Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Tucker]

Really? You havent seen the posts saying all momentum has been lost, or calling it a disgrace, or saying "thats anges first strike"

There has been many going off the deep end.

No, I honestly haven’t. Most people in here have criticised the line up, and said they still back him. Maybe I have some people on ignore or something.

 

[PLTuck]

No, I honestly haven’t. Most people in here have criticised the line up, and said they still back him.

I'm not referring to those posters.

 

[mpickard2087]

Is it understandable that a new manager wants to assess the whole squad and see what formulates over time? Yes.

Is it also understandable that there will be some trial and error, he has to find out who can do a job for him, and also that in reality the whole wider squad won't be a good fit to this new direction of travel and style of play? Also yes.

I'm also all for rotating, most of the time.

But I don't see how AP looked at that team last night and thought it would ever amount to much. He basically cut it's arms, legs, and head off. He took out most of the footballing ability (Bissouma, Maddison) and also a lot of the thrust and legs (Bissouma, Udogie, Sarr, Son, etc). What was left mostly was functional "do a job" support act players, that's alright if you need to drop in a few to your established team, but selecting all of them is just setting them up for a fail and I don't see what you're learning from it.

Selection I flat out disagreed with, both individually and tactically. Was it desperately urgent for Forster to get a game, instead of Vicario getting more minutes and building partnerships with his defence? Likewise Sanchez, I'm not that bothered if he's deemed to be kept as 4th choice, but he's had games all pre-season and might still be leaving it seems... did he need a game? Fair enough if it was new signing 3rd choice you wanted to blood, but it wasn't so again I'd have kept Romero in and built those new partnerships. The midfield I'll come back to, but that was just dumb. On Lo Celso though - whether you think he should be at Spurs or not - I think people misinterpret him as a player, he's not ultra creative and his game is just more someone who knits possession together and needs other footballers and a system around him who want to tiki-taka/pass and move. To play him expecting him to be the sole creative outlet is misguided.

Now to that midfield, I don't get this at all. It's not just selecting Hojbjerg and Skipp, you have to bring Emerson into the equation too. Emerson playing inverted fullback is someone who just sits in the middle of the park and barely moves. Not ideal, but to work around that you need the RCM to play very high to compensate and provide a link with the right winger. There is also the limited footballing ability between all of them.

Select:

Maddison Lo Celso
Hojbjerg (Royal)
​

Or:

Maddison Skipp
Bissouma (Porro)
​

For a better balance. Last night was way too stodgy. Especially on the right we had no presence going through midfield. Solomon didn't do much, and doesn't look as comfortable on the right, but it didn't help that he had to keep coming backwards and deep to get passes because there was zero presence and connectivity down the right side so passes went direct between him and Sanchez at centre back.

Ultimately we just didn't have any way to build a platform. And the forwards were fairly isolated. Richarlison was Richarlison, but under heavy pressure all night getting the ball, Solomon couldn't get into it, and Perisic is alright getting it around the box with the possibility to go either way, but can't be getting the ball 40/50 yards out and being expected to tear forward with it. We struggled to maintain any attacking threat.

It's ok for AP to be learning about the options available to him and test it out, and some of the wailing in the last 12 hours or so has been bananas, but that selection only ever asked for trouble and we pretty tamely managed to get bundled out of the cup. I'd be hoping that we get a better midfield selection in certain scenarios, and that he realises we need more footballers in the squad. I've said all summer we need more options on top of Maddison in those 8/10 roles, and stick by that, and there's got to be something with a bit more x-factor in the wide/forward lines also.

 

[jimbo]

guessing what we might not be privy to is the pressure hes under to use/lose squad members

100% this.......

And there's what the man himself said after the Bournemouth game:

"But that midfield area, we’re going really well at the minute. You saw the guys who started today (Bissouma, Sarr, Maddison), Skippy’s been really good, Pierre and Gio have been training well. It’s been pretty competitive in that area."

