Marcus Edwards leaving rumour?

[Blake Griffin]

He won't go to another EPL club as there's an agreement in place between clubs not to poach from each other's academies before they sign pro contracts.

The only danger is from abroad (like Azzaoui)

that's not really true. city and liverpool are forever at it, as long as they think it will benefit them they don't care whose toes they have to step on. that said i think people are worrying over nothing with edwards.

 

[IGSpur]

Southampton? Espanol?

I guess they're different situations but while thought he gave youngsters a chance I was informed by @Dharmabum that this was not the case so again it doesn't matter. Like I said there is a big difference between continuing to give youngsters a chance and providing it. The former involves significantly less real as they would have already proven themselves in some respect. The latter takes a lot of guts and is what youngsters want to see.

There may be various reasons why chances aren't given but when that's all we have to sell to our young players and it's nor shown they won't care.

Other clubs cab also sell money

 

[IGSpur]

He won't go to another EPL club as there's an agreement in place between clubs not to poach from each other's academies before they sign pro contracts.

The only danger is from abroad (like Azzaoui)

While we hear about evidence points to the contrary. The mere fact man City are chasing Edwards suggests they don't care. Also Liverpool tried to poach Pritchard from us

 

[BC11]

that's not really true. city and liverpool are forever at it, as long as they think it will benefit them they don't care whose toes they have to step on. that said i think people are worrying over nothing with edwards.

If there is an agreement, some don't stick to it - City and Arsenal both tried to sign Edwards in the summer.

 

[beats1]

He won't go to another EPL club as there's an agreement in place between clubs not to poach from each other's academies before they sign pro contracts.

The only danger is from abroad (like Azzaoui)

I was aware that the agreement is only amongst the "big clubs", small clubs are considered fair game as WBA, Aston Villa and etc. found out with Brown, Sinclair, Crowley and etc

However there have been clubs who have ignored this and made moves for some of our players which we managed to knock back in the past

Also Azzaoui signed his pro contract otherwise we would have got a lot less than the £2m reported

With Edwards the motivation isn't money imo

 

[Trix]

I was aware that the agreement is only amongst the "big clubs", small clubs are considered fair game as WBA, Aston Villa and etc. found out with Brown, Sinclair, Crowley and etc

However there have been clubs who have ignored this and made moves for some of our players which we managed to knock back in the past

Also Azzaoui signed his pro contract otherwise we would have got a lot less than the £2m reported

With Edwards the motivation isn't money imo

I think the problem is that it was just an agreement made informally, and as such there are far too many grey area's.

 

[beats1]

I think the problem is that it was just an agreement made informally, and as such there are far too many grey area's.

Of course yet the big clubs are stupid for pushing for rules in the first place that would give clubs a pathetically small fixed fee for an academy player

The whole agreement is there to stop it becoming a free for all. The issue is a lot of the big clubs are investing more effort in recruiting young players at 16 rather than developing them at younger ages

 

[Sandro30]

A friend of mine scouts for Norwich and they're happy to pinch from elsewhere.

 

[Dharmabum]

I guess they're different situations but while thought he gave youngsters a chance I was informed by @Dharmabum that this was not the case so again it doesn't matter. Like I said there is a big difference between continuing to give youngsters a chance and providing it. The former involves significantly less real as they would have already proven themselves in some respect. The latter takes a lot of guts and is what youngsters want to see.

There may be various reasons why chances aren't given but when that's all we have to sell to our young players and it's nor shown they won't care.

Other clubs cab also sell money

Thanks for twisting my words.
What I said was that, at Soton, he did not give debut to any Soton players but he gave plenty of chance to youngsters who was already "introduced". It was you who claimed that he "introduced" many players at Soton and I refuted that
I clearly stated that I had no idea what happened at Espanyol for then to post an article where it said he gave debuts to plenty of youngesters.

 

[Yid-ol]

A friend of mine scouts for Norwich and they're happy to pinch from elsewhere.

I think the problem for Norwich is, who would want to go to them

 

[IGSpur]

Thanks for twisting my words.
What I said was that, at Soton, he did not give debut to any Soton players but he gave plenty of chance to youngsters who was already "introduced". It was you who claimed that he "introduced" many players at Soton and I refuted that
I clearly stated that I had no idea what happened at Espanyol for then to post an article where it said he gave debuts to plenty of youngesters.

My bad wasn't referring to Espanyol bit.

But re: Southampton that's my point. I'm saying he hasn't given any more debuts than Man City and Trix responded 'Southampton?' And I mentioned what you said, he didn't give any debuts to Soton players. I don't know much about his past apart from what I heard so rely on others.

 

[bat-chain]

I think he gave full premier league debuts to Harrison Reed and Sam Gallagher. Just as a point of note.

Neither seem to have really kicked on either or anyone else in the Saints academy, they certainly seem to be getting less of a chance under Koeman.

