Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Styopa]

He absolutely did great for us getting 4th but I really struggle with this idea that Conte wouldve stayed and been invested in the project if he had been backed., and that's before getting into how much money you would expect to be spent/number of new players he needed to have been given in a very short amount of time for him to be considered fully "backed".

He could easily have signed a new contract and then just walked if he wasnt backed. We're being naive to expect a squad and fan base on side, and expect the club to spend money on players behind a manager who seemed likely to be gone in a few months time.

I think in an ideal world where we give Conte something like five hundred mill to spend in the space of a window or two then maybe he gets us competing at the top - maybe.

But I think with Conte it has to be done quickly because he doesn’t tend to stay anywhere for longer than two seasons. That’s just a fact.

And realistically we’re never going to do that. If we’re going to invest in the team we’re going to do it slowly over several windows which means we need a manager who wants to spend a few seasons developing the team.

That’s why Ange makes sense and Conte (or Mourinho) never made sense. That and other reasons I mentioned above.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

The comparisons to Conte kind of misses the point - Conte and Spurs were in a difficult relationship - where neither side were willing to commit to a long-term relationship. I think if Conte had agreed to a long-term contract extension, things would have unfolded differently.

At least at this stage, there appears to be a commitment from both Ange and Spurs to make changes, and see those changes through.

 

[Freddie]

This is the bane of our play. We play lovely football to get up the pitch and then it grinds down once we are near the box. The obvious answer is to have the wide players to run to the byline instead of checking back on the inside. Also sometimes whipping an early cross. We are making too many passes in and around the box and taking too many touches that if anything just helps the other team crowd us out and have to restart build up by going back again.

This even happened playing against 9 men where instead of stretching the play and using the full width of the pitch to create attacking moves we played into Liverpool's hands until the 95th minute by playing within a small box. Width is needed desperately at least on one wing.

Said this on the match thread but I don't think the full backs being stationed so high up actually helps us a lot in this position. I'd like to hear from Ange what the plan there is because it seems to me to clog things up. I'd much rather give the winger some space and have the full backs overlap so at least someone is getting to the byline

 

[TOLBINY]

The comparisons to Conte kind of misses the point - Conte and Spurs were in a difficult relationship - where neither side were willing to commit to a long-term relationship. I think if Conte had agreed to a long-term contract extension, things would have unfolded differently.

At least at this stage, there appears to be a commitment from both Ange and Spurs to make changes, and see those changes through.

It's a fair point but if it were me with Conte's CV and having got us and kept us in 4th I would think I deserve a bit of committment from my employer.

 

[Freddie]

Everyone pretty much is bearing with it, there aren't many wobbling and we've lost 4 from 5. Had we lost 4 from 5 under Conte, the stadium would have been toxic - it wasn't last night. But there are people questioning aspects of Ange's approach which is fair enough. Some of the things we're seeing now potentially could be fundamental issues with his approach. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Time will tell. But it's fun in its own way to discuss it.

Yeah this. It's fine to ask questions and express emotions as long as we see the bigger picture. In Arteta's first season it looked like Arsenal had no plan of what to do. It was so hard to see what was changing game on game and it looked like they were going nowhere. But once the players get the manager's ideas properly and the manager himself can understand which players aren't going to help him down the line things look remarkably different. We're lucky that while we're at the learning stage it's still usually very entertaining to watch

 

[dagraham]

Yes but we wouldn’t have Maddison or VDV.
We finished 8th with Harry. We will finish higher this season.

And therein lies the problem. We’ve needed a creative signing and another quality CB for ages. Should not have depended on selling sell our record goal scorer to do so, and should not be an either or scenario……

….. oh, and after all of that we still have only one player left who we can rely on in front of goal.

It’s not good enough, no matter who the manager is.

 

[TOLBINY]

Newcastle (H) Forest (A) possible new manager bounce Everton (H) Brighton (A) Bournemouth (H)
Would you put a years salary on us winning any of those?
And if he ends that run with no win on 10, are we pressing the panic button?

 

[JSpurs1]

The scum have saka and martinelli who score and assist regularly. Until we have players of similar calibre this will continue

Bit worrying when we’ve just dropped £50m on BJ

 

[ultimateloner]

I think in an ideal world where we give Conte something like five hundred mill to spend in the space of a window or two then maybe he gets us competing at the top - maybe.

But I think with Conte it has to be done quickly because he doesn’t tend to stay anywhere for longer than two seasons. That’s just a fact.

And realistically we’re never going to do that. If we’re going to invest in the team we’re going to do it slowly over several windows which means we need a manager who wants to spend a few seasons developing the team.

That’s why Ange makes sense and Conte (or Mourinho) never made sense. That and other reasons I mentioned above.

Guys like Conte we should have never hired. The way he left was toxic. He thinks only for himself.
I have a higher opinion of Mourinho.
Regardless, this 'not spend enough' reasoning can't really be more wrong. If spending is the no.1 priority, then Spurs isn't the right club for him in the first place. I think Conte knows too.

