Just to clarify things regarding "The Keane/Defoe transfers"

[mattstev2000]

barry are you for real? Defoe no composure and a hit and hope merchant? come off it.

He showed ample composure to run from our half, round the keeper and slot in last night. Not to mention the wonderfully composed finishes against Wigan, the first two against Hull among others.

Defoe is no longer 'shift n shoot' imo, he shifts, looks, plays a pass and then receives it before slotting it.

He's certainly a hell of a lot better than he was. But he does still have a habit of making a beeline for the goal and then just hammering it. When it works, great, when it doesn't not so good.

There were a number of instances in the game yesterday where he just smacked it directly at the keeper where if he had just taken a second and engaged his brain he might have placed it better.

 

[Pleat_Out]

Ironic then that the replacement, Mr Ramos, reached the same conclusion that BMJ did, that Keane/Bulgar was clearly (by a county mile) the preferred strike force, and Jermaine Defoe again kicked up when he didn't the starts he felt he warranted (especially when 'we' cold all see that BMJ and Ramos were right, and Keane/Bulgar should be starting). Defoe may have said he didn't want to leave, but he still made it clear that he wouldn't sign a new contract, and the club risked him doing a Scab Tumble, is they didn't give him as much game time as he wanted even when it was clear that this wasn't best for the team.

Well, this was the correct call from Ramos, given the form Keane had been producing, but the damage to Defoe was firmly done long before under Jol and it didn't really help our cause overall. I don't really buy the view that Defoe has improved significantly much in recent times. Or it is funny how that improvement was almost immediate on arriving at Pompey. In my view, he simply went to play for someone who understood his strengths and got him to play to them. Unlike Jol who did not. No wonder therefore he perhaps wasn't that fussed when he got the boot.

 

[mill]

I think the statements highlight how differnt the circumstances were when both players left the club.

Personally I never wanted Keane back, I thought he was over rated and would flop at Liverpool and he did. I didn't want him back, largely because of the way he left and the effect both his and Berbatov's move had on the start of our season last year (one that could easily have seen us relegated) but mostly because I thought he wasn't worth signing.

However, what I will say is..... In the Jan 09 transfer window we were fighting for our lives, the Comolli/Ramos team can completely depleted our squad and we were staring relegation in the face.

Bent, Pav and Campbell were clearly not enough to save us so we brought in Defoe. The real problem was Defoe soon got injuried so we found ourselves needing another striker desperately.

Wheter or not Keane was the best option avalible I don't know, I assume it was the easiest what with Liverpool owing money for his transfer and their willingness to cut their losses, personally I never wanted him back but was aware of our need to replace the injuried Defoe.

Keane came in and played his part in keeping us up. This is not to be underestimated.... forgive but don't forget and all that. Yes he screwed us over in the first place, but he also played a (fairly sizable) role in saving us, games like Stoke at the Lane were key to survival at the time and he and Modric were key players.

So while personally I would happily us not see him in a Spurs shirt again, as I think we need better...if/as/when he plays for us again I will support him and want him to do well as much as any other player who represents our club.

I hope he does well for Celtic, it will either mean we can sell him on for more money or he can benefit our club in someway. If he flops there it will only result in writing sums off an asset owned by our club.

My own opinion is it's time to let the bitterness go, yea I (and most) perfer Defoe and feel Keane's time at the Lane has run its course, but I think the constant bitterness towards him should be released. I'd never boo the team or a player in our team and I think we should all be hoping he tears the scottish league a new one as failing to do so can only be determental to our club (and its the club that really matters not the componets wearing the shirts)

Agree with with this 100%

 

[StartingPrice]

Well, this was the correct call from Ramos, given the form Keane had been producing, but the damage to Defoe was firmly done long before under Jol and it didn't really help our cause overall. I don't really buy the view that Defoe has improved significantly much in recent times. Or it is funny how that improvement was almost immediate on arriving at Pompey. In my view, he simply went to play for someone who understood his strengths and got him to play to them. Unlike Jol who did not. No wonder therefore he perhaps wasn't that fussed when he got the boot.

The 'damage' done to Defoe being that his coach decided that Berbatov/Keane was a better striking pairing and that Defoe was still young and relatively inepxerienced - well, how dare they. Doesn't really justify JD skipping into the training ground laughing and smiling the day after Martin Jol was sacked IMHO.

Anyway, I don't think you are quite getting the nature of my post. It's is not demonising Defoe, or even, really, criticising him - it is more a comment on the way some folk are demonising Keane and comparing him to some kinda 'Saint Jermaine' who is the perfect footballer and has never put a foot wrong as a human being:roll:

Anger-Management - I don't think Keaen did 'flop' at Liverpool. I think he was a pawn caught in the middle of a power struggle. Benitez didn't want him and has said so publicly, so it is hardly surprising that he didn't give him a proper chance.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think you also have to ask yourself whether Defoe would have been making such loyal noises if ManU or Liverpool had been sniffing around him.

