Jose Mourinho

[fishhhandaricecake]

I will say that whilst Jose is categorically not getting the best out of this squad, any replacement would need a clear out.

Think we need a new keeper, a competent right back, at least two centre backs, probably another left back, two central midfielders, and at least two more attacking players assuming Bale and Vinny dont stay.

So whilst I think Jose is awful...like really really awful...I also agree with those that say we will need significant investment in the squad itself.

Yep ideally we do need some new players but we could and should be doing much much better with what we have currently and in this Covid times no chance we are getting a clear out unless we sell Kane so we need a manager who can get more out of what we currently have, we made 7 signings this summer which at the time virtually eve he one said was our Best transfer window they could remember and that our squad had quality cover in every position so to be sitting in 9th having regressed from last seasons shit show is not acceptable from someone on £15m a season!

 

[dondo]

Lloris is still one of the best shot stopper in the league.

About Aurier - look at fullbacks winning the league since Leicester. Trent, Robertson, Walker are much better, but players like Moses, Alonso, Zinchenko and Leicester fullbacks aren't.

How is lloris one of the best shot stoppers in the league? I said a long time ago that lloris is a keeper that makes great saves not a great keeper and I stand by that.
If we had a Pope or someone like that although we wouldn’t see many of the world class saves lloris can make we would see a better consistent performance, less errors someone who would come out and claim crosses and install more confidence in a already shaky defence

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

So how many of the following fixtures would it take to say goodbye to the old chap?

It won’t matter mate contract too expensive, Jose will be there until summer minimum. But as shit as it is he might still win us a trophy so we may as well wait it out until summer.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

I am strongly Jose out however I don’t see the sense in sacking him now unless he’s lost the dressing room. The second half suggests to me that they’re still playing for him at least.

I don’t think it makes sense because there are no managers available who are good enough to rebuild the squad. we’d be left with an inexperienced caretaker manager with no hope of doing anything in the PL and just hoping for a cup run. We may as well keep Mourinho if that is our focus now.

It was interesting that Mourinho said in his post game interview that the league is basically gone now and the EL is our best chance of CL next season. To me, it was Mourinho conceding that he knows he will lose his job if he fails to win the League cup and/or Europa League.

From a long term POV, it is probably win/win. Obviously we are hot garbage currently but at least come the summer we’ll have 1 or 2 trophies to our name and EL or CL football to look forward to or the start of a new rebuilding project.

That, or Mourinho someohow convinces Levy to give him another chance next season...God forbid.

 

[delawarespur]

I feel the league cup final being pushed back has really hurt us. We wouldn't have had to wait this long to see if Jose could succeed with the job area he was brought in to do. On the plus, I'm not sure if bale would've played a major role if it weren't pushed back. Europa knockout football is a whole new tactical ballgame than league competition. So are one-off finals. Frankly Jose has to succeed in at least one of the league cup or europa for him to be here next season. I don't want to sack off the league; I want to finish in the top 7 so we at least have europa next season. The club needs European football and income. But I would prioritize europa. For example, if bale can't start midweek and at the weekend, when we have a big europa tie, I'd start him in Europe. I feel it's the best chance of European football next season, and the fact it's CL is a massive bonus. I still believe in Jose simply because it doesn't look like the players have given up. That gives me hope, however blind people may see that hope being.

 

[EQP]

Yea read that as well but judging by today only bale took up the olive branch.

He effectively today said this shit show is beyond him and his coaching staff to fix so if that's the case then why keep him? Only defender who has improved under him is aurier everyone else has gone alarmingly backwards. If he can't get a tune out of the rest of our defenders then he shouldn't be here. Only 15 months ago he said this team and squad were great and we have added 6 players to that and we are worse than ever.

Yep. Sounds like he plans on phoning it in for the rest of the season. I bet at some point we'll see Sacramento handle one of the post match interviews.

