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Match Threads Man City vs Spurs - Match thread - Carabao Cup Final 2021 - KO 4:30pm

Match Prediction

  • We lift our first Trophy in 13 years

    Votes: 124 38.9%
  • We lose out on another Trophy

    Votes: 170 53.3%
  • Cannot make up my mind

    Votes: 25 7.8%

  • Total voters
    319

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,553
43,067
Couple of points, we did match and beat Citeh with passion and good coaching a couple of years ago.

We do have an oligarch, the difference is that our oligarch has captive customers who he wishes to exploit and keep hanging by just being competitive.

1) Not in a final. They haven't been defeated when the stakes are that high under Pep.

2) Abramovich/Mansour don't do it for the fans either. ENIC clearly have just used us as an investment like everything else they've had, which explains why no expense was spared on the stadium but not when it comes to the team. Let's not make out like it's somehow our fault.
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,553
43,067
As always, the pre day final excitement leads to a dreadful performance where we can’t even score a goal or put up a fight ??‍♀️

Against premier league teams we just can’t hack it in finals. Chelsea, Liverpool & now City have all managed to hold us at bay with ease.

Our best hope is knocking out one of these big teams in the semis so we’re favourites in the final or trying our luck against a European side ...

This was why the Zagreb defeat hurt so much. Whoever we had would have been a far more balanced opponent than City or Liverpool, I'd even count Man Utd in that. I really worry the goons will somehow win it and save their season. They are even worse than us!

We need to get ourselves back into that next year if possible.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
1) Not in a final. They haven't been defeated when the stakes are that high under Pep.

2) Abramovich/Mansour don't do it for the fans either. ENIC clearly have just used us as an investment like everything else they've had, which explains why no expense was spared on the stadium but not when it comes to the team. Let's not make out like it's somehow our fault.
And the first one is a really good point. It's not that city looked more motivated, they just looked relaxed, like it's any other game. When looking at our player's faces they looked terrified, very nervous. That's what the experience of winning does. It's a bit like Andy Murray when he'd reach a lot of finals but just keep losing, often without a set. Yes, normally he was facing opposition better than he was but it's more than that. Federer is super relaxed in those conditions, and can just play their normal game, Murray is nervous and that dynamic is a really hard thing to get over. Ultimately, it's that first win that's the hardest, and it's not really about desire, it's about calm, just play your natural game (although part of the problem is at the moment we don't really have a natural game).

In an alternate reality, we win that League cup final in Poch's first season. I genuinely believe, if we won that, we would have won more. That teams gone now and I will always appreciate that team. It produced two of the most magical moments in my life. But it is that extra, when finals become routine, that can push you further.
 
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isaac94

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,935
9,765
Today highlighted we have never replaced Dembele, a player than can actually carry the ball, Ndombele has the potential but islazy, Dembele was all over the pitch, and was crucial in transition from defence to attack. Winks and Pierre in the middle don't have that dynaism. Guy even made Dier look good in the middle of the park, didn't know how good we had it
 

dirtyh

One Skin, two skin.....
Jun 24, 2011
8,693
25,298
At least we can all get into heaven without needing a pass. Supporting spurs for a lifetime dwarfs any chicken shit labours Hercules or whoever it was had to do.

“Come on in and take a seat, you’ve suffered enough my son”
 

Pistols At Dawn

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2019
2,169
4,612
Here are some subs that would've been better than the Bale/Sissoko double-switch:

Lamela on for Lo Celso
Ndombele on for Winks
Dele on for Lo Celso at the hour mark
Tangana on for Winks, and go to a back 3/5
Vini for Son
Bale for Son
Anyone for Winks
No one for Winks, just take him off
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
22,181
79,748
Today highlighted we have never replaced Dembele, a player than can actually carry the ball, Ndombele has the potential but islazy, Dembele was all over the pitch, and was crucial in transition from defence to attack. Winks and Pierre in the middle don't have that dynaism. Guy even made Dier look good in the middle of the park, didn't know how good we had it
Whilst I agree Dembele made everything tick, it's unrealistic to replace players. More often than not you need to change appriach.

That's what we failed to do. Evolve
 

j_walsh89

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
180
553
City this and City that, yes they battered us first half. But it’s was 0-0 somehow. We had a great chance in the second half to try and take the game to them but a tame Lo Celso shot and a Brainfart Hojberg pass aside, we really didn’t try to threaten them. I think a Leeds or Villa would have tried harder and that’s where the problem lies. We simple don’t look like team that has any attacking strategy anymore. We wouldn’t have beaten Everton or West Ham today never mind City
 