As far as Defoe being pleased that a manager that wasn't playing him had been sacked and Keane was pissed off that a manager that preferred him had been sacked, it's hardly surprising is it.

 

[StartingPrice]

I think you also have to ask yourself whether Defoe would have been making such loyal noises if ManU or Liverpool had been sniffing around him.

As far as Defoe being pleased that a manager that wasn't playing him had been sacked and Keane was pissed off that a manager that preferred him had been sacked, it's hardly surprising is it.

That's not the point I am making - though I always (ALWAYS) thought the idea of a team game was that a team was 'in it together' (or am I just a sentimental fool). The point I am making is that JD was very visibly delighted, and virtually skipping (like a little child) and laughing, in front of the cameras as well - not very advisable in my book, he could have at least tried to look concerned that the team wasn't performing well enough to keep the coach in his job. And, as I said, Ramos very quickly reached the same conclusion that Jol did, that Keane/Berbatov complimented one another far better than JD did with either of them, and I am concerne dwith this 'Saint Jermaine'/Satan Keane fantasy some of my fellow Yids have created in their own heads. JD is a very good goalscorer, but he is also far more selfish than Keane; in reagrd to other considerations neither is as bad as Berbatov, but neither is Steve Bull, either - IMHO:-|

 

[DC_Boy]

Levy takes a price for players, if he thinks it's in the club's interests and a player wants to go/is unsettled/not getting the games he wants etc

seems fair enough to me

it's when we start selling selling regular 'happy' starters for the money then I'd worry

he hasn't done it yet that i know of

the ENIC model is a different story

had we a billionaire benefactor etc etc - but we don't

 

[SpurSince57]

barry are you for real? Defoe no composure and a hit and hope merchant? come off it.

He showed ample composure to run from our half, round the keeper and slot in last night. Not to mention the wonderfully composed finishes against Wigan, the first two against Hull among others.

Defoe is no longer 'shift n shoot' imo, he shifts, looks, plays a pass and then receives it before slotting it.

Yet we still have to face up to the uncomfortable (for the JDFC, at any rate) truth that Defoe is a very good striker, but not an absolutely top-class one.

 

[StartingPrice]

Levy takes a price for players, if he thinks it's in the club's interests and a player wants to go/is unsettled/not getting the games he wants etc

seems fair enough to me

it's when we start selling selling regular 'happy' starters for the money then I'd worry

he hasn't done it yet that i know of

the ENIC model is a different story

had we a billionaire benefactor etc etc - but we don't

Michael Carrick is a partial exception. United came in for him. They were turned down. He trained fine. They came in again. He was asked how he felt about it. He said he would like to go if he was honest (that is paraphrasing how his response came across). He was sold. He never refused to play. his reaction if the bid had been turned down was never put to the test. Did Dan Levy have to tell him of the 2nd bid, or could he have just said: "clear orf I's told you's once":shrug: Was his decision to 'consult' MC motivated at all by the possibility of something like £15 million profit.

And what about ChimBOMBA. Maybe in 5 or 6 of his moves he didn't want to leave (though no doubt for several he put in transfer requests on the last days of seasons):rofl:

 

[Sanj]

You seem to have ignored the fact that Defoe was not signing his contract and was happy to leave for a free in the summer. Hence spurs telling him he could go and getting a decent transfer fee for him.
But i suppose thats anti-defoe so shouldn't be mentioned !!!

 

[StartingPrice]

You seem to have ignored the fact that Defoe was not signing his contract and was happy to leave for a free in the summer. Hence spurs telling him he could go and getting a decent transfer fee for him.
But i suppose thats anti-defoe so shouldn't be mentioned !!!

Sanj, that's exactly what I said - you don't mean me, do you?

 

[chrissivad]

You seem to have ignored the fact that Defoe was not signing his contract and was happy to leave for a free in the summer. Hence spurs telling him he could go and getting a decent transfer fee for him.
But i suppose thats anti-defoe so shouldn't be mentioned !!!

People assume Defoe was going to run his contract down to get a free transfer.

This is different than Defoe happy to do it.

Defoe just wanted to play football and felt a move away maybe his beft option imo. O'Hara has done the same, although just a loan at the moment

Keane moved away to one of his boy hood team that have been playing Champions league football and challenging for cups and honers.
How many of us would do the same if we were football players? Playing for a mid table team (lets face it, thats what we have been apart from a few seasons) with the chance to play for Tottenham Hotspur and Championsleague football? I know i would! :grin:

 

[StartingPrice]

People assume Defoe was going to run his contract down to get a free transfer.

