Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Timbo Tottenham]

Sorry but IMO this is very much Ange related. His style of play and philosophy are only as important as all his other traits and beliefs and how all that sync's together with the thinking of the THFC Board.

At least you’ve been trying to keep this Ange related, but there are certain other posters whose obsessions with Conte/Levy have meant that they have not.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

That's not what's happening. Not from my part anyway. I think/hope things are different under Ange and Levy does seem like he's learnt from Conte. You have to admit though it's quite clear Ange is not the coach many thought he was. What I mean by that is he does need certain player types and can't just work with what he has in the same way Conte did. Too many are looking at the differences between Ange and Conte and are completely ignoring the similarities. It is imo in those similarities why Conte failed here. Levy needs to do better, which tbf he looks like he is, otherwise it'll be the same outcome.

I didn't think you were, I think that what the poster is after that though.

The differentiator for me is that Ange has worked with the squad and is taking a long term view to it. I was never bothered by the League Cup team because he needed to see players in a competitive environment and off the back of that Sanchez was sold to leave himself short at CB but he knows he needed to do it to bring in someone quickly. He's taken a pragmatic view to building the squad and you can see improvement in players. Most players went backwards or stayed the same under Conte.

 

[branchie]

Doesn't every coach have "their" style and "their" type of player?

 

[dontcallme]

Doesn't every coach have "their" style and "their" type of player?

Yes. The important thing is for the manager to see it through, get good results in the transition period, for the board to help in seeing through that vision and for the fans to have the patience to see it through.

At the moment I think the manager is doing his end of the bargain, we appear to have a good transfer committee in place and most fans are currently supportive of the manager.

 

[Trix]

I didn't think you were, I think that what the poster is after that though.

The differentiator for me is that Ange has worked with the squad and is taking a long term view to it. I was never bothered by the League Cup team because he needed to see players in a competitive environment and off the back of that Sanchez was sold to leave himself short at CB but he knows he needed to do it to bring in someone quickly. He's taken a pragmatic view to building the squad and you can see improvement in players. Most players went backwards or stayed the same under Conte.

Indeed but Kane and Son blossomed. There are certainly a huge number of variables at play as to why it didn't work for AC. Some his, and some are firmly on the club. I posted on here towards the end of Conte's first season they were discussing contracts, then the Summer window came and went and everything changed. Conte was stubborn for sure, but I don't think Ange is too different in that regard. He is driven, uncompromising in his beliefs and isn't satisfied with second best. That's why I keep saying things have to be different from above because Like Conte he won't stand for it.

 

[Trix]

Doesn't every coach have "their" style and "their" type of player?

Of course but some are more compromising in that regard than others. "Also rans" is no good for Ange regardless of the stature of the club he is at. For Harry it was as good as it gets finishing 4th.

 

[Styopa]

Doesn't every coach have "their" style and "their" type of player?

Yep every single coach we have ever had has wanted their own type of player, from Jol to Redknapp to AVB to Poch to Conte to Ange. I think the ones who have tended to do the best are the ones who were here for several windows and focused on attainable targets, and working with what they had, whereas the ones who have tended to struggle are the ones who were here for a limited number of windows and had more unattainable targets.

 

[jolsnogross]

Footy under Conte was atrocious and he behaved like a child. And he was also screwed over by Levy.

I wondered how long it would take for this to rear up again. I think this is premature. Ange isn't at this point yet. And hopefully still quite a way from it.

Ange has been tolerating sub par performance for too long these past weeks. But he’s not blaming the board or other people around him and acting up. I have my doubts that he'll be able to overcome the comfortable and casual approach that Spurs teams inevitably succumb to. But I think we're still some way from hitting a Conte style tantrum or wall.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

So you can't answer my question then? Is it because we all know why Levy built the stadium for and it isn't to benefit the football club?

So he could spend more on players, due to superior negotiation with Bill Kenwright (RIP) at Scotts in Mayfair he managed to get an £80 million rated player for £60 million that's a 25% discount.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Indeed but Kane and Son blossomed. There are certainly a huge number of variables at play as to why it didn't work for AC. Some his, and some are firmly on the club. I posted on here towards the end of Conte's first season they were discussing contracts, then the Summer window came and went and everything changed. Conte was stubborn for sure, but I don't think Ange is too different in that regard. He is driven, uncompromising in his beliefs and isn't satisfied with second best. That's why I keep saying things have to be different from above because Like Conte he won't stand for it.

Thanks for this and I'm on the same page.
Son and Kane are elite, a coaches job at a club like Spurs is to improve that player at the level or 2 below. Conte's success generally comes when he's working with the very best. His appointment was misguided and that was on Levy.

 

[Trix]

Footy under Conte was atrocious and he behaved like a child. And he was also screwed over by Levy.

I wondered how long it would take for this to rear up again. I think this is premature. Ange isn't at this point yet. And hopefully still quite a way from it.

Ange has been tolerating sub par performance for too long these past weeks. But he’s not blaming the board or other people around him and acting up. I have my doubts that he'll be able to overcome the comfortable and casual approach that Spurs teams inevitably succumb to. But I think we're still some way from hitting a Conte style tantrum or wall.

Indeed and I have no doubt he won't act the same way Conte did even if it gets to that point. The two of them are very different in that regard. Like I said everyone is focussing on the differences and ignoring the similarities. Those similarities will be the reason he fails here, if of course he does.

 

[PLTuck]

I'm seeing lots of debates about CV's, experience 'at this level' etc.