 

[nightgoat]

I know its not fashionable to question Poch in this regard but what young players want to see is they will be given a chance.

Pellegrini gave Marco Lopes a couple of games a couple of seasons ago.

And this year Iheanacho, Robert's and George Evans, either in the PL or Cups. I know 2 were PL.

In comparison Posh gave Winks and Onomah 20mins each last season and has only given Winks mins this year only in the EL but he has introduced Mason who has kept a consistent place.

You could argue he also gave chances to Alli though he was bought after 2 seasons of league football.

My point isn't against Poch but for Edwards there isn't much difference between the two when it comes to giving chances atm we can't predict if Poch will do more in the future but this season Pellegrini seems willing

Also City pay significantly more and also play in UEFA youth CL which may be alluring.

Likewise Man City spent £10m on Roberts after he'd had a season in the Championship.

 

[Trix]

It's neither here nor there imo which manager gave débuts to which players. What matters is that MP is renown for backing young players and often at the expense of senior pro's. It's clear that to MP if they are good enough then they are old enough, and we have to hope Edwards sees this and commits with us.

 

[IGSpur]

Likewise Man City spent £10m on Roberts after he'd had a season in the Championship.

Was going to add that I'd compare Roberts to Alli, but Roberts was bought for 2m going to 10m dependent on appearances. Which if they ever end up having to pay 10m then it will end up being a bargain. His combined league minutes at Fulham totalled under 5 matches as well, so more of a 'risk' in signing him.

It's neither here nor there imo which manager gave débuts to which players. What matters is that MP is renown for backing young players and often at the expense of senior pro's. It's clear that to MP if they are good enough then they are old enough, and we have to hope Edwards sees this and commits with us.

My point about debuts is that at the end of the day that is what the young people from the academy will see, who gets chances. So if Man City are giving just as many chances to their young players as us, then they have that, and the money in their favour. What help is it to a young person making it into the senior game, if they don't get a chance because the manager is playing other young players debuted by other managers. It's great Bentaleb and Alli are being played, but then it says, for the time being, it is good being young and bought by Poch as you will get a chance, but it doesn't raise a lot of hope if you are already from the academy. They may as well come through another club, get in their first team, show potential, then get bought by us to stand a good chance.

Having a reputation deserved or not, is meaningless if it isn't displayed at the current club.

Anyway like I've said what happens at the end of the season will tell us the true story. In the meantime I'm just saying, don't assume that just because we get excited at seeing young players developed, that academy players do too. What they will care about, is if they will get a chance to show their worth, and the best indication of that is how many academy players are introduced, and so far this season Man City are doing no worse than us at giving relative unknowns chances. And when that is our selling point to our current players to convince them to stay and not young players we are trying to sign then that is important. What happens to Onomah and Winks will have a bigger impact on our current and future academy players than what happens to Alli or Bentaleb under our current manager. What happens to any young player here will have a positive impact on any future young players we try to sign, but that's not what we're discussing

 

[Trix]

Was going to add that I'd compare Roberts to Alli, but Roberts was bought for 2m going to 10m dependent on appearances. Which if they ever end up having to pay 10m then it will end up being a bargain. His combined league minutes at Fulham totalled under 5 matches as well, so more of a 'risk' in signing him.



My point about debuts is that at the end of the day that is what the young people from the academy will see, who gets chances. So if Man City are giving just as many chances to their young players as us, then they have that, and the money in their favour. What help is it to a young person making it into the senior game, if they don't get a chance because the manager is playing other young players debuted by other managers. It's great Bentaleb and Alli are being played, but then it says, for the time being, it is good being young and bought by Poch as you will get a chance, but it doesn't raise a lot of hope if you are already from the academy. They may as well come through another club, get in their first team, show potential, then get bought by us to stand a good chance.

Having a reputation deserved or not, is meaningless if it isn't displayed at the current club.

Anyway like I've said what happens at the end of the season will tell us the true story. In the meantime I'm just saying, don't assume that just because we get excited at seeing young players developed, that academy players do too. What they will care about, is if they will get a chance to show their worth, and the best indication of that is how many academy players are introduced, and so far this season Man City are doing no worse than us at giving relative unknowns chances. And when that is our selling point to our current players to convince them to stay and not young players we are trying to sign then that is important. What happens to Onomah and Winks will have a bigger impact on our current and future academy players than what happens to Alli or Bentaleb under our current manager. What happens to any young player here will have a positive impact on any future young players we try to sign, but that's not what we're discussing

If they have any sort of intelligence they will know that many players often receive débuts at top sides and then fade into obscurity. You only have to look at some of the young talented English players that have moved to both Chelsea and City over the last few years whose career's have then gone into reverse. You don't have to be a genius to understand you have more chance of making it at a club that can't just buy the best players available in every position. I have no idea how Pelligrinni acts regarding City's youth set up, but as I am sure you are fully aware, Poch makes a big deal of watching the academy at all levels in both matches and training, and the kids will know that too.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Was going to add that I'd compare Roberts to Alli, but Roberts was bought for 2m going to 10m dependent on appearances. Which if they ever end up having to pay 10m then it will end up being a bargain. His combined league minutes at Fulham totalled under 5 matches as well, so more of a 'risk' in signing him.



