Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Col_M]

Absolutely brilliant thread, well worth reading

Thank you for this. I read something over the w/e about Ange being a driver for Puskas and thought it was a wind up. That thread is a real eye opener.

 

[Wick3d]

Absolutely brilliant thread, well worth reading

Excellent read. Even my Arsenal-supporting BIL enjoyed it. He writes better than 99% of sports articles out there.

 

[npearl4spurs]

is there a way to get it off Twitter and adapt it to another format for those of us who have kept ourselves pure and undefiled?

 

[SuperSpuds]

is there a way to get it off Twitter and adapt it to another format for those of us who have kept ourselves pure and undefiled?

Hey @GNev2 - just reflecting on your comments re Postecoglou and his tactics. Particularly about him emulating Guardiola; though without looking I’m certain others will have already moved to illustrate that Ange was applying this tactic at Yokahoma back in 2019…

Pep first used the tactic when at Bayern, when he put Lahm in there. But this wasn’t the first time the tactic was used… Cruyff is credited with the original decades before Pep. Cruyff who also happens to be one of Ange’s principle sources of inspiration…

Simple open and shut case then? ‘Pie eyed child falls in love with attacking football and seeks to recreate it…’

Not quite. Being a full back yourself Gary, you’ll know about the inception of the attacking fullback : first seen in Hungary in the early 1950s…

Gustav Sebes implemented it. Ferenc Puskas and Laslo Budai were key to this system. Budai hugged the touchline as the winger and Puskas was deployed as an inside forward while Buzansky and Lantos would make the overlapping runs… who better then to pass on an attacking system?

Legendary footballer Ferenc Puskas, of course!

When Postecoglou was Captain of South Melbourne Hellas at 24 yrs old, Puskas came in speaking no English… but he could speak Greek from his time managing Panathinaikos. There was no interpreter at the time…

You guessed it: Puskas would deliver the teamtalk in Greek and Ange would translate it to English.

What’s more - Ange was half playing, half coaching, he was also his driver, for 3 years they spent countless hours together. And Puskás had a profound impact on his life and method

So back in the 80’s Ange is playing as an attacking fullback under a system he is helping Puskas implement.

Who better then to understand the plight of a fullback in such an attacking system?
"I'd get exposed all the time with three players attacking me because our wingers wouldn’t come back. We played with wingers back then. We’re talking the 80s, 4-4-2 was the game.”

“You guys know it better than me in England. That filtered down to Australia because we had a lot of British expats and everyone was playing 4-4-2.

[Puskas] goes, ‘No, no, we’re going to play with wingers’. No one had played with wingers for years, but that’s how we played.”

“Our wingers were told not to come back. I think if we had experienced players, and they were getting exposed, especially defenders, they would be saying, ‘I’m not doing this’. There would have been real resistance.”

"But because we were a young group and he was Ferenc Puskas, we went, ‘OK, let’s do this’. We were champions, we ended up winning it, but we loved it. We loved playing like that because we weren't worried about making a mistake or conceding a goal.”

“As long as we won, at the end of the day, he didn’t care about the rest of it. I just thought to myself, what a fantastic outlook to have…

because as a manager you're kind of bogged down by all these things as much as the players are of failure, of things not going right, of potentially getting the sack.”

"All these things are there to stop you actually playing the football you want your team to play. That had an effect on me of, ‘OK, that’s the kind of manager I want to be.’

That's all in theory, then you get in a job and you realise all these things but I’ve tried to resist that as much as I can with all my teams. Play football the fans want to see, play football the players want to play and provide the structure that's going to make you successful"

Quite the reply to the comments made by Keane and yourself… you’re a decent man, so I know you won’t have meant to slight another professional and decent man in Ange. But it’s difficult to watch Sky sometimes with Keane making comments about Spurs being “arrogant” for daring…

To play the football that Ange wants to play.

Then comment’s from yourself that we are simply emulating Pep.

If our attacking structure is similar to Pep’s, then it is because the source of inspiration is similar.

You’re not a lazy man, so I’m sure you’ll be less perfunctory in your comments on Spurs and Ange going forward.

At any rate, I look forward to Spurs being spoken about with a little respect again and I back Ange to earn his spurs.

