Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[fishhhandaricecake]

Think this is really important context and shows how good we could be if we improve even further in the final third (which Ange keeps saying) and if we become stronger defensively:

We've scored 62 goals after 30 games in the PL so far this season. For context, the Spurs side in the Leicester season (15/16) scored 69 in 38 games. In the 16/17 season when we came 2nd we scored 86 goals in 38 PL games, with 13 of those goals coming in the final 2 games of the season.

We are well on track to score around 78 goals if we maintain our 2 goals per game average until the end of the season.

We have done this having lost Kane, one of the best goalscorers in football history. If we add more quality in the final third and continue to develop we could well score 80-90 goals plus next season.

If we become more clinical it will help us defensively too. We also need to improve massively on set pieces at both ends.

Ange is doing a great job

Love this!

 

[mil1lion]

Fair.

But, I think it's just a realization that we are not really as good as I thought we were. Probably spoiled by the start to the season.

I think early season teams would not have expected or anticipated our attacking play. Even if they knew how Ange sets up at previous teams I'm not sure they expected it to apply so early. After years of defensive play I'm sure they felt they could be open and attack while we gradually improve our attack. It's clear in this 2nd half of season more teams are setting up to stop our attacks. Even Villa at home adjusted to a back 5 and played more on the counter. That will also mean we have to adjust to them being more defensive.

This is a learning season for Ange and the players. Now teams know how we will play we have to play it so well they can't stop it. The element of surprise is gone now so it then comes down to having the quality of player to make it work more frequently. It's kind of like everyone knew Messi will come inside on his left but he was still too good to stop.

I also think fitness is going to be key next season. This is the first time in some time we have played this front foot press. It's a different physical approach to sitting back to counter. Early season we were much more intense especially at the start of games. I do feel they're really feeling that this half of the season too. I expect they'll be better conditioned after this season.

I think every manager needs that 2nd season to truly judge how things are progressing. No manager ever gets his system fully set or his own team in place in 1 year.

 

[Cochraam]

It's abundantly clear we need to somehow tighten up at the back. We are one goal off what City have scored this season but have concede 16 more. We are always going to give up chances with the way Ange wants us to play but set pieces for instance are costing us far more than they should be. 10 of the 44 goals we've given up this season have come from dead ball situations. We are 6th in the league as far as goals conceded from set pieces and those above us are the bottom 5. Eradicating just half of those probably see's us comfortably above Villa.

I think defensive set pieces are officially a problem now. Since the City game in January where they crowded Vicario (first time I recall seeing that), we've conceded 14 goals and 7 have been set pieces (5 corners). That's awful and eliminating some of those as you say would see us above Villa in the table. Major area of work, IMO.

I actually feel kind of ok with our other defending or at least I'm ok with the tradeoff we're making. We're giving up some defensive solidity against the counter to have a ton of possession around the opponent's box. I think our bigger issue is we're not quite fully clicking in the final third so we're not turning that possession and position into goals as much as I think we can and will in the future (even as we're scoring a lot). Right now teams are too comfortable to concede the ball to us, sit in a tight, organized structure, and wait for their moments to pounce. I think once our final third play clicks a little more, it will end up helping our defense as a knock-on effect because teams will fear us more and have to work even harder to prevent us scoring meaning they have less structure and energy to attack us.

 

[Albertbarich]

I didn't see the game last night as I was working and to be quite honest it's a nice break.

We sold our greatest ever player just before the season started and I think every single fan wrote the season off. Well with 9 games left we're fifth , in with a great shout if top four and have played some great football and found some real superstars in players like Vicario, Udogie and Sarr.

And yet I still see plenty of negativity over socials. Not for me, we're doing well and probably ahead of schedule.

 

[rabbikeane]

I think defensive set pieces are officially a problem now. Since the City game in January where they crowded Vicario (first time I recall seeing that), we've conceded 14 goals and 7 have been set pieces (5 corners). That's awful and eliminating some of those as you say would see us above Villa in the table. Major area of work, IMO.

I posted somewhere else before the season that we wouldn't miss Kane's goals, that we'd manage to score in other ways - point proven with us scoring just as much as the highest goal scoring season we had with Kane. What I claimed we'd miss more was his work on defensive set pieces, he was most of the time the one to attack the ball and clear it. Richarlison also does decent, I wonder how many of those corner goals against come when Son is playing as a striker? Having Son as striker takes away both another tall player defending set pieces, as well as making us dependent on Kulusevski's hold up play since the striker has non. Not just about how much the striker scores.

 

[mil1lion]

I posted somewhere else before the season that we wouldn't miss Kane's goals, that we'd manage to score in other ways - point proven with us scoring just as much as the highest goal scoring season we had with Kane. What I claimed we'd miss more was his work on defensive set pieces, he was most of the time the one to attack the ball and clear it. Richarlison also does decent, I wonder how many of those corner goals against come when Son is playing as a striker? Having Son as striker takes away both another tall player defending set pieces, as well as making us dependent on Kulusevski's hold up play since the striker has non. Not just about how much the striker scores.