 

[Tucker]

I'm not referring to those posters.

Well I’ve honestly not seen any one going over the top on here.

 

[PLTuck]

Well I’ve honestly not seen any one going over the top on here.

And I honestly have. The 3 examples I listed were actual posts last night, among many others similarly hyperbolic. Those 3 were just the first 3 that spring to mind.

I think I'll go back to my rules for myself from last season and avoid the match threads. I thought they'd have changed with the new positive outlook and be more reasoned after losses. Clearly they haven't changed a bit.

 

[Tucker]

And I honestly have. The 3 examples I listed were actual posts last night, among many others similarly hyperbolic. Those 3 were just the first 3 that spring to mind.

I think I'll go back to my rules for myself from last season and avoid the match threads. I thought they'd have changed with the new positive outlook and be more reasoned after losses. Clearly they haven't changed a bit.

The match thread is always going to be somewhere people vent their frustrations, last night was a frustrating watch so I’m not surprised that was reflected in the posts. The only way to improve that is to bring your own positivity into it.

 

[PLTuck]

The match thread is always going to be somewhere people vent their frustrations, last night was a frustrating watch so I’m not surprised that was reflected in the posts. The only way to improve that is to bring your own positivity into it.

And be drowned in a sea of negativity? Nah fuck that

 

[jimbo]

Well I’ve honestly not seen any one going over the top on here.

I think it's one of those where there is a minority, but goodness me are they special!

Honeymoon over. Previous managers were crucified for throwing a cup. Let alone in a season without Europe.

Postecoglou is no different than Conte or Poch or whoever.

You don’t experiment when you’ve drawn a PL team away. A League 1 or 2 team at hone maybe but to do it against a good PL team away from home is criminal negligence.

He disrespected the fans, underestimated the opposition and undervalued the competition.

He already knows what the players are capable of.

Really disappointed. I thought this guy was going to be different, but it’s the same old same old.

 

[carmeldevil]

Christ on a bike, some of you lot need meds. Miserable bunch of gits.

We lost, it wasn't pretty. So fucking what....

So many opinions in here (good thing!) based on loads of out of the blue assumptions, wild deductions and twisting of Anges own words.

Can't belive that some are already using words like disgraceful.

“Christ on a bike” . You watch that one specific tiktoker too?

 

[dk-yid]

“Christ on a bike” . You watch that one specific tiktoker too?

I wish I could say I did. Sounds watchworthy....

 

[JimmyG2]

Perhaps we could put an end
to these shirt waving pre-seasons
and play several games in UK
especially with a new manager
and several players to be assessed.
Pre-season was a mess in all sorts of ways
and didn't help anyone at all.
Never combine business with pleasure.

 

[YB123]

New manger joins underperforming team, gives underperforming squad players a final chance to prove themselves which they dont take.
Provided they get moved along in the next few windows im totally fine with this.

But like someone said, do it in a league game.

The priority absolutely ahould've been the two cup comps this season, considering where we are.

The mentality and priorities of the club stink. It simply hasn't changed through about 6 managers now.

 

[delawarespur]

All about learning at this point. Ange himself has said it the most: there’s been a lot of bumps in the beginning in his previous jobs, so for it to happen here wouldn’t be anything new. What’s important is that he’s so refreshing as a coach and a person. We have to take the blows and keep moving forward. Let the man work to build his vision. Patience…

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

But like someone said, do it in a league game.

The priority absolutely ahould've been the two cup comps this season, considering where we are.

The mentality and priorities of the club stink. It simply hasn't changed through about 6 managers now.

"Prioritizing" the 2nd round of the League Cup - is such a small team mentality, that its not worth discussing.


Could Ange have rotated a little differently? Sure - but we were always going to rotate heavily for this game. As would any other team in our situation.

If this was the 4th round, or the Semi-finals - then yes - you prioritize it with your first XI - but not at this stage. The players lost the game - there was enough quality on the pitch to beat Fulham. But, a few did not rise to the occasion. Lesson learned. We move on.