Football management isn't an exact science. That's it really. One thing's for sure though, stability lends itself more to long term success than chopping and changing every 5 minutes.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

One of the big problems we have currently imo is that we simply don’t have anyone in attack who has the individual ability to score goals or create from moments of magic.

Son used to score screamers from nothing but he doesn’t shoot now and he’s also starting to naturally decline.

If you look at the nature of our other attackers, Johnson has scored his goals from big chances that have been created for him, same with Werner. Deki is the same really.

We don’t have anyone who can do things like Saka, Foden, Doku the other day etc.

A lot of that comes back to a lack of 1v1 ability and we have to rectify it asap because every team, no matter how good they are, will always have an element of being able to create chances and goals from nothing or tight spaces.

These are the fine margins which open up tight games or win matches at vital moments etc.

It is really great how Ange has got us scoring a lot of team goals from nicely created chances but I think it’s really important that he adds players to our squad who can bring individual quality as this will make us a lot more dangerous.

spot on this for me is our biggest issue which is why in summer for me the 2 priorities need to be a top class striker who can score something out of nothing and a top class winger who can create and score out of nothing, something like Berbatov/Defoe & Bale type players.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

That is pretty much exactly what City, Scum and Pool do all the time.

The difference is they recover better and either win it back before the ball is played and or position themselves in stronger positions to cut out more of the counters. Even then they all get done. Look at City away to Palace last week, got done after 4 minutes. Scum got done with Watkins goal at the weekend etc.

The main issue with Newcastle’s 3rd goal and Isak running in was really that VdV had a complete nightmare. He let him run off him when he had total responsibility and visibility of him. As soon as the ball was being played he should have already been with Isak and tracking him. Had he done this he’d have stopped the counter in its tracks and given our other players time to recover.

Great points, also comes back to how well we control games in the first place, City at their best rarely get done by counters because they keep the ball so well and create so many chances and the ball keeps coming back to them, when we are off it and not dominating teams we end up letting them play through us and then they have pretty large spaces to attack and exploit.

If we had better attacks who could create something from nothing and beat their man and perhaps a bit of an upgrade in midfield then we’d control games far better like we were for phases at the start of the season and so we wouldn’t be conceding so many chances and goals.

 

[alfie103]

So he could spend more on players, due to superior negotiation with Bill Kenwright at Scotts in Mayfair he managed to get an £80 million rated player for £60 million that's a 25% discount.

So that means we can rival the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and others when buying players? Because other people say we will never get to that level.

 

[dontcallme]

I'm seeing lots of debates about CV's, experience 'at this level' etc.

Football management isn't an exact science. That's it really. One thing's for sure though, stability lends itself more to long term success than chopping and changing every 5 minutes.

One poster brought that up, no prizes for guessing who. The time for judging CV's is at the recruitment stage.

We've seen Ange in action for almost a full season now, that's what the sane people are judging him on.

 

[PLTuck]

spot on this for me is our biggest issue which is why in summer for me the 2 priorities need to be a top class striker who can score something out of nothing and a top class winger who can create and score out of nothing, something like Berbatov/Defoe & Bale type players.

I think we do need a striker, but not necessarily one that will score from nothing. We create plenty. Imo we need a clinical finisher who also has good hold up play.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

One of the central tenets of Ange style is surely a heavy press of the opposition defence.

This is something we don't see anymore. There is always an easy outball. Sonny goes racing up to the goalie holding the ball, who then easily passes out to unmarked defenders. This is in stark contrast to say, Newcastle who locked us up good..

Like our midfielders not getting back quick enough it's a question of plain effort not being put in. We hear a lot about growth, but it's all for nothing if players aren't motivated.

I don’t think the players aren’t motivated more that they’re very tired due to coming back from injuries, international tournaments in Jan and not being used to this style of play over a full season yet.

 

[muppetman]

The stuff about Ange managing in lesser leagues being an issue is a bit of an odd one to me. Most leagues are competitive, so if you are winning at that level you are doing well. The PL is tougher than the Aussie league (I assume as I don't watch the Aussie one!), but we have better players to counteract that.

As far as I know, he's never gone to a dominant team or had better players than everyone else - but has managed to win wherever he's been.

It's always seemed like a good fit for Spurs and a few shitty results in what was expected to be a turbulent season isn't changing that.

I'm also really, really bored of the churn of managers - we need to find someone and stick with them for once, even when it gets bumpy and have a bit of faith.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I really think a lot of our issues right now come down to needing better and/or more suitable players and especially to have better players to rotate with.

It feels like we are halfway there but we’re still four or five top players short of really competing.

Everyone is talking about being caught out by set pieces or our own high press but these are fairly tractable problems imo. Ange is not an idiot. If a bunch of guys on an internet forum can see , it’s not like he can’t.

For me though, if you have e.g Udogie, Porro and Bissouma all out of form
and your alternatives are Davies, Emerson and Hojbjerg, then you have a fundamental problem with the composition of the squad which is going to take a few more windows to rectify.

Similarly we lack quality up front full stop, which is not surprising given we sold Kane and effectively replaced him with Johnson and Werner. With all due respect to them both, they’re not in the same league as Kane.

We did a complete u-turn with Ange after four years years of Mourinho-Nuno-Conte football, so it’s not surprising the squad still needs a lot of work. And obviously the Kane sale compounded that.

agree with this.

Get Ange 5-6 in summer and we will be more consistent next season.