 

[Donki]

How is lloris one of the best shot stoppers in the league? I said a long time ago that lloris is a keeper that makes great saves not a great keeper and I stand by that.
If we had a Pope or someone like that although we wouldn’t see many of the world class saves lloris can make we would see a better consistent performance, less errors someone who would come out and claim crosses and install more confidence in a already shaky defence

I’m not so sure, Lloris is still the same keeper he always has been what’s changed in the shit show of CB paring, France have some top quality keepers yet Hugo still has his place and still has his captaincy. Pope is good, he will do what needs to be done but he is nowhere near the kind of keeper that will consistently get you 3 points.

 

[double0]

That sums it perfectly for me. We need a huge rebuild which has been evident for a long time but José has done nothing to show that he's the best man for this sort of strategy. He has never done it before so why would we trust him for the inevitable next stage.

When/if Levy wakes up and smells the coffee that we need to improve the quality of the squad. Jose imo given money knows the ingredients of a trophy winning team.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

how disappointing I vented my anger at full time and then come back 5 hours later at least hoping for some ITK that its being considered and all I get is Jose telling me his methods are second to none.... well look at the talent available to both teams today Jose your methods are definitely second to at least David fucking Moyes!!!!! At least have some humility.

Yea that comment from Jose wasn’t ideal.
We had a bench with:
Hart - experienced pro solid back up
Alderwield - starts for Belgium, one of best CB’s in the league last few seasons
Doherty - one of best RWB’s last few seasons
Winks - in and out England squad
Sissoko - prem and international experience
Bale - it’s Gareth bloody bale
Dele - one of best young talents when in form
Vinicius - top scorer in Portuguese league last season

that was our BENCH and we are losing to the likes of Craig Dawson, Jesse lingerd, fornals and antonio... anyone who now says this isn’t on the manager is deluded.

 

[DelBoyN17]

Lost 5 from the last 6 PL games.

Levy needs to pull the trigger and pull it quick. Certainly before the Burnley game.

Would love him too but he’d need to pull his tongue out of Jose’s Arse first

 

[carpediem991]

It’s not guesswork, because we saw a better performance on Thursday.
I don’t have a problem with Tanganga at rb per se
(I still think he’s a better cb but after the city game, he deserved his place).
My point was about Jose subbing him at ht- for what?
And that’s the second time he’s down that. I don’t think that’s good from the manager

For me, the way to manage playing time for bale, and the result would be to start with the most dangerous attacking players.
But let’s get back to your original point that was dubious.
That Jose was faultless. I’m saying no.
bale should have started, to influence the game from the start
Tanganga should have stayed on
And I think he’s at fault for not finding a consistent pairing (or a system that reduces the risk) for a while now, which seems to be exacerbating the problem of errors, although that’s not just today.

Btw there’s a lot you’ve said I agree with. Just not that Jose was faultless

Sorry I already struggle with your point in the first sentence. How can we compare a side like Wolfsberger AC we played not even at their home with a Premier League side? Mind you, it worked even with Swinkssoko in midfield.
I explained why it made sense to take off Tanganga. We were looking for a goal and could not rely on Reguilon pacing up and down all evening, we needed fresh legs on the right to add offensive threat. Tanganga is good at defending. Probably it would have been best to move him to CB.

With every line up on earth there are different wishes and point of views, dont think there is the right one and the wrong ones. I honestly need to chuckle a bit when sofacoaches says he should have started or stayed on, end of. You could make arguments for his selections and subs today, thats all I say.

And if Mou needs to go tomorrow I am all for it because the whole picture is a mess.

 

[Atomic Blonde]

Are you expecting him to say "Yeah, I'm questioning whether what I'm telling the players to do is right. I think I'm not close to being a great manager anymore. Completely done, living off old glories, maybe I should quit"

Nobody is asking him to say that though are they? But claiming his coaching methods are 'second to none' after losing 5 games out of six, having the worst ppg record of any Spurs manager since Ramos and sitting in 9th place is arrogance , delusion and blame shifting of the highest order.

