Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Styopa]

I really think a lot of our issues right now come down to needing better and/or more suitable players and especially to have better players to rotate with.

It feels like we are halfway there but we’re still four or five top players short of really competing.

Everyone is talking about being caught out by set pieces or our own high press but these are fairly tractable problems imo. Ange is not an idiot. If a bunch of guys on an internet forum can see , it’s not like he can’t.

For me though, if you have e.g Udogie, Porro and Bissouma all out of form
and your alternatives are Davies, Emerson and Hojbjerg, then you have a fundamental problem with the composition of the squad which is going to take a few more windows to rectify.

Similarly we lack quality up front full stop, which is not surprising given we sold Kane and effectively replaced him with Johnson and Werner. With all due respect to them both, they’re not in the same league as Kane.

We did a complete u-turn with Ange after four years years of Mourinho-Nuno-Conte football, so it’s not surprising the squad still needs a lot of work. And obviously the Kane sale compounded that.

 

[TOLBINY]

I do have to admire your dedication to Antonio.

Seems like you and lots of others are missing / avoiding the point - which is why a £15M a year proven title winning manager (name irrelevant) would want to leave? Because I suspect most of the answers lead us to some uncomforatble home truths about OUR football club.

 

[Gilzeanking]

I think the main issue is in a high quality pressing team, players with an ability to execute a long accurate pass to an Isak don't have the time to actually get their head up and get an accurate pass away. We're allowing that at the moment and it's devastating. It will change though IMHO.

Yep exactly. Our players are not a 'high quality pressing team' due, imo to lack of effort/motivation.

 

[Styopa]

Seems like you and lots of others are missing / avoiding the point - which is why a £15M a year proven title winning manager (name irrelevant) would want to leave? Because I suspect most of the answers lead us to some uncomforatble home truths about OUR football club.

No one is avoiding it, we just don’t want to talk endlessly about Conte in the Ange thread.

Maybe take it over to the Conte thread and those interested can talk about it with you there?

 

[dontcallme]

Seems like you and lots of others are missing / avoiding the point - which is why a £15M a year proven title winning manager (name irrelevant) would want to leave? Because I suspect most of the answers lead us to some uncomforatble home truths about OUR football club.

You going about Conte all the time is beyond boring and just spam at this point.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Seems like you and lots of others are missing / avoiding the point - which is why a £15M a year proven title winning manager (name irrelevant) would want to leave? Because I suspect most of the answers lead us to some uncomforatble home truths about OUR football club.

I can't believe how many posts you've danced around the houses on this. If you want a good Levy bash there's a thread for it.

 

[Metalhead]

Seems like you and lots of others are missing / avoiding the point - which is why a £15M a year proven title winning manager (name irrelevant) would want to leave? Because I suspect most of the answers lead us to some uncomforatble home truths about OUR football club.

If you're referring to people having a problem with Conte being backed (or not), you'll find plenty of people who had an issue with ENIC/Levy at the time (and many who still do). The thing is that it is important to consider that there are various factors that determine the level of support that a head coach gets. Some coaches, the fans just don't take to. Look at Moyes at West Ham - we'd look at them and consider that they are an ungrateful bunch of so and so's for the way that the fan base treats him. Our last two coaches that won us trophies, neither of them clicked with the fans. Martin Jol didn't win anything of note but is fondly remembered to this day because he clicked with the fans and understood the club.

I know that you don't understand why people will give Ange a break when they didn't with Conte but part of that is the reason that I just explained.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Yep exactly. Our players are not a 'high quality pressing team' due, imo to lack of effort/motivation.

But what's happened for that change? First third of the season they were unstoppable. Was that just post-conte/new manager bounce? Biss, Madds, Son, Kulu... there's a good few players who've dropped off in this final third of the season. That can't be as simple as not being arsed anymore. Something's going on to cause that.

I wouldn't be able to guess what. I've alluded to my theory in the latest match thread that I think our players have it far too cushy here and they become soft, regardless of management team/squad personnel.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

But what's happened for that change? First third of the season they were unstoppable. Was that just post-conte/new manager bounce? Biss, Madds, Son, Kulu... there's a good few players who've dropped off in this final third of the season. That can't be as simple as not being arsed anymore. Something's going on to cause that.

I wouldn't be able to guess what. I've alluded to my theory in the lates match thread that I think our players have it far too cushy here and they become soft, regardless of management team/squad personnel.

@rossdapep highlighted that it's pretty common in teams changing to this style in their 1st season especially as we don't have key players to rotate in.

 

[Gassin's finest]

@rossdapep highlighted that it's pretty common in teams changing to this style in their 1st season especially as we don't have key players to rotate in.

So they're basically getting run ragged?

 

[funkycoldmedina]

So they're basically getting run ragged?

I think it's a combination of things but yes that, as well as not having all the right players needed for it plus maybe mental fatigue.

 

[Albertbarich]

I haven't looked at the stats but I feel like if we were better at defending set pieces and crosses In general we would comfortably be fourth, if not challenging the top three.

We all knew Saturday's results might happen this season because it's such a high risk play but if we had sorted out the corners after the cup game and then focuses on crosses as a whole the end of the season would be a lot smoother.

I also think a lot of people maybe are presuming what Ange wants and getting the wrong end of the stick. I'd love a tricky winger and another playmaker type but we have chosen fast players who run away from the ball I'd imagine on Anges request. I also wonder if for the calls of a defensive midfielder, Ange is happy with Bissouma there with Bentancour as back up.