We also lack a big physical number 6 like a Rodri or Rice and our centre backs are not the strongest in the air.
I think we miss Kane in both boxes for sure, I also think we really miss the ball sticking with him up top to allow players time to over or under lap the run.
The ball just doesn't really stick with Son or Richarlison. I personally think we need a number 9 this summer more than a wide forward. There's times we get great balls in and no centre forward attacking it like the Sarr cross 2nd half last night. That's probably one area we could get a more suited forward who can hold up play but has the striker instincts in the box and also helps defend set pieces.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

We also lack a big physical number 6 like a Rodri or Rice and our centre backs are not the strongest in the air.
I think we miss Kane in both boxes for sure, I also think we really miss the ball sticking with him up top to allow players time to over or under lap the run.
The ball just doesn't really stick with Son or Richarlison. I personally think we need a number 9 this summer more than a wide forward. There's times we get great balls in and no centre forward attacking it like the Sarr cross 2nd half last night. That's probably one area we could get a more suited forward who can hold up play but has the striker instincts in the box and also helps defend set pieces.

Agree, a top number 9 will make a bigger difference, it will knit things together. Gyrokeres looks like he could be an interesting option. I like Isak as well, though would be difficult.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Very much in support of Ange but am concerned about our defensive frailties under him.

We concede cheap goals especially from set plays.

 

[NEVILLEB]

We also lack a big physical number 6 like a Rodri or Rice and our centre backs are not the strongest in the air.
I think we miss Kane in both boxes for sure, I also think we really miss the ball sticking with him up top to allow players time to over or under lap the run.
The ball just doesn't really stick with Son or Richarlison. I personally think we need a number 9 this summer more than a wide forward. There's times we get great balls in and no centre forward attacking it like the Sarr cross 2nd half last night. That's probably one area we could get a more suited forward who can hold up play but has the striker instincts in the box and also helps defend set pieces.

Totally agree

 

[jolsnogross]

Despite our progress, we're a bit dull. We haven't had a really exciting game in a while, it's all rather stodgy with close wins, losses or draws. Nothing to be alarmed about, but not entertaining either. The players seem to be risk averse in the final third, so we overplay there and rarely get a shot off.

Ange mentions how we control games without putting opponents under pressure, but doesn't seem to have a solution just yet. He doesn't have a wand, but it would be good if he insisted on more crossing and shooting.

 

[TOLBINY]

I think early season teams would not have expected or anticipated our attacking play. Even if they knew how Ange sets up at previous teams I'm not sure they expected it to apply so early. After years of defensive play I'm sure they felt they could be open and attack while we gradually improve our attack. It's clear in this 2nd half of season more teams are setting up to stop our attacks. Even Villa at home adjusted to a back 5 and played more on the counter. That will also mean we have to adjust to them being more defensive.

This is a learning season for Ange and the players. Now teams know how we will play we have to play it so well they can't stop it. The element of surprise is gone now so it then comes down to having the quality of player to make it work more frequently. It's kind of like everyone knew Messi will come inside on his left but he was still too good to stop.

I also think fitness is going to be key next season. This is the first time in some time we have played this front foot press. It's a different physical approach to sitting back to counter. Early season we were much more intense especially at the start of games. I do feel they're really feeling that this half of the season too. I expect they'll be better conditioned after this season.

I think every manager needs that 2nd season to truly judge how things are progressing. No manager ever gets his system fully set or his own team in place in 1 year.

Ranieri at Leicester? yeh but......

 

[Metalhead]

I didn't see the game last night as I was working and to be quite honest it's a nice break.

We sold our greatest ever player just before the season started and I think every single fan wrote the season off. Well with 9 games left we're fifth , in with a great shout if top four and have played some great football and found some real superstars in players like Vicario, Udogie and Sarr.

And yet I still see plenty of negativity over socials. Not for me, we're doing well and probably ahead of schedule.

The bar, as I remember, was generally pretty low coming into the season - a coach that supporters could warm to, who was happy to be there as opposed to 'doing us a favour' and something better than the type of football that we'd been used to watching under the last co three coaches (and the back end of Poch's tenure). Ange has come in and set the bar higher as a result of the first ten games or so. It's a process -as clichéd as that term is and requires patience, which definitely doesn't exist in the modern game.

 

[mil1lion]

Ranieri at Leicester? yeh but......

If only teams adjusted to them that season like they have with us this season, instead they took them serious the following season as they sunk down the table. I guess the title win would make it seem like he had it all set from day one but he didn't last long for a reason.

 

[thebenjamin]

Despite our progress, we're a bit dull. We haven't had a really exciting game in a while, it's all rather stodgy with close wins, losses or draws. Nothing to be alarmed about, but not entertaining either. The players seem to be risk averse in the final third, so we overplay there and rarely get a shot off.

