Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Whazam]

That's why I said Man City are far better at it. They make less mistakes than any other team.

I dont think they deviated too much, we had to come out and be aggressive, force them back, there was no other choice. We played well but still nearly went 4-0 down at the same time, twice.

Romero hit the post and could have had 2 others go in too but went just wide and over respectively. We were a little wasteful but a good chance should also be making the opposition keeper work a bit harder, especially at home.

I think you should watch the first half again and see how many times we suffocated them, though.

I can't understand what point your are making in the second paragraph. I'm saying we didn't manage to force them back as much in the second half because they made an effort to get more possession.

Of course we should have, but that's not really on the tactics, that's about the finishing? A chance is a chance, no? Or would a penalty not be a great chance to score just because it was blasted over the bar and the keeper didn't have to break a sweat?

 

[Ray Ray]

We have to give him time but it’s hugely concerning that he is doing zero about the set pieces or the passing round the back. It’s clearly an issue costing us every week.

Surely just changing to man marking at set pieces isn't deviating from your tactical stand point, but at least gives our defenders the opportunity to stop them having 2/3 on 1 situations to try and defend.

If Richy is fit, stick him at the front post and let the rest mark man to man. At least then your putting the onus on the attacker to work harder to be free in the box rather than simply walking onto a free header.

 

[chas vs dave]

Could well of won today had it been addressed.

And I get that ange is installing a cultural change by sticking to his principles. However, I'm not sure defending set pieces like a bunch of amateurs is in his ethos

 

[Styopa]

He's either too stubborn or just naive. If this was Jose or Conte for example conceding the same chances week in week out they would be getting hell, but because we play slightly more positive football I feel Ange is being a given the benefit of the doubt.

Ange is literally called out every week in here, at least since around October. Even when we win.

Secondly, one of the main reasons he is given the benefit of the doubt is, rightly or wrongly, people can imagine him sticking around for a few years, and, rightly or wrongly, people couldn’t see that with Mourinho or Conte. That gives a different perspective.

Although I also agree people give him some leeway for the type of football he is associated with. But I think that’s understandable.

 

[dontcallme]

Well, one thing is for sure: if he stays stubborn and we keep conceding like we are, he won't be around long.

That is the sad reality. Very few teams, if any, can regularly outscore the opposition when they have such a glaring weakness defensively.

 

[Impspur1]

There were certainly a lot of positives too today. I think they are being overlooked due to the result, and we will probably see them more clearly on reflection.

Absolutely. I thought at times second half we clicked into our early season fluidity a little and looked better, Just too little to late

 

[spurs mental]

I think you should watch the first half again and see how many times we suffocated them, though.

I can't understand what point your are making in the second paragraph. I'm saying we didn't manage to force them back as much in the second half because they made an effort to get more possession.

Of course we should have, but that's not really on the tactics, that's about the finishing? A chance is a chance, no? Or would a penalty not be a great chance to score just because it was blasted over the bar and the keeper didn't have to break a sweat?

We suffocated them at times, but we still ended up 3 down.

I'm saying they didn't deviate too much from their plan from the first half, they had more of the ball because we had to be more aggressive with our passing and pressing and they played through it better.

The finishing yes, it was lacking, but also the speed of our build up was lacking at times, and if we moved the ball a bit quicker we create better chances.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Sadly yes. Early season form maybe masked defensive deficiencies. We were carving sides open but aren’t so much now. Better in parts today though.

We were better then for the same reason we were better today, desire. The lads need to play like every ball matters and the system/ethos works a whole lot better.

Do we have things to work on? Ofcourse. But if we have that fire we can overcome weaknesses before we have time to work on them.

Another pre-season and some tactical tweaking, we’ll be in very good shape for the new season. The only thing we need to keep up is the desire, that’s why Arsenal are competing for a title. They have consistent desire.

 

[Ray Ray]

Not true imo. For a start Ange is literally called out every week in here, at least since around October. Even when we win.

Secondly, one of the main reasons he is given the benefit of the doubt is, rightly or wrongly, people can imagine him sticking around for a few years, and, rightly or wrongly, people couldn’t see that with Mourinho and Conte. That gives a different perspective.

Although I also agree people give him some leeway for the type of football he is associated with. But I think that’s understandable.

He's not called out every week, everyone (including myself) can see that he needs to put his stamp on the squad, but maybe what is slightly worrying is that he's also showing that he's potentially as tactically inflexible as those guys, yet they where jumped on from the start.

I think Ange has been great in the main, but in all honesty if you can't spot simple overloads such as 3 Vs 2 in a counter or that the zonal marking isn't working then surely there has to be some qiestions asked of him?

 

[mil1lion]

I'll explain but tbh I thought it was pretty obvious.

What happens is you put your defensive players into sections roughly 2m apart. That area is then their responsibility, and that's why they can't leave it.

The opposition then rush a small area in unison creating an overload. This means not only do they now have a numbers advantage in that small 2m area but they also have momentum over a static player with no run up. The goals today are a great example of this. An Arsenal surge in number from the back post to the front post. Not only do our defenders have no idea they are coming but are swarmed by the time ball gets there.

You see the attacking team has the advantage of knowing roughly where the set piece taker is going to try and put the ball. Our guys are just standing there hoping it falls on one of their heads.

