Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Shanks]

Yea true we havnt controlled games in last few months but managed to pick up wins during that period.
I genuinely think some people have lost perspective because of how we started.
Not one of us would have predicted we would be 2 points off 4th with a cushion to 6th and only 10 points behind the leaders after 2/3 of season.
As a club and fans we were on our knees after Jose, Nuno, Conte, stellini, Levy's continued bad decisions, no football structure, sold arguably our best ever player and a stale squad.
Reckon most of us at start of season would have said if we finish between 6-10th showing progress throughout the season while trying to implement an evident progressive style of play we would have taken that.

This is what a true transitional season looks like not those shit seasons during 90's and early 2000's were we convinced ourselves they were transitional but really we were just shit.

Some people really do need to take a step back and try and see the bigger picture

100% this.

Arteta amd klopp finished out of topn4 in their forst seasons.

Fully behind this manager, always going to be blips, or perjods of form loss.

Still well wothin a shpur for top 4 too

 

[Styopa]

100% this.

Arteta amd klopp finished out of topn4 in their forst seasons.

Fully behind this manager, always going to be blips, or perjods of form loss.

Still well wothin a shpur for top 4 too

Yeah. Arsenal finished eighth in the first (half) season under Arteta. And eighth again in Arteta’s second season! In fact it took him four seasons to finish top four! Last season was the first time. Although they did win an FA cup in his first season.

 

[rabbikeane]

Any manager will have a problem at Spurs due to the fan base who ran out of patience decades ago. It will take some trophies to balance out the past.

 

[only1waddle]

100% this.

Arteta amd klopp finished out of topn4 in their forst seasons.

Fully behind this manager, always going to be blips, or perjods of form loss.

Still well wothin a shpur for top 4 too

In fairness to klopp he only finished 6 points off top 4 and was runner up in two finals without a preseason, that's a hugely impressive first season.

 

[Locotoro]

Ugh I'm not a fan of this response. I hate when they say things like "I'm focused on the now and next season is out of my hands" etc.

Come on, have some balls. Say "I'll be here long after ENIC. I dare Levy to remove my cold dead body from this office"

Problem is that he loses all leverage with the board by saying that even if it's true

 

[punkisback]

If Ange likes his fullbacks higher up the field and leaving us exposed to counter attacks, why doesn’t he play with a back 3, that way, he can have fullbacks/wingbacks higher up the field, but at least we would have more cover in defence with 3 CB’s..

Please now I have ptsd from the wingback system. It’s a pathetic way of playing and cedes possession.

 

[Styopa]

Problem is that he loses all leverage with the board by saying that even if it's true

I think coaches are also aware that they’re only ever a few months away from being sacked. There was always the constant speculation about Pochettino walking away from us to manage Man U or Madrid etc but in the end we were the ones who sacked him.

No wonder coaches don’t want to say they’ll be here for years etc.

 

[idontgetit]

There's periods in games across this season when we look absolutely electric, running rings around teams playing it out from the back. We press hard and constantly turn the ball over. We also look a little exposed because of the danger of playing out that way and midfielders taking risks to turn on the ball, but we always look like we can open a team up.

Then there's periods in games when we can't string five passes together, there's no passing triangles, everything is really stretched out and no one is supporting each other. We press but never get close and get played around.

I can't tell if the difference between those two is down to us, a failure of performance, or because of teams adapting to us. I definitely feels like the "shape" of the opposition team has an impact.

There's formations we play against that either leave us always having an extra man in the right place and others where it gives the opposition an advantage. Teams also take some time to adjust to the inverted fullbacks, they're not used to having the extra man pop up in midfield but once they expect it, it loses a lot of the effect.

In terms of form, I think it certainly hurts when we don't have the central midfielders on form. Bissouma, Maddison and Bentacur having the confidence to turn players, takes away the confidence of the opposition to press and hunt us down. Hurting them a few times by breaking their press actually enables our playstyle.

 

[Goobers]

No coach who is even half smart will not be aware that their average tenure at a club is 16 - 20 months. Bonkers. That's why if you hire a project manager, or whatever you wish to label it, then the project needs to have the patience and foresight from all at the club.

 

[sidford]

In fairness to klopp he only finished 6 points off top 4 and was runner up in two finals without a preseason, that's a hugely impressive first season.

True but they finished that season 8th so can be looking into it different ways. It's all about whether you can see progress in terms of style etc sure we saw in their first game which happened to be against us what he was doing as they pressed and harried us all game.
Fans, well most fans, will accept a lower league position once they see progress and we absolutely see that with us

 

[cliff jones]

Having had the chance to watch in the flesh last weekend and this I can’t say I actually recognize what Ange's style of football is?

Previously I saw it to be fast starts high pressing quick intelligent passing and not lettting the opposition settle.

There’s been no evidence of this at all for a couple of months with the exception of the 10 min burst after HT v Brentford.

Instead there’s been lots of slow sideways passing, too many touches no third man running and really annoyingly set piece weaknesses.

The Goons so often break the deadlock with a set piece.

I need to watch the game back but was Emerson often left as last man v Neto?

 

[whenstevewentup]

I think the difference with klopp and arteta was that they literally had to rip up the squad and completely refresh it , how many first 11 players are we going to change ?
Which players can we upgrade ?
Richarlison
Kulu , Johnson .
add a midfielder
Another full back
its not a rebuild anymore , it’s tweaking . I don’t see wholesale changes next season
Yesterday we had 3 players on the bench who could easily start games for us and we wouldn’t moan . You can’t compare our situation to Liverpool or arsenal .