He's basically said that his coaching and management is the best in the league so it's all the players fault, how is that going to help their confidence?

When Jose was successful in the past it was because he got the players fighting for him by creating a siege mentality against the media/referees/other managers where it became 'us' (the club) against the world. As soon as he started criticising the players then things quickly turned toxic and he was sacked.

I don't think anyone is expecting him to self flagellate (although many managers shield their players and take the blame) but he needs to at least take some responsibility rather than continually throwing the players under the bus. Why not just say something like 'we win together we lose together, we all need to work harder and do better' ?

Imagine if you worked in a company/team that didn't meet it's yearly targets and your manager/team leader came out and said they personally did a great job but it was all the employees fault? Would it motivate you to work harder for that person?

Seems like Jose knows the game is up and is making the usual self serving comments in order to try and preserve his rapidly diminishing reputation.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I feel the league cup final being pushed back has really hurt us. We wouldn't have had to wait this long to see if Jose could succeed with the job area he was brought in to do. On the plus, I'm not sure if bale would've played a major role if it weren't pushed back. Europa knockout football is a whole new tactical ballgame than league competition. So are one-off finals. Frankly Jose has to succeed in at least one of the league cup or europa for him to be here next season. I don't want to sack off the league; I want to finish in the top 7 so we at least have europa next season. The club needs European football and income. But I would prioritize europa. For example, if bale can't start midweek and at the weekend, when we have a big europa tie, I'd start him in Europe. I feel it's the best chance of European football next season, and the fact it's CL is a massive bonus. I still believe in Jose simply because it doesn't look like the players have given up. That gives me hope, however blind people may see that hope being.

Completely agree although league cup being pushed back at least might increase our chances from 1 to 2% of winning as City can’t be on any better for than they are at the moment and CL will have started again so they’ll be focusing on that too.

 

[C0YS]

Would we be any more patient if we had anyone but Jose in place?

I ask this in all honesty. This thread was started with a questionaire at the top where only 50% were really happy with the appointment, a vocal group were foretelling his failure from the beginning and have been dragging this place down with every negative result.

I'm not gonna throw myself in front of a bullet for the man but when a vocal part of the fan base have been gunning for him since day 1 it pisses me off.

If he goes in the next few days I know there will be celebrations in here, people glad that we've failed. It's spectacular that we have fans like this who would rather see us fall apart just to be proven right all along about Jose.

Fuck knows if they'll be happy with whoever gets put in. Nobody save Nagelsman or Guardiola will do and even if they get 80m to re-invest in a couple of CB's it won't prove Jose right at all.

There has also been the opposite trend as well, people refusing to let Mourinho take criticism for anything. But for me what's really annoyed me about the situation is how people who don't like Mourinho, rightfully or wrongfully, have had a lot of mud thrown at them, some for somewhat betraying the club, in some way or something. Or not being real fans for reminiscing positively about Poch it's ridiculous and has overstepped the mark. At some point, it got very ugly. I have always believed in play the ball not the player, and it is really a very easy thing to do, but that hasn't happened always.

For example the abuse Windy (formally a member of this forum) got by holding a fringe, and ok extreme, opinion was really horrible over the top stuff, and I say this as someone who rarely agrees with what the guy says. All this for holding an opinion different from the norm. To quote some examples of abuse coming from members of this forum: 'tryhard twat' 'grade A penis', 'virgin', 'fucking weirdo' and more. And this is just one person, these kind of crap often follows any figure, normally outside this forum, who has a negative view on Mourinho, and to me it's been totally sickening. With most these guys not knowing the person in question and basing on their views.

Even when not abusive, you see it a lot, a sort of with us or against us mentality, a lot of questioning of allegiances for people posting things perceived 'anti-mourinho' and conflating anti Mourinho with anti tottenham. I mean I've never seen such a strong reaction to any Spurs manager in my life and it's crazy how unaccepting of alternative opinions people seem to be these days.