 

[ultimateloner]

Newcastle (H) Forest (A) possible new manager bounce Everton (H) Brighton (A) Bournemouth (H)
Would you put a years salary on us winning any of those?
And if he ends that run with no win on 10, are we pressing the panic button?

Press the panic button when we are at risk of relegation.
I had predicted us to be mid-table or thereabouts this season so we are way ahead of schedule still.

 

[McFlash]

Blimey, I'm still catching up with this thread because I avoided this place yesterday but I really can't believe some of what I'm reading.

We all know we've needed a "painful rebuild" since Poch left and that it would take a while to complete.
At the start of this season, most of us were expecting a rocky start and seemed to accept that this would be a transition season, with maybe getting 6th a positive end to it.

Yeah, we're on a bit of a shit run but we're having to rely on players that we all know aren't good enough, yet we're still playing better football than we have for years.

All this, "he has no plan B" can get in the bin because as we've all known for years, our fringe players just aren't good enough for plan A, let alone anything else.
The signs are still good, progression is being made and it's going to take at least two summer windows before we can get a clear picture of things.
Ange has had one window and six months.

Let's not lose sight of where we were and of how far we've come in such a short space of time.

 

[Johnny J]

This is the bane of our play. We play lovely football to get up the pitch and then it grinds down once we are near the box. The obvious answer is to have the wide players to run to the byline instead of checking back on the inside. Also sometimes whipping an early cross. We are making too many passes in and around the box and taking too many touches that if anything just helps the other team crowd us out and have to restart build up by going back again.

This even happened playing against 9 men where instead of stretching the play and using the full width of the pitch to create attacking moves we played into Liverpool's hands until the 95th minute by playing within a small box. Width is needed desperately at least on one wing.

I agree and it's not just width, it's the lack of dynamic wide forwards who can drive at space or their opponent and cut the ball into the middle. Kulusevski is technically good but he slows the play down so much, so much, that the defence have reorganised in the mean time.

Celtic under Ange played forward and cut through the lines quickly. We need players who can do that. It's why Maddison is perfect for this system.

Kulusevski isn't, and on current evidence Johnson isn't yet either - though obv early days for him. But I'm concerned he's all pace and not a lot else, at least for now - his finishing is seriously below par, for starters. Solomon was starting to look good before his injury.

 

[JSpurs1]

Newcastle (H) Forest (A) possible new manager bounce Everton (H) Brighton (A) Bournemouth (H)
Would you put a years salary on us winning any of those?
And if he ends that run with no win on 10, are we pressing the panic button?

No he needs time and I have no expectations this year. I think we need to finish in a respectable position to ensure our better players don’t leave.

What I would say though is we’ve beaten Utd (shit), 9-man Liverpool, 5 of the bottom 7 and Fulham. It’s skewed by injuries and suspensions but anybody half tidy has taken points off us this season.

 

[cjbyid]

Newcastle (H) Forest (A) possible new manager bounce Everton (H) Brighton (A) Bournemouth (H)
Would you put a years salary on us winning any of those?
And if he ends that run with no win on 10, are we pressing the panic button?

Panic button doesn't exist this season.

Unless we end up in a relegation battle haha

 

[TOLBINY]

Then they should be out the door immediately. At some point we need to stop siding with the players over the manager.

We had that opportunity with Conte

 

[RuskyM]

It's a fair point but if it were me with Conte's CV and having got us and kept us in 4th I would think I deserve a bit of committment from my employer.

He didn’t want to be here. The commitment issue wasn’t on our end.

 

[TOLBINY]

This is what I was saying in the match thread, when referring to Conte. Nothing about tactics or style, but the players, the actual team.

These last few games it's still been the likes of Davies, Hojbjerg, Skipp... plus players that even Conte didn't rate, like Lo Celso, Gil, Richarlison. Without the genuinely much better players that we had in those first 10 games, even Bissouma, Kulusevski and Son have gone back to last season's form. And we don't have the world's best striker to cover the cracks anymore.

These are the players Conte said didn't want to play under pressure. And since Chelsea he's been pretty much proven right. Only instead of being shite in a low block, they're shite in a high line. And mostly because... they're just shite.

Just proves how well Conte did to get us 4th.

 

[Styopa]

It's a fair point but if it were me with Conte's CV and having got us and kept us in 4th I would think I deserve a bit of committment from my employer.

It wasn’t enough but we spent or committed to something like £250 mill during three windows that Conte was here and we seemed to be going backwards by the end. Conte also got the benefit of Romero who we signed a few months earlier.

Fair enough a lot of those players were players Conte maybe wasn’t keen on working with but a lot of them were integral to the great start we made under Ange: Porro, Bissouma and Sarr spring to mind.

I think Maddison and VDV are the only two real “Ange” signings we have made so far and they’re both injured unfortunately. Mostly he’s worked with the squad he inherited.

 

[midoNdefoe]

If we were a bit more ruthless at finishing the multitude of chances we are creating we would be out of sight most games. Need that cutting edge.
And some more CBs

 

[newbie]

I am so pissed off

last night i could not sleep!

But we need to remember we are playing well we just need to be ruthless in the final third!