 

[mil1lion]

My season ticket is in the south stand but yesterday I sat in the lower west not far from our bench and what struck me was Ange spent the entire 90 mins with his hands in his pockets and I genuinely didn’t see him say a word all game , O’Neill never stopped guiding his players , encouraging them etc , now this may have been a one off but if u watch Pep , klopp and arteta they are constantly giving out instructions , now maybe Ange's style of football is such a Plan A or nothing and players know their jobs they don’t need any guidance or encouragement but I found that quite worrying . I don’t normally watch Ange during a game so maybe yesterday was a one off but we were so poor I was amazed he wasn’t at all vocal .

It's typically the coaches who do all the shouting and Ange just shouts the odd thing. Poch was similar.

 

[Shanks]

I think the difference with klopp and arteta was that they literally had to rip up the squad and completely refresh it , how many first 11 players are we going to change ?
Which players can we upgrade ?
Richarlison
Kulu , Johnson .
add a midfielder
Another full back
its not a rebuild anymore , it’s tweaking . I don’t see wholesale changes next season
Yesterday we had 3 players on the bench who could easily start games for us and we wouldn’t moan . You can’t compare our situation to Liverpool or arsenal .

I’d say ours needed a bigger and more different rebuild personally.

we’ve won bugger all, forever, we didn’t have as much money and resources but not only did we need a rebuild on the pitch, also needed off the pitch, team, culture, fans..

 

[mil1lion]

We have a very young squad though. A lot of players still developing. It would make more sense to compare to Poch in his first season. He was changing from the slow football under AVB to this high energy press. He built a young squad and developed them. I just used Klopp and Guardiola as an example of needing time and results being up and down. Not necessarily the same situation for each of them just it takes time to implement a new style. We have young players playing a unique style of football so it's normal for performances to be up and down.

 

[Styopa]

I’d say ours needed a bigger and more different rebuild personally.

we’ve won bugger all, forever, we didn’t have as much money and resources but not only did we need a rebuild on the pitch, also needed off the pitch, team, culture, fans..

Yeah for example Arteta won the FA Cup during his first half season at Arsenal, but that was the fourth FA Cup Arsenal had won in seven years.

Compare that to us who haven’t won an FA Cup in nearly thirty five years or any trophy in sixteen years.

It was a bit different for Liverpool, but even they had won a Champions League, FA Cup and League Cup in the decade prior to Klopp joining. Imagine that - we would consider a decade like that a relative golden period!

We are in a unique position in that regard.

 

[ajspurs]

There's periods in games across this season when we look absolutely electric, running rings around teams playing it out from the back. We press hard and constantly turn the ball over. We also look a little exposed because of the danger of playing out that way and midfielders taking risks to turn on the ball, but we always look like we can open a team up.

Then there's periods in games when we can't string five passes together, there's no passing triangles, everything is really stretched out and no one is supporting each other. We press but never get close and get played around.

I can't tell if the difference between those two is down to us, a failure of performance, or because of teams adapting to us. I definitely feels like the "shape" of the opposition team has an impact.

There's formations we play against that either leave us always having an extra man in the right place and others where it gives the opposition an advantage. Teams also take some time to adjust to the inverted fullbacks, they're not used to having the extra man pop up in midfield but once they expect it, it loses a lot of the effect.

In terms of form, I think it certainly hurts when we don't have the central midfielders on form. Bissouma, Maddison and Bentacur having the confidence to turn players, takes away the confidence of the opposition to press and hunt us down. Hurting them a few times by breaking their press actually enables our playstyle.

This is exactly what I've found, especially the bolded part. I mentioned it yesterday in that everything felt so stretched. You'd see Bissouma in the middle, Sarr all the way out on the right, Maddison not easily reachable further forward in the 10, and it felt like there wasn't even the capacity for triangles with the way the players were situated. Only thing I will say is similar to what you say, and that I can't say for certainty that it hasn't always been like this (or at least to a degree) and we're just generally not coping as well for numerous other reasons.

I definitely feel like there were times in the opening 10 games when Maddison would receive the ball a bit deeper to try and orchestrate things, whilst interchanging with Bissouma and Sarr. They feel miles apart from each other at times though.

 

[idontgetit]

I definitely feel like there were times in the opening 10 games when Maddison would receive the ball a bit deeper to try and orchestrate things, whilst interchanging with Bissouma and Sarr. They feel miles apart from each other at times though.

I definitely think we play better when he gets involved a bit deeper but I'm still not sure exactly what it is.

There's all these smartarses making 'Ange's style of football" vids. About time someone did a comparison of us playing well and playing badly.

 

[ajspurs]

I definitely think we play better when he gets involved a bit deeper but I'm still not sure exactly what it is.

There's all these smartarses making 'Ange's style of football" vids. About time someone did a comparison of us playing well and playing badly.

I'm not sure either. That's one of the tough things, in that I can't quite put my finger on exactly why we're not performing as well. It may very well just be the opposition adapting.

I agree though, I feel like I need to see 2 games side by side from earlier in the season to now to see if there's anything glaringly different.

 

[only1waddle]

Yeah for example Arteta won the FA Cup during his first half season at Arsenal, but that was the fourth FA Cup Arsenal had won in seven years.

Compare that to us who haven’t won an FA Cup in nearly thirty five years or any trophy in sixteen years.

It was a bit different for Liverpool, but even they had won a Champions League, FA Cup and League Cup in the decade prior to Klopp joining. Imagine that - we would consider a decade like that a relative golden period!

We are in a unique position in that regard.

And Arteta's first full season fans couldn't see what he was doing, moaned about how shit the football was, they hated it.