My point about debuts is that at the end of the day that is what the young people from the academy will see, who gets chances. So if Man City are giving just as many chances to their young players as us, then they have that, and the money in their favour. What help is it to a young person making it into the senior game, if they don't get a chance because the manager is playing other young players debuted by other managers. It's great Bentaleb and Alli are being played, but then it says, for the time being, it is good being young and bought by Poch as you will get a chance, but it doesn't raise a lot of hope if you are already from the academy. They may as well come through another club, get in their first team, show potential, then get bought by us to stand a good chance.

Having a reputation deserved or not, is meaningless if it isn't displayed at the current club.

Anyway like I've said what happens at the end of the season will tell us the true story. In the meantime I'm just saying, don't assume that just because we get excited at seeing young players developed, that academy players do too. What they will care about, is if they will get a chance to show their worth, and the best indication of that is how many academy players are introduced, and so far this season Man City are doing no worse than us at giving relative unknowns chances. And when that is our selling point to our current players to convince them to stay and not young players we are trying to sign then that is important. What happens to Onomah and Winks will have a bigger impact on our current and future academy players than what happens to Alli or Bentaleb under our current manager. What happens to any young player here will have a positive impact on any future young players we try to sign, but that's not what we're discussing

I don't agree with a lot of this -

the onus is on the young players to prove themselves. At the moment the first team are doing reasonably well and have earned the opportunity. The team we have currently is well documented as being the youngest in the premier league so chances are arising but its not an immediate thing and nor should it be. Young players like Winks and Josh have both graduated to the first team squad and earned it by being the best performers last year but it doesn't guarantee them opportunities they need to continue their development and grasp them when they occur.

I am not sure that the selling point at Tottenham is connected to opportunities its more to do with the academy being particularly well run having excellent facilities and the football education being pretty strong. Of course all young boys want to graduate as
quickly as possible but very few are ready that early and its even more difficult in modern football. Personally I think there is a general togetherness across the club and that's driven by the squads being young but ambition remains a very personal thing and there isn't a lot of room for sentiment.

I think the boys do see Josh and Harry as benchmarks but there very positive benchmarks in that they have earned the right to be where they are. Currently in the youth and U21 sides the performances overall have been lacking and that has to be considered as players have no right to move forward especially not on reputation which sends a very contrary message to what is trying to be achieved

 

[spurs9]

I know its not fashionable to question Poch in this regard but what young players want to see is they will be given a chance.

Pellegrini gave Marco Lopes a couple of games a couple of seasons ago.

And this year Iheanacho, Robert's and George Evans, either in the PL or Cups. I know 2 were PL.

In comparison Posh gave Winks and Onomah 20mins each last season and has only given Winks mins this year only in the EL but he has introduced Mason who has kept a consistent place.

You could argue he also gave chances to Alli though he was bought after 2 seasons of league football.

My point isn't against Poch but for Edwards there isn't much difference between the two when it comes to giving chances atm we can't predict if Poch will do more in the future but this season Pellegrini seems willing

Also City pay significantly more and also play in UEFA youth CL which may be alluring.

Evans got 1 min the the league cup, Roberts has 4 mins in the league (when they were 4-1 down with 4 to go against us) and 35 in the league cup and Iheanacho has 23 mins in the league. That is a combined total of 27 mins in the PL and 36 mins in the league cup between those 3 players. Alli alone has 411 mins of PL, 180 in the EL and 15 in the league cup, Winks has 14 mins of EL and Carroll (not young, but still and academy player not broken into the side) has 24 PL, 90 EL and 90 LC.

You have to remember that unlike most teams, we have talented 22-24 year olds that (Mason, Carroll & Pritchard) weren't given a chance under previous managers, so we have to see what they are capable of and once we know that, they will either take the place of a more senior squad member (if they fit better) or will be moved on and the likes of Winks, Onomah and Oduwa will be given a go.

Edwards should be looking at the amount of time given to other players by other managers, as a lot of the time, it's token mins here and there, where as Poch seems to play them more consistently, regardless of age or even academy, just look at Dier, Alli, Bentaleb, Mason & Kane.

 

[IGSpur]

If they have any sort of intelligence they will know that many players often receive débuts at top sides and then fade into obscurity. You only have to look at some of the young talented English players that have moved to both Chelsea and City over the last few years whose career's have then gone into reverse. You don't have to be a genius to understand you have more chance of making it at a club that can't just buy the best players available in every position. I have no idea how Pelligrinni acts regarding City's youth set up, but as I am sure you are fully aware, Poch makes a big deal of watching the academy at all levels in both matches and training, and the kids will know that too.