SPURSLIFE

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2011
1,579
2,133
Some are saying sell the squad and buy new players. The trouble with that is Levy is not very good at buying the right player. He goes after one and for the sake of another say 5 mil turns left and buys someone else. His reputation of a great wheeler dealer is a myth he thinks he's smart in under bidding and misses out for the sake of a few extra mil. There are so many players over the past seasons that we could and should have had but lost. Grealish and Madison are just two in recent seasons where we offered 15 and 20 would have got them and in fact did one to Villa and the other Leicester. The ideal situation would be Levy stays in the background and just looks after the marketing of the club and the manager and DOF buy the players we need. Unfortunately that is very unlikely to happen his ego wouldn't allow it.
The other thing is we wouldn't get a lot for most of the squad certainly not enough to buy 4 or 5 top players unless we sell Kane and Son then we would be selling our best to buy inferior replacements, although that is very likely to happen anyway certainly in Kane's case after today.
I know we don't have the buying power of the Arabs although we do have a very rich man in Mr Lewis who could spend a few bob if he was so inclined. Man city have a great squad but they don't pay over the odds for players they spend money but they spend it wisely, they add a player here or there to keep the squad fresh and allow for players leaving.
The next manager needs to have some balls and lay it out to Levy before he signs about his say in players and who he wants and who he sells and if he doesn't get it he leaves.
 

vuzp

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
1,447
1,311
City this and City that, yes they battered us first half. But it’s was 0-0 somehow. We had a great chance in the second half to try and take the game to them but a tame Lo Celso shot and a Brainfart Hojberg pass aside, we really didn’t try to threaten them. I think a Leeds or Villa would have tried harder and that’s where the problem lies. We simple don’t look like team that has any attacking strategy anymore. We wouldn’t have beaten Everton or West Ham today never mind City
Yes even the little counter attacks we had was terrible, with sloppy passes before we even got anywhere near City’s area.
 

vuzp

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
1,447
1,311
Some are saying sell the squad and buy new players. The trouble with that is Levy is not very good at buying the right player. He goes after one and for the sake of another say 5 mil turns left and buys someone else. His reputation of a great wheeler dealer is a myth he thinks he's smart in under bidding and misses out for the sake of a few extra mil. There are so many players over the past seasons that we could and should have had but lost. Grealish and Madison are just two in recent seasons where we offered 15 and 20 would have got them and in fact did one to Villa and the other Leicester. The ideal situation would be Levy stays in the background and just looks after the marketing of the club and the manager and DOF buy the players we need. Unfortunately that is very unlikely to happen his ego wouldn't allow it.
The other thing is we wouldn't get a lot for most of the squad certainly not enough to buy 4 or 5 top players unless we sell Kane and Son then we would be selling our best to buy inferior replacements, although that is very likely to happen anyway certainly in Kane's case after today.
I know we don't have the buying power of the Arabs although we do have a very rich man in Mr Lewis who could spend a few bob if he was so inclined. Man city have a great squad but they don't pay over the odds for players they spend money but they spend it wisely, they add a player here or there to keep the squad fresh and allow for players leaving.
The next manager needs to have some balls and lay it out to Levy before he signs about his say in players and who he wants and who he sells and if he doesn't get it he leaves.
The Grealish transfer was just terrible,
Was just want we needed, but Levy low balling over a few million and then when he wanted to pay it was too late.
 

Wizzy77

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2019
1,023
4,346
Some are saying sell the squad and buy new players. The trouble with that is Levy is not very good at buying the right player. He goes after one and for the sake of another say 5 mil turns left and buys someone else. His reputation of a great wheeler dealer is a myth he thinks he's smart in under bidding and misses out for the sake of a few extra mil. There are so many players over the past seasons that we could and should have had but lost. Grealish and Madison are just two in recent seasons where we offered 15 and 20 would have got them and in fact did one to Villa and the other Leicester. The ideal situation would be Levy stays in the background and just looks after the marketing of the club and the manager and DOF buy the players we need. Unfortunately that is very unlikely to happen his ego wouldn't allow it.
The other thing is we wouldn't get a lot for most of the squad certainly not enough to buy 4 or 5 top players unless we sell Kane and Son then we would be selling our best to buy inferior replacements, although that is very likely to happen anyway certainly in Kane's case after today.
I know we don't have the buying power of the Arabs although we do have a very rich man in Mr Lewis who could spend a few bob if he was so inclined. Man city have a great squad but they don't pay over the odds for players they spend money but they spend it wisely, they add a player here or there to keep the squad fresh and allow for players leaving.
The next manager needs to have some balls and lay it out to Levy before he signs about his say in players and who he wants and who he sells and if he doesn't get it he leaves.
Agreed. But the scary thing even a manager like Jose who came in, seems to pander to Levy instead...
 

TheRevolution

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2018
873
2,304
At least we can all get into heaven without needing a pass. Supporting spurs for a lifetime dwarfs any chicken shit labours Hercules or whoever it was had to do.

