Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Gilzeanking]

It doesn’t matter. Most of the same criticisms will probably levelled regardless of the outcome of the match or how we play, win lose or, draw:

“too open”; “so defensively naive”; “won’t win anything playing like that” “will be slaughtered when we come up against someone decent”; “lucky we have Vic”; “lucky we have vdV”; “not sustainable”; “I hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see it with Johnson” ; “teams have worked us out“; academy players must be wondering what they have to do to get a game”…

All this bile directed at other posters. Football forums are for people to express their opinions.

Your continual assaults on fellow posters for doing just that bring a negativity that is entirely unnecessary.

 

[Nayim60yards]

View attachment 138143

There's certainly a lot of Pooh talked in this thread...

 

[stormfly]

Ange has done a great job. The media and fans and, more importantly, the football oracle Paul Merson said we would be in a relegation battle if we lost Harry Kane.

 

[Stamford]

He's doing a great job. He managed to get some results with those injuries. We now need to see the performances and results return to how we started and we should get European football next season which for me is ahead of where I thought we would be.

We feel shit now because we lost the last game but Villa lost a couple of weeks ago and they were throwing in the towel for Champions league. We have to just try and remain positivity.

 

[Styopa]

All this bile directed at other posters. Football forums are for people to express their opinions.

Your continual assaults on fellow posters for doing just that bring a negativity that is entirely unnecessary.

I’m sorry but how is it bile? It was just an observation?

Also, my continual “assaults” on fellow posters? In what way does me remarking that the same criticisms are levelled week in, week out constitute an “assault?” They are levelled week in, week out? The evidence is all over the forum.

People are entitled to those opinions whilst others are entitled to question them. No one is saying people can’t have an opinion- unless you are saying I can’t have an opinion about those opinions?

And how is it “continual”? Can you point me in the direction of other posts where I have been “assaulting” my fellow posters?

 

[Styopa]

He's doing a great job. He managed to get some results with those injuries. We now need to see the performances and results return to how we started and we should get European football next season which for me is ahead of where I thought we would be.

We feel shit now because we lost the last game but Villa lost a couple of weeks ago and they were throwing in the towel for Champions league. We have to just try and remain positivity.

I think this has been a really disjointed season. We started really well, and then had all those injuries/suspensions. We then lost a few matches but recovered to pick up more points than we all expected. Then I think we were all expecting us to come back into form with the return of the most of the key players, but that hasn’t really happened yet.

Then we also went out of the domestic cups very early, which also robbed the season of some excitement. But to be honest, I think we were pretty unlucky to draw Man C so early on.

For me personally, I think we showed what was possible at the beginning of the season and that’s what makes me optimistic about the future. We’re not consistent enough yet and the squad needs work, but I think those early matches pointed to what we should be working towards. That’s why I feel fairly relaxed about where we are right now. I think clearly we’re a work in progress but I can see what we’re working towards and I like it.

 

[dontcallme]

I think this has been a really disjointed season. We started really well, and then had all those injuries/suspensions. We then lost a few matches but recovered to pick up more points than we all expected. Then I think we were all expecting us to come back into form with the return of the most of the key players, but that hasn’t really happened yet.

Then we also went out of the domestic cups very early, which also robbed the season of some excitement. But to be honest, I think we were pretty unlucky to draw Man C so early on.

For me personally, I think we showed what was possible at the beginning of the season and that’s what makes me optimistic about the future. We’re not consistent enough yet and the squad needs work, but I think those early matches pointed to what we should be working towards. That’s why I feel fairly relaxed about where we are right now. I think clearly we’re a work in progress but I can see what we’re working towards and I like it.

I think disjointed is probably the best description for the season.

Expectations have risen during good times and questions have arisen when performances and results have gone down. Top 4 is still a possibility but top 6 is a passable 1st season.

Ange will know we need to progress. Some will be fixed through the transfer market by buying 2 new wing backs. But Ange will need to get us defending set pieces better and being more clinical up front.

He's had a good 1st season and there is reason for optimism but the pressure is always on at this level.

 

[Styopa]

I think disjointed is probably the best description for the season.

Expectations have risen during good times and questions have arisen when performances and results have gone down. Top 4 is still a possibility but top 6 is a passable 1st season.

Ange will know we need to progress. Some will be fixed through the transfer market by buying 2 new wing backs. But Ange will need to get us defending set pieces better and being more clinical up front.

He's had a good 1st season and there is reason for optimism but the pressure is always on at this level.

