Martin Jol - Speaks Out !

[DoublePivot]

I am becoming more and more impressed with last year's 5th place finish. It's basically the same team as this year, without the steadying influence of Woody and he dragged that squad to 5th. There is no way if flipping hell, that squad was worthy of 5th. It had the same Championship midfield we have now, Robbo was just as shakey, Dawson was our senior defender and yet he managed a feat that is now becoming increasing mind-boggling. Berba and Keano's form at the end of the season, didn't hurt though

 

[eddiebailey]

I am becoming more and more impressed with last year's 5th place finish. It's basically the same team as this year, without the steadying influence of Woody and he dragged that squad to 5th. There is no way if flipping hell, that squad was worthy of 5th. It had the same Championship midfield we have now, Robbo was just as shakey, Dawson was our senior defender and yet he managed a feat that is now becoming increasing mind-boggling. Berba and Keano's form at the end of the season, didn't hurt though

Indeed, subsequent events have shown we overachieved, which to be honest was kind of my feeling at the time. Apart from the strikers, the other big factors behind our run in were having Leds back for the final matches, and dare I say it, Martin Jol's much criticised fitness regime - we finished the season looking much sharper than the teams around us.

 

[Coyboy]

I REALLY miss BMJ! I know people always say there's no point, but he was such a great Manager, Ramos still doesn't do his own interviews and so I still don't feel like I can get any real feeling about the guy.

Jol loved Spurs, that much was obvious - it was more than a job to him. It's nice that BMJ still loves the fans, and I do genuinely hope that one day he will come back to the club as a top manager, and take us to greater places - people forget how much he did for our team!! We sat in 4th place for a VERY long time under Jol and we really started joining places.

Also, you don't see people posting about how much they want a Ramos hug!! ;-)

I love Martin Jol, Martin Jol loves me :dance:

Defo, he is missed by 99% of us.

 

[DC_Boy]

yep, like amost every spurs supporter 'I liked Martin Jol'

can't vouch for whetehr ke liked me

BUT the board did the right thing in sacking him, and unlike many I don't think they could have done it pre-season, prety much when they did it was the first feasible and logical time - could have been a month earlier - but hey - who knows what the situ was with JR - not me anyway

JR has won a trophy - Jol diidn't - therefore to me so far anyway JR is an undoubted improvement

people often talk about the 3-3 last season at CFC and Jol getting that wrong - I don't think he did - I think injuries did for him in that game and the CC semi v AFC

however I do think he screwed up in the CC qtr final v pool of the night of the famous Fredi handball

he should have picked our strongest team - he didn't - he rested a couple (Defoe & Mendes from memory) - it was a massive mistake IMHO

oh and re atmosphere - I suspect the 5-1 atmosphere was the best since the Hodd 5-1 v CFC

but yep the fans did like MJ - which is good

 

[Kendall]

McClaren also won the Carling Cup

winning that trophy doesn't make Juande the better manager.

He still has a lot to prove. he needs to get us close to the consistency we had under Jol first before people can say outright that he's better, imo.

 

[Chris12345]

however I do think he screwed up in the CC qtr final v pool of the night of the famous Fredi handball

Was that Jol?!?!!

I'm sure that was pre-Jol?!

Or am I talking crap?

 

[Coyboy]

yep, like amost every spurs supporter 'I liked Martin Jol'

can't vouch for whetehr ke liked me

BUT the board did the right thing in sacking him, and unlike many I don't think they could have done it pre-season, prety much when they did it was the first feasible and logical time - could have been a month earlier - but hey - who knows what the situ was with JR - not me anyway

JR has won a trophy - Jol diidn't - therefore to me so far anyway JR is an undoubted improvement

people often talk about the 3-3 last season at CFC and Jol getting that wrong - I don't think he did - I think injuries did for him in that game and the CC semi v AFC

however I do think he screwed up in the CC qtr final v pool of the night of the famous Fredi handball

he should have picked our strongest team - he didn't - he rested a couple (Defoe & Mendes from memory) - it was a massive mistake IMHO

oh and re atmosphere - I suspect the 5-1 atmosphere was the best since the Hodd 5-1 v CFC

but yep the fans did like MJ - which is good

I won't delve into the cup v league debate again but you have to admit that the way in which the club dealt with the whole affair was shameful. The problem I have and still have as this board seems unable to stick with a manger through bad times, it happened with Hoddle too.

There were games in the cup and in the league where we didn't get the result we should have but not all, in fact very few were Jol's mistakes. The CC quarter final against Liverpool was only a couple of months into his tenure and it was unfortunate but what he did thereafter was more or less magnificent in the league- he achieved consistency.

No one was not delirious when we beat Arsenal and Chelsea but by the same token no one was not fuming with recent performances for which Ramos must take responsibility. I am not one for conspiracy theories at all (all this JFK/9/11 and Diana rumour is ridiculous) but I do believe sincerely that the board wanted Jol out in the summer when his relationship with Comolli became untenable and when results disappointed they were very quick to seek a replacement and even more scandalously make little secret of it.

