Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[spurs-r-us]

I'm a huge fan of Ange, and have been for years. When this thread was doom and gloom, I was big on him.

We need to back him in, completely. On the other hand, he needs to realise that in a league as competitive as this, a bit of compromise or pragmatism is not a dirty concept. We will get there if all are given time, and part of that will be Ange making some needed changes to our style while we wait for our squad to become quicker and deeper.

 

[spurs-r-us]

I really think it's gone under the radar how big of a blow the injury to Perisic was and how that ripped up Ange's pan for our forward line.

He wasn't a starter, and I can't imagine he was going to be. If Perisic's crossing off the bench is that big a loss, then switch Kulusevski and Johnson.

 

[yankspurs]

We play well. We don’t have a striker so can’t finish our chances. Not Ange’s fault that the bald fuck sold our one striker out from under him the day before the season started for £100m & now, predictably, cries poor. Richy is a bit shit & now we rely on a natural winger to be our striker & he’s been nursing an injury all season. Classic Levy. We are going nowhere as long as these fucking imbeciles run the club.

 

[GetKaned]

Or do you prefer the Conte stats of having not shots on targets in the first half?

Why is it always 2 choices...

 

[glacierSpurs]

Why is it always 2 choices...

Doesn't need to be. But in this case having no shots at all in first half definitely is not choice to be even considering IMHO.

 

[PaulM]

Doesn't need to be. But in this case having no shots at all in first half definitely is not choice to be even considering IMHO.

To be fair to Conte, and no this isn’t a yearning for his return, he got severe criticism for the pattern of going behind and then having to come back and get results. But, in a good chunk of games, we came back and got a result after a poor first half. Ange has the opposite problem over the last few weeks, great starts and virtually no results.

Ange has questions to answer the same as Conte did. Everyone seems to be focused on how wasteful we’ve been. We’ve given away 13 goals in 5 games. Take Chelsea out, given the circumstances, and it’s still more than 2 goals a game conceded.

We have had a rotten run of injuries and suspensions, particularly at CB, but that’s not really acceptable.

You often hear “Spurs wouldn’t have won that last year”. Gotta be honest, as bad as we were last season, we wouldn’t have lost that game.

 

[Spurs 1961]

So is it just that:
1) Teams have now had the chance to analyse how we play and so, as Moyes suggested, come up with plans to contain us, as they can't easily stop us?
2) The system we plays requires incredibly high fitness and stamina levels which right now we can't keep up for more than 60-70 minutes? Teams know if they hang in then tiredness will lead to mistakes? The mistakes for the goals could have just been down to our tiredness and the opposition saving their energy for late in the game. It's like we are the ideal team for a Conte style team to play against
3) Ange's methods are great in leagues with far less intensity and competition. They can clearly work in the PL but not unless you have a squad of super fit players. So we have to go out and buy more such players. Maybe at half-time we make 4-5 subs and go again with intensity? Perhaps next season our players will be at the fitness levels needed.

 

[Dakes]

Good to see Ange has also go the right fucking hump like the rest of us. The players need to step the fuck up.

Oh and levy does in the transfer market as well. Back the guy ffs.

He's spot on. The most frustrating thing for me was the lack of urgency, conviction as Ange refers to. As the clock was running down I thought about the Chelsea vs City game last month. There was urgency and determination from both teams to score goals from start to finish. It's as if we were hoping something would happen rather than furiously engineering for it to happen. I've seen it often under previous managers as well.

Change that aspect and we'll demolish teams regularly.

 

[Mjerda]

I'm kind of amazed at the negativity in here. Did we create a lot of clear cut chances? No, but we played against a very low block. Everyone struggles against a good low block, even really, really good teams. City struggled earlier this season against West Ham. In that game, first half, West Ham applied the same approach as they did against us once they gave up their pressing. City didn't create anything, and it wasn't until the game opened up City managed to win after initially going behind.

I mean, we've been on the dark side here in recent years, haven't we? Playing a low block, frustrating the opposition and winning by good counter attacking play. That's the thing, though. Yesterday our pressing and effort was so good for the majority of the game, that West Ham never really threatened us. That's impressive given how high up the pitch our entire team was. Lesser teams apply the low block because it's effective. It frustrates, and in many cases, there's the opportunity from a set piece or counter attack. I find it astonishing people expects us to create loads of chances when playing against such a tactic, especially 4 months into the reign of a new manager, with a totally new approach and some key players out injured. Pep and Klopp are still often struggling with it, and yet so many seems to think we should be above that?