Now outside of football sometimes it's impossible to simply respectfully disagree, but football is inconsequential, its a completely constructed world made for entertainment or escapism, there is never any reason to not be respectful in ones disagreement, and the inability to do so, that's something that I genuinely find pretty depressing really.

 

[Beni]

That’s true, in fact many of them have got even worse under Mourinho.

But also half of them don’t play regularly anymore because we bought other players to take their place.

Problem is even with the new players we seem at best to be treading water and at worst are showing dangerous signs of going backwards from where we started with Mourinho.

Incidentally even if we got rid of all of the players that were here pre-Mourinho, criticism would soon turn to Doherty, Bergwijn, Bale or whoever. If we’re losing games and not playing well it will always be possible to lay all the blame on the players if that is the way one chooses to see it.

I think there’s some players that have improved under Mourinho, and some that aren’t and probably wouldn’t have done under any new manager.
We’re treading water based on players confidence being fragile, and that as much as an effort the players put into a game, that the fear and frustration is for all the effort, we are so lapse in defending, that teams can so easily score against us just with one attack.

I Agree, all fans will move on to the next scapegoat, when it comes to football forums

 

[VancouverSpur]

5 losses in 6 gets any manager fired unless he has a ton of credit in the bank. I think Levy will put it off as long as he can to decrease the buy-out and hope for a cup win.

Agree Levy will wait as long as he can. Jose only has credit in the bank from his previous jobs, there is little to no credit with what he has shown while Spurs manager. Both he and Levy are fortunate there are no fans in the stadium as it would be non stop grief thrown their way.

 

[king_yid]

It won’t matter mate contract too expensive, Jose will be there until summer minimum. But as shit as it is he might still win us a trophy so we may as well wait it out until summer.

So say we loose another five on the trot he still stays?

I think Levy would call it a day on Jose before that. Maybe he's waiting for tomorrow to see what the plan is to come out of lockdown and get the money machine rolling. Thing is we know that the future is bright financially so if needed funds are there, especially if the rot continues.

 

[dondo]

I am strongly Jose out however I don’t see the sense in sacking him now unless he’s lost the dressing room. The second half suggests to me that they’re still playing for him at least.

I don’t think it makes sense because there are no managers available who are good enough to rebuild the squad. we’d be left with an inexperienced caretaker manager with no hope of doing anything in the PL and just hoping for a cup run. We may as well keep Mourinho if that is our focus now.

It was interesting that Mourinho said in his post game interview that the league is basically gone now and the EL is our best chance of CL next season. To me, it was Mourinho conceding that he knows he will lose his job if he fails to win the League cup and/or Europa League.

From a long term POV, it is probably win/win. Obviously we are hot garbage currently but at least come the summer we’ll have 1 or 2 trophies to our name and EL or CL football to look forward to or the start of a new rebuilding project.

That, or Mourinho someohow convinces Levy to give him another chance next season...God forbid.

Agree with this.
The league is gone now and mourinho will have to win the EL (CL qualification) to save his job imo and I think he probably deserves the chance to do this.
Not even sure winning the league cup would save him now without CL qualification

 

[mumfordspur]

People can laugh but he has the records to prove it across multiple leagues / clubs.

But all his records are tumbling at Spurs.
Some shit about never lost back to back home games and this one is 100%
his PPG was worse than at any club after the Livershit game (and it hasnt improved since has it)
Next will be a Final then never lost in the EL then lowest placing in the PL.

Spurs have broken him.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

So say we loose another five on the trot he still stays?

I think Levy would call it a day on Jose before that. Maybe he's waiting for tomorrow to see what the plan is to come out of lockdown and get the money machine rolling. Thing is we know that the future is bright financially so if needed funds are there, especially if the rot continues.

Yea fair I mean if we lose the next 5 in a row he’d surely need to do something but as bad as we are we have Burnley Fulham etc coming up so I can’t see that happening lol, but yea if we lose to Burnley and Fulham then surely he’d have to seriously think about it. The big one would probably be if we went out the EL as that would then close off any realistic avenues back into Europe.