I agree with a lot of this, and I too would have said before this season why would you choose City if not for the money, and while one swallkow does not a summer make, I woulnd't be so sure after this season. Sheikh Mansour is very serious about his academy and wants to see a return on it. This summer everyone reported how old City's squad was and not only that how they were lacking so many homegrown players. People expected to buy themselves out of it, but only really bought Sterling I believe. Instead they have made up the rest of it using homegrown/academy players. While like i said it's too early to see if they carry on they fact that he now seems to be giving chances as many or more to 'new' players than Poch isn't to be scoffed at.

the onus is on the young players to prove themselves. At the moment the first team are doing reasonably well and have earned the opportunity. The team we have currently is well documented as being the youngest in the premier league so chances are arising but its not an immediate thing and nor should it be. Young players like Winks and Josh have both graduated to the first team squad and earned it by being the best performers last year but it doesn't guarantee them opportunities they need to continue their development and grasp them when they occur.

I haven't said that they deserve to start ahead of other players, and I slightly disagree about the onus being on the young player. I liken ot to getting a job interview, where they say 'you need experience' but then wonder how can you get experience without ever being given it. Also I don't think that a player has to perform badly for a young player to be given a chance, some players get by putting in average performances and never deserve to get dropped but you could have a young person that could come in and put in great performances. Lastly, you can have a young player and experienced player performing as well as each other in training, but the experienced player isn't doing it on the pitch. How can the young player ever oust the experienced player when they are training as hard as each other. Didn't mean to get into this sepcific debate btw.

What I was specifically discussing was the seemingly foregone conclusion that atm Edwards (or any other young player) would only go to Cty for the money but he would stay for footballing reasons. The young team doesn't mean anything to an academy player.
Like you said Winks and Josh were the best performers, so how can they grab opportunities if they don't occur? (again I am not saying they should get them right now, just discussing the comparison with City) If Edwards or whoever sees our best and brightest prospects barely getting chances why would he stick around?

I am not sure that the selling point at Tottenham is connected to opportunities its more to do with the academy being particularly well run having excellent facilities and the football education being pretty strong. Of course all young boys want to graduate as
quickly as possible but very few are ready that early and its even more difficult in modern football. Personally I think there is a general togetherness across the club and that's driven by the squads being young but ambition remains a very personal thing and there isn't a lot of room for sentiment.

I'm not sure about that, I think it is very much mainly to do with the opportunities, but the impressive academy helps. but do you know what? If you are right and they come to use fro our football educations and excellent facilities, do you know which English side has a better training complex and arguably academy set up than us? Yes City's EDS. So they have the money, same or better facilities and atm are giving the same opportunities

Re: 2nd bit of your paragraph we need to change that mentality that they're not ready I believe if the league and the nation are to improve. Hope you're right about togetherness. Don't know why that is relevant though as Chelsea's academy have great togetherness and Lord knows their chances are slim.

I think the boys do see Josh and Harry as benchmarks but there very positive benchmarks in that they have earned the right to be where they are. Currently in the youth and U21 sides the performances overall have been lacking and that has to be considered as players have no right to move forward especially not on reputation which sends a very contrary message to what is trying to be achieved

As above if these guys are the benchmarks and still struggle to find time towards the end of the season what will it say to Edwards. Winks and Onomah have barely played for our youth anyway, and the youth performances have struggled this season for various reasons, u21s, not least because they've missed their best players. Oduwa, Ogilvie, Onomah, Winks and Miller. Plus currently have two 17 year olds at CB. But that's for another debate

 

[spurs9]

I guess they're different situations but while thought he gave youngsters a chance I was informed by @Dharmabum that this was not the case so again it doesn't matter. Like I said there is a big difference between continuing to give youngsters a chance and providing it. The former involves significantly less real as they would have already proven themselves in some respect. The latter takes a lot of guts and is what youngsters want to see.

There may be various reasons why chances aren't given but when that's all we have to sell to our young players and it's nor shown they won't care.

Other clubs cab also sell money

Thanks for twisting my words.
What I said was that, at Soton, he did not give debut to any Soton players but he gave plenty of chance to youngsters who was already "introduced". It was you who claimed that he "introduced" many players at Soton and I refuted that
I clearly stated that I had no idea what happened at Espanyol for then to post an article where it said he gave debuts to plenty of youngesters.

It's not true anyway. Poch gave debuts to Sam Gallagher, Omar Rowe, Jake Sinclair, Sam McQueen & Harrison Reed (possibly more than just those too).

Chambers had only been given 6 mins in a LC game prior to Poch playing him.