Rather than Keane using our name as an insult.
@Billie_T you might appreciate this thread x

 

[soflapaul]

as i understand it, one individual who was influential and was influenced by the juggernaut that was to become Hungary (and Puskas) was our very own Arthur Rowe. so in a sense, Ange is reviving our long lost lineage.

 

[ravo]

Absolutely brilliant thread, well worth reading

Sensational. Thanks for sharing.

 

[djhotspur]

Hey @GNev2 - just reflecting on your comments re Postecoglou and his tactics. Particularly about him emulating Guardiola; though without looking I’m certain others will have already moved to illustrate that Ange was applying this tactic at Yokahoma back in 2019…

Pep first used the tactic when at Bayern, when he put Lahm in there. But this wasn’t the first time the tactic was used… Cruyff is credited with the original decades before Pep. Cruyff who also happens to be one of Ange’s principle sources of inspiration…

Simple open and shut case then? ‘Pie eyed child falls in love with attacking football and seeks to recreate it…’

Not quite. Being a full back yourself Gary, you’ll know about the inception of the attacking fullback : first seen in Hungary in the early 1950s…

Gustav Sebes implemented it. Ferenc Puskas and Laslo Budai were key to this system. Budai hugged the touchline as the winger and Puskas was deployed as an inside forward while Buzansky and Lantos would make the overlapping runs… who better then to pass on an attacking system?

Legendary footballer Ferenc Puskas, of course!

When Postecoglou was Captain of South Melbourne Hellas at 24 yrs old, Puskas came in speaking no English… but he could speak Greek from his time managing Panathinaikos. There was no interpreter at the time…

You guessed it: Puskas would deliver the teamtalk in Greek and Ange would translate it to English.

What’s more - Ange was half playing, half coaching, he was also his driver, for 3 years they spent countless hours together. And Puskás had a profound impact on his life and method

So back in the 80’s Ange is playing as an attacking fullback under a system he is helping Puskas implement.

Who better then to understand the plight of a fullback in such an attacking system?
"I'd get exposed all the time with three players attacking me because our wingers wouldn’t come back. We played with wingers back then. We’re talking the 80s, 4-4-2 was the game.”

“You guys know it better than me in England. That filtered down to Australia because we had a lot of British expats and everyone was playing 4-4-2.

[Puskas] goes, ‘No, no, we’re going to play with wingers’. No one had played with wingers for years, but that’s how we played.”

“Our wingers were told not to come back. I think if we had experienced players, and they were getting exposed, especially defenders, they would be saying, ‘I’m not doing this’. There would have been real resistance.”

"But because we were a young group and he was Ferenc Puskas, we went, ‘OK, let’s do this’. We were champions, we ended up winning it, but we loved it. We loved playing like that because we weren't worried about making a mistake or conceding a goal.”

“As long as we won, at the end of the day, he didn’t care about the rest of it. I just thought to myself, what a fantastic outlook to have…

because as a manager you're kind of bogged down by all these things as much as the players are of failure, of things not going right, of potentially getting the sack.”

"All these things are there to stop you actually playing the football you want your team to play. That had an effect on me of, ‘OK, that’s the kind of manager I want to be.’

That's all in theory, then you get in a job and you realise all these things but I’ve tried to resist that as much as I can with all my teams. Play football the fans want to see, play football the players want to play and provide the structure that's going to make you successful"

Quite the reply to the comments made by Keane and yourself… you’re a decent man, so I know you won’t have meant to slight another professional and decent man in Ange. But it’s difficult to watch Sky sometimes with Keane making comments about Spurs being “arrogant” for daring…

To play the football that Ange wants to play.

Then comment’s from yourself that we are simply emulating Pep.

If our attacking structure is similar to Pep’s, then it is because the source of inspiration is similar.

You’re not a lazy man, so I’m sure you’ll be less perfunctory in your comments on Spurs and Ange going forward.

At any rate, I look forward to Spurs being spoken about with a little respect again and I back Ange to earn his spurs.

Rather than Keane using our name as an insult.
@Billie_T you might appreciate this thread x

Thanks. Where was this energy when arteta copied it last season? Then pep decided to change to this 4 cb system which now arsenal have stolen again

 

[wrd]

What I couldn't comprehend about Neville is how quickly he suggests abandoning something as opposed to accepting that players need some time to learn new skills and adapt to what's required of them.

 

[thekneaf]

What I couldn't comprehend about Neville is how quickly he suggests abandoning something as opposed to accepting that players need some time to learn new skills and adapt to what's required of them.

