in Bergwijn, though I would have thought that Jose would have been brought in on this?

I'm at the point where I can only support the manager until I can see categorically that they are the ones making the fuck ups and right now, regardless of how Jose plays, he doesn't have the players to make winners out of them and until we get to the end of the window, we can't be sure the board has his back either. I would love to have seen some of the pre-cut footage from the Amazon Doc when Poch was there if only to get an understanding of what Poch truly felt about the situation unraveling in front of his eyes.

 

[mrlilywhite]

His fixation of pushing RB as far as possible makes us so 1 Dimensional, watching both Brighton snd Chelsea and they look so fluid moving forward, where don’t always rely on fullbacks to put crosses in, Also Brighton’s CB brought the ball out and their CM were no where near them which once reviving the ball were in the Chelsea half, when I see our 2 cm taking the ball off our centre half’s ,in our own half , massive gap to Kane, Unless JM changes this awful tactic everyone will have identical game plan and we will struggle to beat any teams,

As true as that might be, Jose plays a wider system, but what options does he have? There are no traditional wide players that can deliver in the box and that is quite damning on the state of the squad when you have to ask who can deliver a ball in the box. Lucas, Son, Lamela are not even close to being able to deliver anything from wide on a consistent basis - in an ideal scenario, you'd have two marauding fb's who can deliver a cross, whilst still being able to offer support in a defensive capacity. This system is as much down to the lack of players in the squad that Jose can rely on. Davies, for example, is our only left-back and he doesn't have the capacity to be a threat down the left. I'm totally sure that JM knows this very well, given his stature in the game.

When you look at that game against Everton, what creative options did he have from midfield? Where from deep was the attacking play going to come from? Winks and PEH were ball-winners if anything else, as that was all we had. I'm fairly convinced that Jose would have known this too. It's damning that the only link-up play that was present from deep was the high line that Docherty was occupying - balanced wide play comes from having players that can provide on both flanks - we just don't have that right now. In truth, we are one dimensional because we just don't have the right players and that stems back from before JM.

 

[yido16]

He has Bergwijn and Son, instead of Moura playing inside And offering nothing surely start Bergwijn wide right, showed his crossing ability against a Newcastle when he assisted a Kane, don’t buy into he can only play 1 way, when we have the players, Jose has to adapt and he isn’t from what I saw Saturday, teams will play is off the park if he doesn’t adapt very soon, as seen we do create very little playing this way

 

[spurs-r-us]

Jose has to adapt

This sums it up pretty well for me

 

[fortworthspur]

not a JM fan but personally I think he's right about yesterday. Everton wanted it more plain and simple.

 

[Charly***]

We rarely start well & there’s new players & fitness issues, it’ll take a while to come together. Even under Poch at our best we would only really hit full form coming into Christmas. Jose’s got to apply the right tactics for each opposition, as that’s what he does, plus build a team, on the solid base we saw at the end of last season. & integrating some more of our potential like TN & new signings which seems to be what he’s doing.

That would take a while to come together. There’s been good signs, he’s changed tactics when things weren’t working.

If there’s no signs of cohesion by the turn of the year or we’re out of touch by then, that’s a more reasonable time to question him.

But I’d be surprised as he can get results with teams that aren’t playing good football so he has options. He made progress at the of last year. It wasn’t perfect but it was a step in the right direction. Certainly wouldn’t have wanted him as Spurs manager but we don’t get to chose & now he’s here I’m intrigued, it’ll be an interesting chapter whichever way it goes.

Even the man in the raincoat added something to us, a competitive edge and a trophy and compared to when he became manager, urgh, Jose joining wasn’t the same thing, the game’s changed.

 

[west indie]

He needs to play Ndombele and Lo Celso alongside Hojbjerg as soon is possible.

And also need to get Stevie B in the side, we need more guile on the field and to start dominating possession again. We dont have a squad to sit back and soak up, and should adapt and play to the strengths of the players we do have 433 press from the front and bin the lopsided system for good.