Agree. And as you mention, this where expectations and perspective come in. If we are making the same mistakes or have not progressed in a year from now, then the questions will get louder and there will be a bigger case to answer.

That doesn’t necessarily mean we sack Ange if things don’t go to plan next season - look how long it’s taken Arteta to get Arsenal where they are now . But I think if the team is stagnating or getting worse from season to season, then that obviously raises concerns.

But I think, in spite of the issues this season, we have made progress- at the very least we have corrected our course. So I’m happy for now, even though there’s lots of things for us to improve on, and which I am sure we are working on.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Agree. And as you mention, this where expectations and perspective come in. If we are making the same mistakes or have not progressed in a year from now, then the questions will get louder and there will be a bigger case to answer.

That doesn’t necessarily mean we sack Ange if things don’t go to plan next season - look how long it’s taken Arteta to get Arsenal where they are now . But I think if the team is stagnating or getting worse from season to season, then that obviously raises concerns.

But I think, in spite of the issues this season, we have made progress- at the very least we have corrected our course. So I’m happy for now, even though there’s lots of things for us to improve on, and which I am sure we are working on.

Don't want to be too ageist, but younger managers than Ange get called dinosaurs and old dogs who can't learn new tricks.

He's 58 years old, 2 years older than Klopp (who looks like he's considering retirement) which makes a 5 year project a la Arteta less likely

Not impossible, just less likely.

 

[marion52]

Don't want to be too ageist, but younger managers than Ange get called dinosaurs and old dogs who can't learn new tricks.

He's 58 years old, 2 years older than Klopp (who looks like he's considering retirement) which makes a 5 year project a la Arteta less likely

Not impossible, just less likely.

true, and hasn’t he already said that he doesn’t stay anywhere for more than 3 years?
Sure its somewhere in this thread

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

When Ange was appointed the club was toxic and surrounded by a black cloud of negativity. He has done a remarkable job shifting away from the negativity to a place of positivity and optimism. I doubt anyone thought this would be possible in such a short period of time, after he was appointed

 

[Styopa]

Don't want to be too ageist, but younger managers than Ange get called dinosaurs and old dogs who can't learn new tricks.

He's 58 years old, 2 years older than Klopp (who looks like he's considering retirement) which makes a 5 year project a la Arteta less likely

Not impossible, just less likely.

That’s true, although often when managers are described as “dinosaurs” it’s also referring to their tactics and approach as being perceived as outdated.

For example, I don’t think many people describe Ancelotti as a dinosaur and he’s 64.

Also in the case of Klopp you could argue it’s pure burnout as much as, or more, than age.

Then there’s also the case of “managers having been round the block” by the time they reach their mid to late 50s, having worked in several Premier League/big league clubs.

For example, Mourinho, Moyes, Allardyce, Dyche, Silva, Emery, and Conte have all worked for 3 or more Premier League clubs.

I think Ange is a bit different in these respects. He is known for a progressive style of football, and he is in the first season of by far his biggest ever job. So whilst it is a legitimate concern, especially over the long run, I do think there are mitigating factors which count in Ange’s favour.

 

[carmeldevil]

true, and hasn’t he already said that he doesn’t stay anywhere for more than 3 years?
Sure its somewhere in this thread

Because he was moving up. What's beyond PL? I can see him staying here for the duration of his contract.

 

[Styopa]

Because he was moving up. What's beyond PL? I can see him staying here for the duration of his contract.

Yeah. In my opinion, it’s more likely we sack him, than he leaves to move onto something bigger or better.

 

[TOLBINY]

He still pines for Antonio "The Rug" Conte.

I don't pine for him - just don't think what he did with us was truly appreciated. Conte is proven at the top level when it comes to league titles, Ange is not. Yet so many fans who wanted Conte out want to give Ange time and often I see Klopp at Liverpool used as an example of why Ange should be given time. Well Conte was in charge of us for 56 Prem Games, here is his record vs Klopp's first 56 Prem games at Liverpool;

Conte GF 112 GA 64 GD +48 Pts: 105
Klopp GF 110 GA 73 GD + 32 Pts: 97

None of us know if Ange has what it takes at this level because he hasn't done it at this level before - so having doubts about that is reasonable. However, for the record, I am fully behind giving him time to prove if he has it or not, but I never had that concern with Conte, I knew he had it.

