- Aug 31, 2012
- 512
- 1,130
Right now all the creative burden is on ndombele and the balance is way way way off
And again, we then return to the the same question: why then did they do the same to Poch?No, but I'm not sure they are phoning it in, or not intentionally anyway. The reality is that bad management does create worse workers even if it's not intentional right. If you don't believe in the project how can you really put all of yourself into it? I mean I'd quit, because it's a tension that requires a resolution. Players can't quit. It's a very different kind of situation.
I think we are trying to carry out jose's tactical plan, the difference is that those three managers have working tactical plans at the moment. It's not about liking it, it's if you don't believe it works how are you to work with it? Players often get the blame for tactics anyway (see Winks always passes it sideways, Lloris kicking it short criticism etc) and visa versa mind, and people make the same complaints.
The difference between what I feel is happening and those three managers is that those three managers are all masters of knowing how to build attacks. they have clear systematic approach, in Conte's whole style is actually built on pre-thought actions and movements aimed at exploiting space,I have never seen a Conte team where the ball boomerangs right back at you, I'd argue it's impossible to create that situation with Conte. Dyche is all about positioning yourself to win second balls, and to win free-kicks in important positions, we don't seem to do that. Simeone is about a very intense pressing block that suffocates opponents and then counter that with quick decisive bursts of play often involving carrying the ball out, not lumping it forward.
They do not create a system where we seem to just pile more and more pressure onto ourselves, hoping to and onto the feet of Kane or Son. This is the thing, my issue about the problem being tactics isn't about failure to fulfil tactical instructions, this might happen to a limited degree, under Poch I believe they fully tried to enact his tactical plan, it was just failing badly. I don't think they stopped working for Poch, I do believe some players probably campaigned to see him out. My problem with the tactics, is from an outside perspective they aren't working and they are a massive reason for our lack of chance creation and our late goals. We invite too much pressure onto ourselves, you don't need to be Barcelona to fix this problem.
Well I believe, and I might be wrong, the fear is in part coming from the management who creates a high-pressure situation, a lot of stress that leads to fear, and also he takes you out of the team if you make a mistake. This leads to risk-adverse mentality, better to kick it long than risk being caught out playing it short. Now this is a hypothesis and I might be wrong, but if it were true, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were, you actually create a paradoxical situation where what is best for your position in the team is the opposite of what is actually best for your team. You should be trying to play out more often, but to do so creates a bigger risk in your position in the team. This might be 'selfish' but it's literally linked their profession, they are paid, employees, not martyrs to fans whims. That a management problem, and if the management can't see that, (and I have been in companies where they don't where they expect you to put in work out of a sense that you should just want to work and that you are doing a 'good' thing), you get a lot of pissed of employees, high employee turnover and a worse product. These problems, just like in real life, are not actually hard to fix, just require a bit of listening.
And this goes onto broader points, you all want the same thing, but what if it's clear to you that what you are being asked to do directly contradicts with your desired outcome, it puts you in a very difficult situation, and absolutely you need to deal with that internally. If your supervisor is doing things that you perceive damaging you say that higher up the chain of command and try to come to a resolution. This is different than not putting the performance in, but yes you do make that known because sometimes changing manager is actually for the benefit of the club. On not putting in a performance, I think the players wanted to win this game, I don't think they threw the game, I believe they are low moral and don't believe in what they're doing, how does that not affect you? You can still do the hours, but it absolutely does have an effect, and anyone who says otherwise is either lying through their teeth, or is self-delusional quite frankly, maybe if you are doing data input it's not a problem, but if your work involves performance in any way it does have an effect.
I think if you have strong committed players with a strong mindset it would still work. You just have to be careful and controlled for 90+ minutes and not make stupid mistakes. I also doubt very much he’s telling them to play like that and not do anything with the ball in possession.Its not his philosophy. It’s that he’s simply not a good enough manager anymore
Sure is. And according to many, that’s all down to one man and his outdated footballing philosophy.Christ that’s fucking depressing to watch.
I’m an optimist by nature but I truly think once we get Kane and Reguilon back as well as one of either Dele (not his brother) or Lo Celso we’ll be back to winning form. It just depends on how far we manage to fall down the table in the meantime. So far we’re off to a flying 0-3 start.Sure is. And according to many, that’s all down to one man and his outdated footballing philosophy.