“Come on in and take a seat, you’ve suffered enough my son”

We face the Nemean Lion every Monday when we go to work.
 

dirtyh

One Skin, two skin.....
Jun 24, 2011
8,693
25,298
1) Are you in good general health?
2) How old are you?

could be fucking metheusalah, not sure it’ll make any difference. I’m 49 and have zero confidence I’ll ever see us win anything again in my lifetime unless the corrupt, bent, weighted, unfair system changes. Even poor teams can get lucky, we can’t even get that.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Also, I'll explain more of why my expectations were low:

Tottenham 0 Man City 1
Shots: 2 - 21
Shots on target 1 - 4
Possession: 37% 63%

Man city 3 Tottenham 0
Shots: 15 - 7
Shots on target 6 - 3
Possession 61% 39%

Tottenham 2 Man City 0
Shots: 4 - 22
Shots on Target 2 - 5
Possession 33% 67%

Tottenham 2 Man City 0
Shots: 3 - 19
Shots on Target 3 - 6
Possession 33% 67%

Man City 2 Tottenham 2
Shots: 30 - 3
Shots on Target 10 - 2
Possession 56% 44%

Man City 1 Tottenham 0
Shots: 15 - 10
Shots on Target: 4 - 4
Possession 61% 39%

Man city 4 Tottenham 3
Shots: 20 - 11
Shots on target: 8 - 7
Possession: 66% 34%

Tottenham 1 Man City 0
Shots: 13 - 10
Shots on target 4 - 2
Possession 41% 59%

Tottenham 0 Man City 1
Shots: 4 -13
Shots on Target 1 -6
Possession: 48% 52%

Tottenham 1 Man City 3
Shots 8 - 17
Shots on Target 3 - 6
Possession: 48% 52%

Man City 4 Tottenham 1
Shots: 20 - 7
Shots on Target 11 - 2
Possession 53% 47%


Now, looking at this game there is a pattern that emerges, there was a time were our possession was much close but, we've never had more of the ball than they have in the last four seasons, and have had more shots and shots on target once, which was the home victory in the CL. Possession tends to be 60% - 40% and our shots tend to be in single digits, there's in double, often around 20.

The final was poorer than normal, but it's also the strongest Man city side since, well the one we faced in the Champions League, and that season. Meanwhile, we are a weaker team than we have been for the last four years, maybe with the exception of last season, but last season and the start of this season City were having a bit of a wobble. Even when we win, the game tends to be very similar to the game we just watched. Because that's city, and that's how games go, the way you beat city is maximise chances and get a bit lucky. Or in the case of the CL we benefited from the pressure being all on them. This final the pressure was all on us really, and that's probably an issue, because the pressure shouldn't really have been on us.

My point is, the game structure, played out more or less as one would think, win or lose, the issue was we didn't have the clarity of play to really try and hurt them when we did pass their press.
 
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C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
At least we can all get into heaven without needing a pass. Supporting spurs for a lifetime dwarfs any chicken shit labours Hercules or whoever it was had to do.

“Come on in and take a seat, you’ve suffered enough my son”
We've suffered no more than the vast majority of football fans in fairness. Probably a bit less than most. I've never experienced a relegation, being forced to sell half our teams and having people at the club losing their jobs. I know it's a joke, but the idea that Spurs fans have it so bad is just laughable to most football fans. Part of the reason Arsenal tv is so funny is that they are going mad about what's happening on the pitch, even though they are one of the most privileged clubs to support, who have no experience of hitting bottom, this forum can be the same at points.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
I'm struggling to see how Nagelsmann can watch us this season and think we're a challenge he's willing to take on. Why spend years rebuilding a club that has to sell to buy when he can walk into Bayern and immediately challenge for titles?
The only thing that might appeal, and it would rely on him being the sort who relishes that, is the scope of the challenge. That's the only thing I can think of outside of salary, which Bayern would easily be able to match anyway.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
I'm struggling to see how Nagelsmann can watch us this season and think we're a challenge he's willing to take on. Why spend years rebuilding a club that has to sell to buy when he can walk into Bayern and immediately challenge for titles?
I don't think Nagelsmann is coming, because of Bayern. But it feels like a challenge to the fans and it is, but from a managers perspective it's quite good to go to a side where underperformance has lead to lower expectations, it removes a lot of pressure. You come in, you finish 6thish first season, and you can say it's a work in progress, so it gives you much more leeway than going to a team where everything is so perfect already that you can only fuck up, like Bayern.

So what I'm trying to say is I'm not sure managers necessarily see these issues as bad. For what it's worth almost every club will be sell to buy this summer. It would be a bit like the footballing window last summer, maybe with an even more dramatic lowering of big money deals. Everyone will be trying to sell!
 

TheBlueRooster

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2005
3,818
4,707
Agreed. But the scary thing even a manager like Jose who came in, seems to pander to Levy instead...
The Jose period was a mish mash. We don't know what was planned or what was offered when he was appointed. He came in and had to take over from Poch. He may have had a good budget to bring in new players but Covid struck. I doubt he would have joined us knowing that he was going to be restricted by funds. I never wanted him here not for his management styles but he wasn’t the face for Tottenham. The biggest problem with the last two managers is they were not strong enough to be able to stand up to the talisman and it was the same today. If you are not fit you don't play. Even poor old Mason caved in. Would Fergie play an unfit player in our last two finals to placate his ambition for a trophy? There was one point today when Son had the ball running forward and Kane was jogging 10 yards behind him. He wasn’t fit and shouldn't have started.

@Archibald&Crooks eluded to this earlier we were there to compete not to win.

I feel for the next poor soul who takes the position. It feels like 1977 all over again
 
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