This system was dropped by everyone decent over a decade ago. Football coaching now is all about creating overloads where you can gain a numbers advantage in good areas. So many drills teams do now focus on this. It's why Ange pushes his fullbacks into midfield for example. I'm amazed he can't see it.

The first goal came from Hojbjerg at the near post getting the wrong side and not being strong enough in the air. That same situation occurs with man to man marking.
The second goal comes from within the 6 yard box and nobody follows the flight of the ball. Same again, if players mark man to man it still requires players to be strong and attack the ball. There were players marking far post so they either have to be blocking them off from making the run, or follow the run and they have the same run for the ball as the attacker.
I'm not saying zonal isn't floored but I think you're being kind to the players to suggest there's nothing they can do. Essentially they take no blame or responsibility. They still have to defend some of them better simple as that. Floored tactics or not.

 

[nedley]

He has confidence in his methods and that is something refreshing to me.

A lot of the not willing to learn from what's going wrong and definition of madness are sound bites to when a manager is under pressure. Klopp lost 3 cup finals before he got it right, Arteta was wanted dead for finishing mid table and Pep had his worst season as a manger when he started at City. All were too stubborn and or the definition of madness. Although all had tons of cash thrown at them and I don't remember them losing their best player the week the season started.

I admit this doesn't look good and I'm not gonna pretend it is, but the writing was on the wall when it became obvious that we couldn't get out and in all the players we wanted to during the summer and it was simply too big a task.

Also, we haven't had much luck with injuries this season, when was the last time Soloman played for us? Etc.

Not the confidence to play Bissouma or Bentancur at 6 though in the biggest game of our season..

Proper bottled that.

 

[Impspur1]

Somebody mentioned in another thread I think about Johnson’s crossing, I thinks that’s a good point. Not just him but so many of the crosses were slow loopy ones that gave Raya time to catch. Not sure if that’s pressure, confidence or technique. I think it’s probably confidence

 

[Tucker]

Not the confidence to play Bissouma or Bentancur at 6 though in the biggest game of our season..

Proper bottled that.

Bissouma has been crap for months. He was right to drop him.

 

[Trix]

Surely just changing to man marking at set pieces isn't deviating from your tactical stand point, but at least gives our defenders the opportunity to stop them having 2/3 on 1 situations to try and defend.

If Richy is fit, stick him at the front post and let the rest mark man to man. At least then your putting the onus on the attacker to work harder to be free in the box rather than simply walking onto a free header.

Indeed I have no problem with having a man blocking the near post like Kane always did. I have no problem with putting fullbacks on the post or a man specifically to protect the keeper but you do need to have your best defenders picking up and marking runners. It's as simple as that.

 

[nedley]

Calm the fuck down and remember the state of the squad before he joined.

He’s still forced to play bang average players when someone in our XI is injured or out of form.

The drop off from Udogie and Davies is absolutely huge. We’re forced to play Hojbjerg because Bissouma is so badly out of form and let’s be honest, Pierre ain’t good enough either.

If this is still happening after the summer then he deserves digging out.

Aside from our defending of set pieces I’m still willing to give him a pass for this season.

You had me until that.

 

[nedley]

Bissouma has been crap for months. He was right to drop him.

Hoijberg earned his place did he?

 

[arunspurs]

Hoijberg earned his place did he?

Yes, Hojbjerg earned his place and he should keep starting games. Its not as if Hojbjerg was bad in midfield today. He did his job in midfield but failed as a unit in set pieces

 

[funkycoldmedina]

There were certainly a lot of positives too today. I think they are being overlooked due to the result, and we will probably see them more clearly on reflection.

I thought today we pressed and were more physical trying to win 1st and 2nd ball, what concerns me though is where has that been the last few weeks? You can't drift in and out of playing like that. It will be interesting to see our distance covered today as I bet it's gone up from recent weeks which means Newcastle and Fulham fixtures are a mentality thing.
I think we'll see an overhaul of some more established players this summer, the one who concerns him is Maddison as he was Ange's pick. His ball retention and passing accuracy is a big reason we turn over dangerous ball.

 

[Trix]

The first goal came from Hojbjerg at the near post getting the wrong side and not being strong enough in the air. That same situation occurs with man to man marking.
The second goal comes from within the 6 yard box and nobody follows the flight of the ball. Same again, if players mark man to man it still requires players to be strong and attack the ball. There were players marking far post so they either have to be blocking them off from making the run, or follow the run and they have the same run for the ball as the attacker.
I'm not saying zonal isn't floored but I think you're being kind to the players to suggest there's nothing they can do. Essentially they take no blame or responsibility. They still have to defend some of them better simple as that. Floored tactics or not.

PEH hasn't got the wrong side of anyone. He's held his ground. PEH was from a standing start and runners have come from behind him up the inside. The second goal was the same but they've just come from behind us at pace and got in front of us.

If you really can't see it I guess you can't see it, but I know you as a poster like to double down so I'm not sure if you are just refusing to see it. Take a look at everyone else's comments, everyone else can see it but you it seems.

 

[nedley]

Starting Hojbjerg over Bissouma is a no brainer. Its not like battle was lost in midfield.
Problem was lack of defending in set pieces

If I were to be unhappy with starting XI, thats probably down to not starting Richy. We have needed no9 presence for a while. Teams have been man marking us on build up phase. For me, Richy now has to start every game till end of season.

I reckon 99.9% of fans would have had Sarr in this starting 11.

The selection was shit. Full stop.