This is different than Defoe happy to do it.

Defoe just wanted to play football and felt a move away maybe his beft option imo. O'Hara has done the same, although just a loan at the moment

Keane moved away to one of his boy hood team that have been playing Champions league football and challenging for cups and honers.
How many of us would do the same if we were football players? Playing for a mid table team (lets face it, thats what we have been apart from a few seasons) with the chance to play for Tottenham Hotspur and Championsleague football? I know i would! :grin:

To be exaact, JD refused to sign every contract offer put in front of him, whilst insisting he didn't want to leave the club. The implication is clear: play me or I'll leave on a free:-|

 

[AngerManagement]

I think you have to give Defoe the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the signing of his contract.

He would have been foolish to sign a new contract for a team that was not playing him, he had no idea how long the management team would be in charge and signing such a contract could have been a career destroyer.

It's not look he refused the move away when Spurs were prepared to sell him, other players could have sat tight waiting to be a free agent and lined his pockets with signing bonus as well has having greater freedom of movement (although I am not sure how long he had left on his contract and how feasible it would have been for his stock to remain high whilst not playing)

I do however agree that it would be a differnt kettle of fish if Defoe was being courted by the Arsenal's and Man U's of this world. His head would most likely be turned in the same way Keane's was by Liverpool.

 

[StartingPrice]

I think you have to give Defoe the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the signing of his contract.

He would have been foolish to sign a new contract for a team that was not playing him, he had no idea how long the management team would be in charge and signing such a contract could have been a career destroyer.

It's not look he refused the move away when Spurs were prepared to sell him, other players could have sat tight waiting to be a free agent and lined his pockets with signing bonus as well has having greater freedom of movement (although I am not sure how long he had left on his contract and how feasible it would have been for his stock to remain high whilst not playing)

I do however agree that it would be a differnt kettle of fish if Defoe was being courted by the Arsenal's and Man U's of this world. His head would most likely be turned in the same way Keane's was by Liverpool.

I have no problem giving JD the benefit of the doubt...just so long as the folk who do it (and advocate it) do exactly the same for Keano. My problem is the way some are demonizing Keane and rewriting JD to be the infallible saint of N17:shrug:

 

[chrissivad]

To be exaact, JD refused to sign every contract offer put in front of him, whilst insisting he didn't want to leave the club. The implication is clear: play me or I'll leave on a free:-|

He said he was happy at the club, but wanted to play football.

The implication to me is: if i'm not getting games here i will look else where to get them even if i do love being at the club.

Your adding in that he would leave on a free transfer your self as you believe it would happen. Defoe might have told Ramos/Levy that he was looking for a new club, or ask the club to find him one.

 

[StartingPrice]

He said he was happy at the club, but wanted to play football.

The implication to me is: if i'm not getting games here i will look else where to get them even if i do love being at the club.

Your adding in that he would leave on a free transfer your self as you believe it would happen. Defoe might have told Ramos/Levy that he was looking for a new club, or ask the club to find him one.

No. If you read the post directly above this one my position may be clearer to you. If those who insist on applying the most damning interpretation to Robbie Keane (whose actions, IMHO, do not deserve it) I will insist on the exact same standard being applied to JD, as I believe there has been an uncalled for witch-hunt directed against Keano (which visibly affected him), while at the same time JD has been elevated to some kinda Spurs Sainthood, by whitewash any interpretation but the most JD-freindly one out of history:shrug:

 

[chrissivad]

If those who insist on applying the most damning interpretation to Robbie Keane (whose actions, IMHO, do not deserve it) I will insist on the exact same standard being applied to JD,

Then that makes you just as bad, and childish as them. :roll:

They called me a name so i will call him one back....

 

[mattstev2000]

No. If you read the post directly above this one my position may be clearer to you. If those who insist on applying the most damning interpretation to Robbie Keane (whose actions, IMHO, do not deserve it) I will insist on the exact same standard being applied to JD, as I believe there has been an uncalled for witch-hunt directed against Keano (which visibly affected him), while at the same time JD has been elevated to some kinda Spurs Sainthood, by whitewash any interpretation but the most JD-freindly one out of history:shrug:

Totally agree. Both players left, albeit for different reasons (JD because he wasn't good enough and Keane because a 'step-up' club came calling) and yet Keane got a large percentage of shit and JD got his own, never ending chant and probably a number of invites to sleep with supporters wives.

Both should have been wished well when they left, welcomed back when they returned and supported when they played. Only players who leave in a shitty fashion like Campbell (and to a lesser extent Berbs) should receive the kind of reaction that Keane got from some of our supporters.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Totally sick of defending Defoe !

IMO....hes tottenham thru and thru........
hes a top top striker....
And im glad weve got him..

the fella is a little gem.....get off his f******g back!