Have we been found out? Are you serious? It's like we've been playing this style for years, are the finished article and the only way forward is to take a step back and rethink . Ange has been the first to say that he's very satisfied with our pressing and general approach, but are still lacking somewhat in the final third. That's probably to some extent down to the players at his disposal, but I expect this to improve. If Ange was over overawed about our attacking play, I'd be a tad worried, but he isn't, so this is still a work in progress. But please, if we're defeated by a well organized low block, even 1 year from now, it doesn't necessarily mean we're shit.

 

[bubble07]

Came in here to post the same with some evidence to back that up.

I mentioned in the match thread that Pep flew out of the traps winning all 6 games. Then we beat them 2-0.

View attachment 135090

They then went on an inconsistent run of form with some poor results thrown in.

7 wins (mostly against poor teams) - 4 draws and 5 defeats agasint any team that had something about them attack wise.

We showed the rest of the league how to beat City by putting loads of pressure on the likes of Bravo, Kolarov and making sure to stay compact.

Pep had a few problems.
- His defensive players were not very effective when building out from the back.
- Players like Navas, Zabaltea, Aguero and Toure couldn't really press effectively makign them easier to play through.
- He had too many players that lacked the dynamism he likes (inverted full-backs).
- Even Aguero was struggling with the system at first as he liked to play in behind mostly rather than move all along the frontline and rotate positions.

City were dominating possesion for the most part but struggling to really be ruthless because they were trying to walk it in at times. Players like Silva and Sterling like to get really clsoe to goal, whereas De Bruyne hadn't really found the role he has bene so good at.

That all meant they had to be really good at playing out because they weren't making dominance count.

And led to games like this



The following week they absolutely battered us BUT they didn't kill the game and we managed to snatch a draw.

As you say the follwing summer Pep corrected a lot of this.

He got;
- FBs who could play his system and one really rapid one so that hsi team stopped getting caught out by a high line.
- A GK who has superb distribution meaning they can play out from the back.
- A more effective winger in Bernardo.
- Found a role that De Bruyne excelled at.

This meant City could limit the chances of losing the ball poorly from playing out, getting caught in a high line and also attack more dynamically.

We actually started the season with a lot of components in order.
- GK capable of playing out from the back.
- CBs who can recover in a high line.
- FBs who can invert and play.
- A midfield three that can progress the ball under pressure, play with energy and create (Maddison).

I'd say we didn't really have the wingers to match.

We have lost some of these components and now it is showing up the wingers that Ange needs. We have lost the assurance of playing out from the back slightly although we nearly have it back - just not the rapid speed to recover (VdV).

The midfield has been an issue as Hojbjerg simply isn't an Ange player, we are having to patch up and it is effecting the others (Bissouma).

I also don;t think Lo Celso is a PL player in the way that he drags you through games and scores/assists with regularity. He looks great in patches but the physicality is a problem.

This has put more expectation and reliability on our attacking players. We weren't passing up as many chances when we had the stability there, and we were creating far more.

But now some parts of the foundation are a little broken, the goals are drying up. We don't have the legs or creativity to bombard teams for 90 mins and our attackers may have lost a little belief too.

Perhaps they know we are patched up a bit and that plays on their mind when taking shots or passing up shots?

But back to your original point.

Pep needed A LOT OF WORK because ultimately he needed HIS players.

It's the same for Ange.

But we have Daniel

 

[phieffect]

I think it was obvious 10 minutes in that their low block would be difficult to play against. West Ham defended very well it has to be said

But how unlucky were we for their 2 goals? That first goal was ridiculous....a double deflection ending with their player with a great chance

 

[TOLBINY]

We play well. We don’t have a striker so can’t finish our chances. Not Ange’s fault that the bald fuck sold our one striker out from under him the day before the season started for £100m & now, predictably, cries poor. Richy is a bit shit & now we rely on a natural winger to be our striker & he’s been nursing an injury all season. Classic Levy. We are going nowhere as long as these fucking imbeciles run the club.

West Ham, Villa & Wolves don't have Kane playing for them either.

 

[chas vs dave]

So is it just that:
1) Teams have now had the chance to analyse how we play and so, as Moyes suggested, come up with plans to contain us, as they can't easily stop us?
2) The system we plays requires incredibly high fitness and stamina levels which right now we can't keep up for more than 60-70 minutes? Teams know if they hang in then tiredness will lead to mistakes? The mistakes for the goals could have just been down to our tiredness and the opposition saving their energy for late in the game. It's like we are the ideal team for a Conte style team to play agains
3) Ange's methods are great in leagues with far less intensity and competition. They can clearly work in the PL but not unless you have a squad of super fit players. So we have to go out and buy more such players. Maybe at half-time we make 4-5 subs and go again with intensity? Perhaps next season our players will be at the fitness levels needed.

In terms of number 2, how can tiredness set in when we we barely raised a gallop from 35 minutes on.

We were incredibly passive from then on.