If Don Revie came back from the dead and applied his methods, I can guarantee u, no matter how old school he is, or out of touch with the modern game, he would apply his boot so far up the ass of those lazy shitheels that they’d have to start using their head to kick a ball.
No coach today, 20 years ago, or 60 years ago would purposely drill their players to flounce around like that.
Bring Rogers, or Klopp or Pep in tomorrow and you’d see the same shit from the same players... albeit after a three game new manager bounce.
But none of that matters now, as they’ve all given up. That much is clear. So, Jose will likely get sacked in the next two weeks.
Will some new manager or caretaker get us into the top 6 by end of season? Not. A. Chance.
Totally relate to this as I have got up this morning to see the result, I didn't bother watching the game as the result was obvious only the scoreline surprised me.Here in the states, the match Sunday is due to start at 7 am. Since I started following Spurs about six years ago, I have faithfully gotten up for every single early morning game even though I am typically exhausted. This Sunday, I'm sleeping in. I just don't care anymore. That's what Jose has done to Spurs for me. The match today came on when I was at work and while I did put it on my phone, I barely watched and turned it off as soon as Dier did his thing because I knew the outcome at that point. I absolutely hate these games anymore because even if they do somehow get a result, it is simply painful to watch and doesn't make you feel anything except boredom or frustration.
You usually can't win in any sport if you play scared, and that is exactly what we do. I don't know how you can blame the players for playing scared. That is what they are instructed to do. The strategy of just sit back and defend, defend, defend makes it much harder to do said defending. Our team is under pressure the entire game even against teams like Brighton. Is this really the fault of the players?
I am amazed that some people still believe Jose can somehow turn this around. I don't know what else you have to see. If Jose really did "change his ways" during his sabbatical, we would have seen it by now. This is who he is. My only hope is that I don't have to see any of it soon because he won't be here anymore. I normally hate Valentine's Day but this year I am anxiously looking forward to it.
And I hate that now the PL games are scheduled so often at 3-4am in my time zone. Those timings used to be good memories of CL weeknights but this season it has been a nightmare, giving me fatigue for the rest of the day and so unmotivated.Totally relate to this as I have got up this morning to see the result, I didn't bother watching the game as the result was obvious only the scoreline surprised me.
Unfortunately we are in a downward spiral of negativity and lack of confidence, there is only one way this is playing out.
No longer the Special One.The fact we are playing this horrific football with no fans in the ground is a damning indictment.
If there were fans this lot would have been booed off at half time weeks ago.
Mourinho has the comfort of not having to have his tactics and mentality challenged. This isn't a case of an off-day when it has been happening for a long time now. This is the football he has set up by design.
I absolutely hate seeing that and I'm fucking livid with that kind of possession play. Sissoko is the main culprit and that is why I have always been calling to cull him out of the match day squad.That being said, I'm not happy with how reliant we are on Kane and Son to create chances. I'm not happy that some players receive the ball in the middle of the park, look around for 5 seconds then pass it back to Toby or Dier then rinse and repeat. I'd like to see more attacking drive from our fullbacks and midfielders. Lamela coming on didn't change the result but he was hungry for it and it showed. It didn't lead to anything ultimately, but if the players all had that hunger from the start, the game could have panned out differently.
And again, we then return to the the same question: why then did they do the same to Poch?
We can keep going round this idea, but as yet, no one who seems to want to lay the blame at Mourinho's door has been able to come up with an adequate answer as to why it's happened to two very different managers in the space of three years.
It doesn't seem to happen elsewhere.
Chelsea change managers all the time. How come their players still seem to put in a shift?
West Ham - they may have been shit under Moyes, then Pellegrini, then Moyes again (until recently), but they didn't piss about on the pitch looking like their mothers had just been shot. They put in a shift.
Southampton got tonked 9-0 last season. What did they do? They pulled their socks up and worked and strove and put in the effort and dragged themselves back to their feet. Having been again tonked 9-0, I would, given the choice between which I thought more likely, Spurs to show gumption and get themselves back on their feet or Southampton, still put every penny I had on Southampton.
My God, Newcastle! They're managed by a man that huge swathes of people deride (not saying it's fair, just that they do) - do you see them refusing to put a shift in?
The key difference? The teams above, at the very least, have balls. Our poor little fragile egos don't 'believe' in the project? My heart bleeds! I can give them tens of thousands of reasons, every week, why their excuses should fall on the deafest of ears.