That Jol carried on with grace and dignity merits our respect and admiration and until the man that the board so unscrupulously recruited outshines Jol on a consistent, sustainable basis, they (the board) will still have a lot to answer for.

 

[stickyfinger]

Also, you don't see people posting about how much they want a Ramos hug!! ;-)

Indeed, no man on this board has offered himself to Juande as a prize yet either

Gus is the charm now, I guess.

BMJ, the kind of class that is permanent. For the good times :beer:

 

[stickyfinger]

McClaren also won the Carling Cup

winning that trophy doesn't make Juande the better manager.

Yeah, I was wondering about this too .. if Redknapp wins the FA cup, would it be fair to say he would have been an improvement too? Or whoever the hell manages Cardiff, if they pick it up .. hmm

 

[DC_Boy]

McClaren also won the Carling Cup

winning that trophy doesn't make Juande the better manager.
.

Hi Kendall, yes it does in my eyes - we've had this debate so many times - I rate the CC a lot higher than you do

and yes McClaren won the CC and got Boro to the UEFA final - which is why until we beeat CFC I rated their last 10 years as better than ours

 

[Kendall]

Yea that as maybe but it doesn't necessarily take a good manager to win a cup, but it does take a good manager to get a team playing consistently - that's my point.

 

[DC_Boy]

Was that Jol?!?!!

I'm sure that was pre-Jol?!

Or am I talking crap?

Hi chris I'm going from memory - but where Spurs is concerned I have an excellent memory - I vividly remember Jol going right into one over FK's handball and penalty miss

may be wrong of course

 

[Chris12345]

Hmmm... I think every one of our fans went crazy at Freddi over that... I remember it well too... I was playing footy at the time, came home and watched the highlights with a Liverpool mate... had a tenner on the match... gaaaaahhhh

I'm sure it was Santini tho? Infact? Wait? No maybe it was Jol... I'm confused

 

[Kendall]

It was Jol

 

[Coyboy]

It was December 2004, Jol took over October 2004.

 

[DC_Boy]

Hi CB - without doubt the whole affair was handled badly-

and you may be right about the yor suspicions re the board's motvies

I purposely kept a very low profile on the whole shenanigans at the time - becuse I know no more than the avergae Spurs fan about what went on - it was clear from these and other boards that all sorts of information and disinformation was being leaked/shouted from the inner sanctums

One day the truth may emerge, somewha battered but hopefully intact, then again it might not

to this day who really knows what went on twixt Sugar Veneables and the other key parties - not me

yes it is harsh to blame Jol for the pool defeat

but I so vividly remmeber here was a chance of glory - a full house v 'pool reserves' - MJ had already spoken of his intentions to honour the competition and the fans who'd turned up in force - then he did a 'mini-Benitez'

he's the manager, it's his call - but when it blows up in your face, then it gets all horrible - not only did we lose but Jol's forthright views on FK (doubtless caused in part by frustration at himself) probably did severe/irreparable damage to their relationship

but to stress ' I like Martin Jol' and wish him all the best

 

[DC_Boy]

Yea that as maybe but it doesn't necessarily take a good manager to win a cup, but it does take a good manager to get a team playing consistently - that's my point.

fair point Kendall - but who's the second most revered manager in Spurs history - probably Burkinshaw, he's certainly one of the most revered, - but his was a reputation based mainly on the cups he won, and the finals and semi finals he also reached

if we look at Redknapp now - for years whenever people have praised him I've always thought 'fine, but what's he won?' - howevver if he wins the Cup to me his reputation is transformed

and please also let's remember the lge position we were in when Jol left - it sure weren't top six-

ok blame the board if you like - but whoever was at fault it sure ain't JR for not getting top 6 this season

 

[N10toN17]

Re the atmosphere, yes it was magnificent against the scummers in the 5 - 1 tonking, but week in week out there has been a significant downturn in atmosphere and I aint missed a game and have noticed it. !!!!

We're finding it hard to sing to Juande like we did for Jol, I don't know why, but once he starts doing interviews etc and we get too see him more maybe it'll improve.

 

[Bulletspur]

He delivered two fifth places finishes in a row. A dodgy lasagna away from the Champions League.

Get over it already. I am sure others will agree with me that we should have sown up the 4th spot as were there since I think months before the end of the season. It was in our hands to sew it long before this fateful game but we blew it. We were just not then and up to now have never been a 4th position club. I dont know what the future holds but we were where we deserved.

 

[hybridsoldier]

Jol was a grteat bloke, good laugh and did very well in his role, he built the foundations - but Juande won us a cup and had the team relly playing with some passion for a brief time before we won the carling cup.

I take Juande, because he actually won something, but ill always love MJ