I felt Neville was very much basing his opinions on what a full back should do, on his own limitations. Yes, not every meat and potatoes full back could play this role. But then Steve Bruce doesn't fit the profile of a modern CB either.

The technical ability of basically all outfield players is way ahead of where the PL was 25 years ago. Much of that is coaching and higher expectations.

Not every full back will be able to play the inverted full back role, but just like midfielders, each will bring their own abilities. Some will be able to play on the half turn. Some will have incredible vision and ability to ping a pass, some will have excellent one touch passing, or speed, or ability to get a foot in.

Neville just comes across as an old man shouting at a cloud here.

 

[Timberwolf]

I can kinda get where Neville's coming from as what he's saying is basically the 'perceived wisdom'. It's the kind of thing lots of people on SC would be saying in the Premier League thread if a new manager joined the league and we didn't know much about him and just saw their full-back getting pressed off the ball in dangerous areas.

The main thing it shows is that him and Keane haven't really done their research on Ange's history, style, philosophy or whatever you want to call it.

Asking Ange to be less attacking or be more conservative with his full-backs is like asking Bielsa to stop pressing high and man-marking.

It misses the point.

It's game 2 of a new project with a ton of new, young players. It's a work in progress. And his style is what makes him the manager he is.

 

[Tucker]

I can kinda get where Neville's coming from as what he's saying is basically the 'perceived wisdom'. It's the kind of thing lots of people on SC would be saying in the Premier League thread if a new manager joined the league and we didn't know much about him and just saw their full-back getting pressed off the ball in dangerous areas.

The main thing it shows is that him and Keane haven't really done their research on Ange's history, style, philosophy or whatever you want to call it.

Asking Ange to be less attacking or be more conservative with his full-backs is like asking Bielsa to stop pressing high and man-marking.

It misses the point.

It's game 2 of a new project with a ton of new, young players. It's a work in progress. And his style is what makes him the manager he is.

Very few of the British pundits do their homework. It’s largely a jobs for the boys system, where so long as you played for a top six club at some point in your life, you’ll get stuck on tv as a pundit. Most of them speak only in cliches and frame the football only in terms of how they played it and how the game was when they were playing.

I quite like Neville as his analysis is usually more than the skin deep cliches. But he’s a blind spot in any game where United are involved.

 

[easley91]

Very few of the British pundits do their homework. It’s largely a jobs for the boys system, where so long as you played for a top six club at some point in your life, you’ll get stuck on tv as a pundit. Most of them speak only in cliches and frame the football only in terms of how they played it and how the game was when they were playing.

I quite like Neville as his analysis is usually more than the skin deep cliches. But he’s a blind spot in any game where United are involved.

Alan Smith sounded shocked when he saw the formation, style of play and system v Brentford when we had played that way in each of our friendlies??????? None of them actually do any research anymore and it's sad.

 

[SCUMmucs]

Love the new ange song!
Poch is dead
im Loving Postecoglou instead!

 

[Timberwolf]

Very few of the British pundits do their homework. It’s largely a jobs for the boys system, where so long as you played for a top six club at some point in your life, you’ll get stuck on tv as a pundit. Most of them speak only in cliches and frame the football only in terms of how they played it and how the game was when they were playing.

I quite like Neville as his analysis is usually more than the skin deep cliches. But he’s a blind spot in any game where United are involved.

Yeah I'd expect nothing else from Keane - he's basically only there for his angry reactions - but I wonder if Neville's got a bit complacent now that he's been a main staple for about 10 years. He was a breath of fresh air when he arrived and seemed to treat punditry like he did his career, really putting in the legwork, but his analysis seems a bit more superficial these days.

 

[philll]

 

[Sid Tottenham]

View attachment 130870

This needs more love

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

What a guy

View attachment 130945

My god early 80s fashion really was shocking

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Hey @GNev2 - just reflecting on your comments re Postecoglou and his tactics. Particularly about him emulating Guardiola; though without looking I’m certain others will have already moved to illustrate that Ange was applying this tactic at Yokahoma back in 2019…

Pep first used the tactic when at Bayern, when he put Lahm in there. But this wasn’t the first time the tactic was used… Cruyff is credited with the original decades before Pep. Cruyff who also happens to be one of Ange’s principle sources of inspiration…

Simple open and shut case then? ‘Pie eyed child falls in love with attacking football and seeks to recreate it…’

Not quite. Being a full back yourself Gary, you’ll know about the inception of the attacking fullback : first seen in Hungary in the early 1950s…

Gustav Sebes implemented it. Ferenc Puskas and Laslo Budai were key to this system. Budai hugged the touchline as the winger and Puskas was deployed as an inside forward while Buzansky and Lantos would make the overlapping runs… who better then to pass on an attacking system?