They need to pull their own socks up, not expect Poch or Mourinho or the next poor bastard who takes this poison chalice of a job to wipe their arses for them. They each need to grow a pair.
Except many players have changed. The squad is not the same as the one he inherited.OK. In that case, explain to me why they're playing in pretty much the same manner as Poch's last twelve months or so. The idea doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
There shouldn't be a need to keep repeating it, but the common denominator in the current state of play is the players. The manager's different, the coaching staff is different, the bloody training ground and stadium are different. Seriously, what else needs to change before we finally understand where the problem lies? What do we do, change the colour of the plates in the canteen, or the flavour of orange drink they serve, pay the players in Indonesian rupiahs, alter the gravitational constant of the universe? What?
Except many players have changed. The squad is not the same as the one he inherited.
What is not working is the leader is not able to motivate these players to perform at the level they’re capable of as a team. There is more human potential in this side than it is exhibiting. That was also true during Poch’s last season, even if we went on a wonderful CL run.
But this is not about individuals per se. It’s about relationships and capacities. Leaders unlock potential. Leaders get high off trying to improve their staff. Poch managed that for most of his reign. Mou hasn’t.
This doesn’t make Mou a worse coach than Poch. It means that Mou is not the right person in the right place at the right time. We need to find that person to lead our team. The person who can unlock the potential in this team.
I’ve held leadership positions at two organisations.That's funny. Cos I feel the entire mentality of just about every player we have is wrong for the club too.
No idea how is coaching is responsible for the umpteen mental mistakes we see defensively. Today was Dier's turn (again) to do something catastrophically dumb.
Oh, and I think I lost count after the 30th min of how many simple misplaced passes there were.
Let's also not forget all the players just standing around like statues. Refusing to budge. Move. Or try.
But if it makes everyone feel better to say it is all down to one person. Fine. You're right. The players have stopped making even the smallest effort.
Bring in the most attack minded genius in the land and let's see if they can turn these pathetic babies into men. 'Cos one thing I can also guarantee you is this... whoever your dream manager is will NOT be backed. They will have to deal with the exact same set of weak minded losers.
We're in deep, deep shit. And sacking Jose will not be a magical solution some seem to think it'll be. That's not to say he won't be going. 'Cos I can't see how he stays at this point, as the players have completely given up.
But by all means... let's give them a pass. It's all the manager's fault that they can't focus or put in any effort or pretend to give a shit. All because of Jose's philosophy, they can no longer make a 2 yard pass. Or mark someone. Or run into open space. Or do even the simplest of things, like not kick a fucking player in the leg while sitting on your arse in the penalty area. I'm sure that had everything to do with the Jose philosophy of playing.
Give me a break.
You'll get your wish. I don't doubt that. But what you won't get is someone who will turn us into anything resembling what we were 4 years ago. Not with these players. Not with this chairman. And not in this financial climate that will cripple us for the next three or four years.
I don’t think you really read the post you quoted.You cannot say that Mourinho has failed as a leader whilst still giving Poch credit for being better at it when the exact same players gave up and got Poch sacked. Where were his leadership qualities then? Or how did they benefit us?
It's contradictory and just goes to show you simply cannot keep making excuses for these players anymore.
We have 6-7 players excluding youth who deserve their spot and give their all in this team but we have 15 or upwards that simply aren't good enough and those of you that think this will change with a 3rd manager will be in for a rude awakening. You cannot start games with 11 players but only 2-3 show up to play.
I am not saying they have been playing to the best of their ability and just can't cut it, they really seem to not give a shit anymore and haven't for a good 3 years now.
When are we going to stop making excuses for the players?
8 of the starting line up were at spurs before Jose.Except many players have changed. The squad is not the same as the one he inherited.
What is not working is the leader is not able to motivate these players to perform at the level they’re capable of as a team. There is more human potential in this side than it is exhibiting. That was also true during Poch’s last season, even if we went on a wonderful CL run.
But this is not about individuals per se. It’s about relationships and capacities. Leaders unlock potential. Leaders get high off trying to improve their staff. Poch managed that for most of his reign. Mou hasn’t.
This doesn’t make Mou a worse coach than Poch. It means that Mou is not the right person in the right place at the right time. We need to find that person to lead our team. The person who can unlock the potential in this team.