West Ham didn't figure us out. They just got 2 lucky goals and parked the bus

 

[Yid-ol]

So is it just that:
1) Teams have now had the chance to analyse how we play and so, as Moyes suggested, come up with plans to contain us, as they can't easily stop us?
2) The system we plays requires incredibly high fitness and stamina levels which right now we can't keep up for more than 60-70 minutes? Teams know if they hang in then tiredness will lead to mistakes? The mistakes for the goals could have just been down to our tiredness and the opposition saving their energy for late in the game. It's like we are the ideal team for a Conte style team to play against
3) Ange's methods are great in leagues with far less intensity and competition. They can clearly work in the PL but not unless you have a squad of super fit players. So we have to go out and buy more such players. Maybe at half-time we make 4-5 subs and go again with intensity? Perhaps next season our players will be at the fitness levels needed.

1) with Maddison in the team, we have someone who creates the space and pass through, we have no one else able to do that consistently just now.
2) maybe agree, but also think missing a few key players especially in CM is maybe causing this also. Sarr being back helps and we need Bentancur and Maddison back and then the squad depth there is better.
3) I said at the start of the season, Ange hasn't had enough time to change this squad with players he needs or how he wants to play fully IMO, this season is a write off in sense he should get until next season to create the squad he wants, as long as the football improves.

The football has vastly improved from the last few season, yes we still have some issues with creativity which we need to address with a better back up to Maddison or give youth more of a chance. Better wingers with pace and go past their man! And a proper striker. We knew at the start of the season we didn't have the squad depth at the start of the season and I doubt we will play consistently again until we get VDV and Maddison back and to an extent bentacur, and hopefully lose no one else.

 

[VoteMe4Prez]

As i was saying to a mate, we were going to pay for all those 1st half misses. Once they equalised (was going to be via luck) heads go down and we start panicking. Felt for Sonny not having his wingers supplying him and solely relying on Porro for any relevant forward play. We literally shot ourselves in the foot, again.

 

[tommyt]

My Internet went down just as Romero scored and by the time it was reset I missed 10 minutes. With coverage on Amazon I was able to rewind.

I missed commenting at half time as a result and by full time I couldn't be bothered.

Though my thoughts were that that first half were a joy to watch - almost perfection - 87% total- football and could happily watch the team play like that all night, but we lacked that 'extra' bit, the finishing.

Hugely disappointed with the result and 2nd half performance, but 100% convinced Ange Postecoglou is the man to put this right.

 

[Rosco1984]

Kulusevski has to play in the middle without Maddison. He creates so much from in there but from the wing he just cuts inside and closes all the space. He is effective on the wing with someone who can thread him in behind but when he gets it out wide and has to take on his man you just know it’s ending with him coming inside and all the momentum being taken out of the game. quick wingers either side are going to be vital to this in the long run . I would be tempted to try son left again veliz in the middle and Johnson right with kulu in the 10.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

For me missing Maddison is only one part of the issue. The big one for me is the front line. Don’t get me wrong Maddison is a big loss but his excellence has papered over a lot of the cracks, the primary one is how lacking our front line is especially our WF. This isn’t a slight on Kulu or Johnson or even Solomon. They are solid players who have potential but they just haven’t put up the goals/assist that are required for our attack to be effective. We shouldn’t be a team that relies on a superstar to get us out of jail.

Tbh this isn’t really a new issue, I’ve felt all season our wide forwards weren’t quite doing enough. This doesn’t mean to say there aren’t other issues but when everyone is fit I’d say our front line is the weakest part of the squad. Maybe in time Johnson and Deki will be of the required level but for now it’s not quite good enough imo.

Don’t think it’s a quality issue necessarily, just the balance doesn’t look right in that type of game yesterday. Shouldn’t have the wide forwards coming in and condensing the limited space even more.

 

[GetKaned]

This was one of those games where after a while you kinda know it's not gonna happen for us. We used to have many games like this under Poch too,struggling against a low block, only for the likes of Eriksen to save the day at the death. What also needs to be mentioned is our superior fitness during Poch days becoming the differentiator especially during the busy Christmas period. In the absence of Maddison and Bentancur we missed someone who can realise the plan is not working and take things to their own hands. I am a bit concerned this is going to be the pattern for some more time but trust Ange fully to figure out a solution.

 

[Bablu37]

Going into the season I accepted that we'd likely go through 2 or 3 periods of poor results, and with our best team available. The fact we're in a bad patch, with many injured and off of a storming start, already exceeded my expectations. We conceded 2 ludicrous goals. Our own finishing is a concern but then you look at our forward options and besides Son, technically playing out of position, none of those are 15 goal a season players.

Direction of travel is good for me, where we fall short is again on the squad quality and that's not on Ange.