 

[dude573]

But we didn’t. We had two preseason games cancelled last minute.

I also do not believe for a second that if he’d changed a lineup that won two in a row in the league everyone would accept it.

Fair point on the preseason. However, I disagree with your last point. With fitness and potential injuries I think the majority would accept one or two changes for a league game. For a cup game you'd expect maybe four or five. Nine changes is extremely questionable - especially with our lack of Europe and upcoming two week break.

Oh well. we go all out for the FA Cup I suppose.

 

[YB123]

"Prioritizing" the 2nd round of the League Cup - is such a small team mentality, that its not worth discussing.


Could Ange have rotated a little differently? Sure - but we were always going to rotate heavily for this game. As would any other team in our situation.

If this was the 4th round, or the Semi-finals - then yes - you prioritize it with your first XI - but not at this stage. The players lost the game - there was enough quality on the pitch to beat Fulham. But, a few did not rise to the occasion. Lesson learned. We move on.

The first sentence sums up what a lot of this football club has become. Sheer arrogance and financially obsessed. Many like yourself really do see the top 4 as a trophy and thats sad.

Its been 15 years now with no trophy.

Your point about rotation. I'd be much much more sympathetic if we were in Europe but we are not. We play 1 game a week, there is no excuses.

 

[PaulM]

Fair point on the preseason. However, I disagree with your last point. With fitness and potential injuries I think the majority would accept one or two changes for a league game. For a cup game you'd expect maybe four or five. Nine changes is extremely questionable - especially with our lack of Europe and upcoming two week break.

Oh well. we go all out for the FA Cup I suppose.

He probably rotated a couple more than I would have, certainly in hindsight, but Fulham themselves made 7 changes. I’d be amazed if the majority of Premier League teams didn’t do likewise.

When Woolwich went out last year to Brighton I think, didn’t they make 10 changes?

Like it or not, this competition is bottom of the list of priorities for all PL teams.

 

[PaulM]

The first sentence sums up what a lot of this football club has become. Sheer arrogance and financially obsessed. Many like yourself really do see the top 4 as a trophy and thats sad.

Its been 15 years now with no trophy.

Your point about rotation. I'd be much much more sympathetic if we were in Europe but we are not. We play 1 game a week, there is no excuses.

People make it sound like prioritising top 4 is about making money and lining ENIC’s pockets. It’s not.

Any money the club makes goes back into the club. That’s a statement of fact. Levy has always said that the path to success in his view is maximising revenue to allow us to compete in the transfer market. Getting CL football does more for that goal than winning the league cup. It’s about making the club higher profile and more competitive.

Now I get that people will say that the game is about trophies and not top 4 and that’s also a legitimate viewpoint to take even if I disagree. But it’s unfair to infer that prioritising top 4 is about money when it’s actually a means to an end that everyone associated with this club wants.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

People make it sound like prioritising top 4 is about making money and lining ENIC’s pockets. It’s not.

Any money the club makes goes back into the club. That’s a statement of fact. Levy has always said that the path to success in his view is maximising revenue to allow us to compete in the transfer market. Getting CL football does more for that goal than winning the league cup. It’s about making the club higher profile and more competitive.

Now I get that people will say that the game is about trophies and not top 4 and that’s also a legitimate viewpoint to take even if I disagree. But it’s unfair to infer that prioritising top 4 is about money when it’s actually a means to an end that everyone associated with this club wants.

Everything ENIC does is to build their asset, 23 years and people still seriously think winning trophies is anywhere near the top of ENICs priorities? If it is they are quite shit at it, you not think? Or are we just to wait another 23 years to see this grand plan come to fruition whilst seeing the same mistakes made today as 5/10 years ago? And this term 'goes back into the club' is quite vague, there is still a hotel and a large property development to come, whatever other entertainment avenues Levy can figure to exploit, all about fattening the cow until they sell and in the meantime we wait and we wait...