Legendary footballer Ferenc Puskas, of course!

When Postecoglou was Captain of South Melbourne Hellas at 24 yrs old, Puskas came in speaking no English… but he could speak Greek from his time managing Panathinaikos. There was no interpreter at the time…

You guessed it: Puskas would deliver the teamtalk in Greek and Ange would translate it to English.

What’s more - Ange was half playing, half coaching, he was also his driver, for 3 years they spent countless hours together. And Puskás had a profound impact on his life and method

So back in the 80’s Ange is playing as an attacking fullback under a system he is helping Puskas implement.

Who better then to understand the plight of a fullback in such an attacking system?
"I'd get exposed all the time with three players attacking me because our wingers wouldn’t come back. We played with wingers back then. We’re talking the 80s, 4-4-2 was the game.”

“You guys know it better than me in England. That filtered down to Australia because we had a lot of British expats and everyone was playing 4-4-2.

[Puskas] goes, ‘No, no, we’re going to play with wingers’. No one had played with wingers for years, but that’s how we played.”

“Our wingers were told not to come back. I think if we had experienced players, and they were getting exposed, especially defenders, they would be saying, ‘I’m not doing this’. There would have been real resistance.”

"But because we were a young group and he was Ferenc Puskas, we went, ‘OK, let’s do this’. We were champions, we ended up winning it, but we loved it. We loved playing like that because we weren't worried about making a mistake or conceding a goal.”

“As long as we won, at the end of the day, he didn’t care about the rest of it. I just thought to myself, what a fantastic outlook to have…

because as a manager you're kind of bogged down by all these things as much as the players are of failure, of things not going right, of potentially getting the sack.”

"All these things are there to stop you actually playing the football you want your team to play. That had an effect on me of, ‘OK, that’s the kind of manager I want to be.’

That's all in theory, then you get in a job and you realise all these things but I’ve tried to resist that as much as I can with all my teams. Play football the fans want to see, play football the players want to play and provide the structure that's going to make you successful"

Quite the reply to the comments made by Keane and yourself… you’re a decent man, so I know you won’t have meant to slight another professional and decent man in Ange. But it’s difficult to watch Sky sometimes with Keane making comments about Spurs being “arrogant” for daring…

To play the football that Ange wants to play.

Then comment’s from yourself that we are simply emulating Pep.

If our attacking structure is similar to Pep’s, then it is because the source of inspiration is similar.

You’re not a lazy man, so I’m sure you’ll be less perfunctory in your comments on Spurs and Ange going forward.

At any rate, I look forward to Spurs being spoken about with a little respect again and I back Ange to earn his spurs.

Rather than Keane using our name as an insult.
@Billie_T you might appreciate this thread x

Fantastic!

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Obviously echoing the sentiments expressed here but perhaps what I love most is how he has it down to a fine art in telling it straight - no bullshit, no beating round the bush just straight up, no nonsense but in such a likeable manner that I dare say appeals universally, not just to us Spurs fans.

An increasing feeling we've hit the jackpot with Ange.

He's like an Australian Guadiola with the communication style of Harry Redknapp but with an Aussie accent and the lovableness of Martin Jol.

Genuinely most rounded likeable Spurs manager for years.

His pressers especially are actually nice to listen to for once.

 

[jpascavitz]

So happy our supporters have taken to him.

When I was doing deep dives over the Summer, I was all aboard the Slot train at first. When his name started to appear even as a fallback choice in some of the early links, diving into his past was really eye opening. So when Slot didn't happen, I was pumping out the Ange propaganda hahah

The only thing I hope is that, even if there are some dips, the stadium and support stays behind his long-term vision. We all know we're not the perfect squad and I bet at some point this campaign we'll face a bit of a rough patch.

I mean hell, even Conte had us challenging before the WC break last season and that feels like 4758945798 years ago at this point!!