 

[Ginola+Tonic]

I don't pine for him - just don't think what he did with us was truly appreciated. Conte is proven at the top level when it comes to league titles, Ange is not. Yet so many fans who wanted Conte out want to give Ange time and often I see Klopp at Liverpool used as an example of why Ange should be given time. Well Conte was in charge of us for 56 Prem Games, here is his record vs Klopp's first 56 Prem games at Liverpool;

Conte GF 112 GA 64 GD +48 Pts: 105
Klopp GF 110 GA 73 GD + 32 Pts: 97

None of us know if Ange has what it takes at this level because he hasn't done it at this level before - so having doubts about that is reasonable. However, for the record, I am fully behind giving him time to prove if he has it or not, but I never had that concern with Conte, I knew he had it.

Are you completely ignoring the toxicity and negativity Conte bought to the club?
Chucking everyone under the bus and playing mind numbing football.

How anyone can be negative towards Ange right now is beyond me, the mood and general outlook at the club is night and day.
Ange is brilliant.

 

[soflapaul]

I don't pine for him - just don't think what he did with us was truly appreciated. Conte is proven at the top level when it comes to league titles, Ange is not. Yet so many fans who wanted Conte out want to give Ange time and often I see Klopp at Liverpool used as an example of why Ange should be given time. Well Conte was in charge of us for 56 Prem Games, here is his record vs Klopp's first 56 Prem games at Liverpool;

Conte GF 112 GA 64 GD +48 Pts: 105
Klopp GF 110 GA 73 GD + 32 Pts: 97

None of us know if Ange has what it takes at this level because he hasn't done it at this level before - so having doubts about that is reasonable. However, for the record, I am fully behind giving him time to prove if he has it or not, but I never had that concern with Conte, I knew he had it.

Yes, he overachieved with everything that was going on in one sense but the problem with Conte was in part created by him. Yes, some of the things happening in his personal life were awful and DL was unlikely to ever support him the way he needs to be supported. But we weren't going to continue to get those results given his mentality. We could all see it on the pitch. Ange may or may not have what it takes but he did correct the atmosphere in the club at a speed which most would say is impossible.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I don't pine for him - just don't think what he did with us was truly appreciated. Conte is proven at the top level when it comes to league titles, Ange is not. Yet so many fans who wanted Conte out want to give Ange time and often I see Klopp at Liverpool used as an example of why Ange should be given time. Well Conte was in charge of us for 56 Prem Games, here is his record vs Klopp's first 56 Prem games at Liverpool;

Conte GF 112 GA 64 GD +48 Pts: 105
Klopp GF 110 GA 73 GD + 32 Pts: 97

None of us know if Ange has what it takes at this level because he hasn't done it at this level before - so having doubts about that is reasonable. However, for the record, I am fully behind giving him time to prove if he has it or not, but I never had that concern with Conte, I knew he had it.

Such a weird infatuation.

I liked Conte. But, he did not want to be here. I think most people would have given him time if he had committed to being here longer.

 

[dontcallme]

Are you completely ignoring the toxicity and negativity Conte bought to the club?
Chucking everyone under the bus and playing mind numbing football.

How anyone can be negative towards Ange right now is beyond me, the mood and general outlook at the club is night and day.
Ange is brilliant.

Please don’t get him started on Conte.

 

[WaldotheCat]

I don't pine for him - just don't think what he did with us was truly appreciated. Conte is proven at the top level when it comes to league titles, Ange is not. Yet so many fans who wanted Conte out want to give Ange time and often I see Klopp at Liverpool used as an example of why Ange should be given time. Well Conte was in charge of us for 56 Prem Games, here is his record vs Klopp's first 56 Prem games at Liverpool;

Conte GF 112 GA 64 GD +48 Pts: 105
Klopp GF 110 GA 73 GD + 32 Pts: 97

None of us know if Ange has what it takes at this level because he hasn't done it at this level before - so having doubts about that is reasonable. However, for the record, I am fully behind giving him time to prove if he has it or not, but I never had that concern with Conte, I knew he had it.

Conte had it for sure, then he had had it and then he didn't want it anymore.
I really thought Conte was going to be a success with us and everything looked good for a while, but it seems he couldn't get what he wanted out of the Board or out of some of the players, peronal loss and illness took their toll and it seems as if he just lost his mojo and was looking for a way out. I am a beleiver in the 'give managers time' mantra - unless we are careering in freefall towards relegation I think managers should get at least two to three seasons to build their projects. But they should get the support of the Board to do that and the Board should know what that support is going to look like and agree to it before hiring.