Have patience, it's annoying after Saturday but we knew this was a season of change.

 

[easley91]

Seems like you and lots of others are missing / avoiding the point - which is why a £15M a year proven title winning manager (name irrelevant) would want to leave? Because I suspect most of the answers lead us to some uncomforatble home truths about OUR football club.

You were quoted in the Conte thread and asked a question yet continue it in here? People have given you responses that you straight up ignore because you don't like the answers. If you really must continue the Conte chat take it there.

 

[Trix]

Seems like you and lots of others are missing / avoiding the point - which is why a £15M a year proven title winning manager (name irrelevant) would want to leave? Because I suspect most of the answers lead us to some uncomforatble home truths about OUR football club.

You are getting a lot of stick for this but I think I get your point, and agree that others are ignoring/missing it.

When Conte was here a fair few of us kept hammering down on the fact that Conte needed specific player types to get the best out of him as a coach, and that it was Levy's fault for not getting them as he knew exactly what he was getting when he hired AC. This was met by a number of posters on here that a highly paid Premier league coach needed to adjust and work with the players he had. Ironic isn't it that many of those same posters are now saying that Ange needs more specific players suited to his way of playing in order to bring success to his philosophy. Fact is I agree on both counts, and every manager with an outlined philosophy will require a large number of specific players to play that particular way.

Levy failed last time round, lets hope he plays this one differently because irrespective of style of play a coach with a set in stone way of playing needs substantial help from board level to achieve that. Thus there are more similarities between Conte and Ange than there are differences at a similar stage in Conte's tenure. And no I'm not talking about principles of play, I'm talking about everything else. Ange needs backing and far more than Conte got regarding the players he wanted to bring in.

 

[dontcallme]

Agree.

When Conte was here a fair few of us kept hammering down on the fact that Conte needed specific player types to get the best out of him as a coach, and that it was Levy's fault for not getting them as he knew exactly what he was getting when he hired AC. This was met by a number of posters on here that a highly paid Premier league coach needed to adjust and work with the players he had. Ironic isn't it that many of those same posters are now saying that Ange needs more specific players suited to his way of playing in order to bring success to his philosophy. Fact is I agree on both counts, and every manager with an outlined philosophy will require a large number of specific players to play that particular way.

Levy failed last time round, lets hope he plays this one differently because irrespective of style of play a coach with a set in stone way of playing needs substantial help from board level to achieve that. Thus there are more similarities between Conte and Ange than there are differences at this stage of Conte's tenure. And no I'm not talking about principles of play, I'm talking about everything else.

The point is that pretty much every manager needs specific types of player and character to fully function, but this takes time. It's never fixed within 1-2 windows.

Ange seems to get this and it appeared for a while Conte did too. Then Conte started moaning to the press and criticising the players publicly, this only ever ends one way.

Conte was a very exciting hire and if he'd shown commitment to the long run, we'd have supported, same as most of us are doing with Ange right now.

 

[Trix]

The point is that pretty much every manager needs specific types of player and character to fully function, but this takes time. It's never fixed within 1-2 windows.

Ange seems to get this and it appeared for a while Conte did too. Then Conte started moaning to the press and criticising the players publicly, this only ever ends one way.

Conte was a very exciting hire and if he'd shown commitment to the long run, we'd have supported, same as most of us are doing with Ange right now.

Yeah but ask yourself why? I want to keep this Ange related so ask yourself if he wants player x and is given a Djed Spence type signing instead is he going to stay happy for long? Don't get me wrong I 100% think he will handle it differently as I think he'd just walk, but just because we spent money does not mean Conte was sufficiently backed, he was not. It needs to be different under Ange or we will end up with the same result. An unhappy manager, and infighting behind the scenes. Conte didn't fail here, as much as he was failed by the board.

 

[Gassin's finest]

I think it's a combination of things but yes that, as well as not having all the right players needed for it plus maybe mental fatigue.

Personally, I think this.

 

[dontcallme]

Yeah but ask yourself why? I want to keep this Ange related so ask yourself if he wants player x and is given a Djed Spence type signing instead is he going to stay happy for long? Don't get me wrong I 100% think he will handle it differently as I think he'd just walk, but just because we spent money does not mean Conte was sufficiently backed, he was not. It needs to be different under Ange or we will end up with the same result. An unhappy manager, and infighting behind the scenes. Conte didn't fail here, as much as he was failed by the board.

Spence was a bad one off. We did spend on huge wages for Perisic. We also brought in Romero, Richarlison and Bissouma during Conte's short time here.

 

[allatsea]

Seems like you and lots of others are missing / avoiding the point - which is why a £15M a year proven title winning manager (name irrelevant) would want to leave? Because I suspect most of the answers lead us to some uncomforatble home truths about OUR football club.

Not again

 

[Trix]

Spence was a bad one off. We did spend on huge wages for Perisic. We also brought in Romero, Richarlison and Bissouma during Conte's short time here.

Indeed, and how many of those were his prime targets and how many of those were "for a position Conte wanted filled". There is a big difference between the two btw when it comes to implementing a specific way of playing.

FWIW I believe Ange has far more scrutiny of the incomings than Conte had, and Conte should have insured on day one the final say was always his, but again spending money does not completely equate to "being backed".