Ange mentions how we control games without putting opponents under pressure, but doesn't seem to have a solution just yet. He doesn't have a wand, but it would be good if he insisted on more crossing and shooting.

I think a lot of that is because teams know how we're going to play and adapt their formations to stifle us. Any team will find it tough against 11 players defending their own box. City vs arsenal for example, city basically didn't create anything the whole game. Teama crowd the middle to stop Destiny and Porro, shadow Maddison all over the pitch. I'm looking forward to us playing some of the better teams who won't put 11 behind the ball against us.

 

[Pip]

I'm very much in agreement with those who think Ange has done a pretty remarkable job thus far. I had us finishing 7th or 8th at best given where we started from. Has it been perfect, no. But it's worth remembering that no manager gets this league right first time, not Pep, not Klopp, what they all said is they underestimated the quality of teams throughout the league - meaning there was little to no let up throughout the season.

Objectively in the last 12-15months we've:
- Lost the world's best striker who papered over cracks for years
- Lost our club captain who was, for better or worse, a huge dressing room influence
- Replaced 4 of our starting back 5 (inc. GK)
- Signed a creative 10 that we've been crying out for years for (and we've seen the problems we've had when he's been injured or out of form)
- Completely changed the style of football from utter defensive dross towards a much more attacking style - albeit still a work in progress in the forward department in particular, which generally speaking is always the last to click
- Brought in a manager who, rather than bring an entourage of coaches, has decided to work with what we had and develop them (again for better or worse)
- Signed a number of quality young players "relatively" cheaply who could and should only improve as they get used to the league and Ange's style of play (Udogie, Porro, Johnson, Van de Ven, Dragusin, Kulu)

Ange does, I feel, have a big decision looming regarding Son - as much as I absolutely love the guy he's just not built for teams that park the bus (which we increasingly are facing) at CF, especially as his hold up and link play isn't great, nor does he have the legs, speed, close control or dribbling ability to play as an outright winger in our system - would he be happy next season as a rotation option against teams who we know will leave the space he needs to work with? Is Ange ruthless enough to do that?

Aside from anything else it's so bloody refreshing to have a manager who talks like a normal person and not a frenzied football cliched robot. I have no doubt that as a motivator he's the right man for our club and you can feel the tight knit family atmosphere he's trying to build (whilst being distant enough to hand out a bollocking or two if required.)

Given all the above, if I think about the trajectory we are on rather than where we are right now I only see positive signs, from players signings and sales, to tactics, to the culture of the club. Will it be enough to challenge for the title next year that Ange wants, I'm not so sure, but I have zero problem with him aiming for that and getting that mentality into the players and the club.

tldr: I'm fully behind Ange.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Basically nobody expected us to finish in the CL spots this season following the loss of Harry Kane. If we achieve it then that can only be seen as a big success for Ange.

However, a number of factors have led to what is now a general feeling of disappointment: no domestic cup run despite having no European competition to contend with, and a fairly dramatic drop off in performance compared with the opening three months of the season is the main one. Arsenal being in a title race doesn’t help at all. Perspective is required though: we are (hopefully) at the beginning of something and if anyone expected this to be a linear path to success then they were overly optimistic.

 

[DannyNZ]

Zonal marking is just not the way forward at all. At the very least you need players picking up the runners because we are giving up free headers as it stands with no pressure on the jumper at all. Even the slightest contact is sometimes enough to put the player off and stop a goal.

Zonal marking is just your starting positions, once the balls in play you have to attack the ball and challenge the runners into your zone. Our zonal defending was almost completely static, Zouma almost looked lonely in among half a dozen of our players but both ball and Zouma went unchallenged.

 

[McFlash]

I've said all along, 6th would be a successful season for us.
Nothing's changed.

 

[TOLBINY]

If only teams adjusted to them that season like they have with us this season, instead they took them serious the following season as they sunk down the table. I guess the title win would make it seem like he had it all set from day one but he didn't last long for a reason.

I always felt it was the players that let Ranieri down 2nd season, the results were poor but as soon as he left and Shakespeare took over results improved (I think they beat Liverpool in his first game in charge?)

 

[Albertbarich]

The bar, as I remember, was generally pretty low coming into the season - a coach that supporters could warm to, who was happy to be there as opposed to 'doing us a favour' and something better than the type of football that we'd been used to watching under the last co three coaches (and the back end of Poch's tenure). Ange has come in and set the bar higher as a result of the first ten games or so. It's a process -as clichéd as that term is and requires patience, which definitely doesn't exist in the modern game.

I'm finding the overreaction to absolutely everything that happens more and more tiresome.

And it's not a spurs fan thing , seems to be a football thing in general. And it's not just the negatives either. We can win one game and the same people who blow their minds if we lose will then go just as over the top the other way.

I really don't need 3 days of analysis of one referees decision and I don't need to read people declaring that this manager isn't working because we conceded one goal to a set piece.

There are definitely things to work on but we're also definitely moving in the right direction and that's about as good as you get in transition seasons like this.

As you say patience has all but disappeared from supporters