Martin Tyler urged to retire after 'racist' comment about Son Heung-min

[cabinfever]

Depends if he was doing the Father Ted thing, with a lampshade and the eyes, while he said it...

"I hear you're a racist now Martin. Is that Sky Sports official line? Only between watching the football and having a cup of tea at halftime, I'm not sure I can squeeze it in."

Ah, Fr Ted is it? Racist about the Irish now??

 

[Dougal]

Ah, Fr Ted is it? Racist about the Irish now??

Better fecking not be.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Ah, Fr Ted is it? Racist about the Irish now??

 

[Locotoro]

So if that other player was from a major rugby playing nation would that be racist as well? Stereotyping all players from nations that play rugby a lot into one bucket of rugby tacklers?

It wasnt me that called him out nor was it me that made the comment.

I was replying to the question that was posed by the previous poster

 

[cabinfever]

Well obviously it WAS meant humorously.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I dunno if it was intended to be racist, I don't presume to know the intent behind anything that's not clearly intended to offend.

Seems thats very popular now though, deciding the intent behind other people's words.

If someone says something offensive out of ignorance then challenge it but don't immediately start at "appalled" and demand they be flogged - point it out, explain how it could be offensive, or that it offended you, they may apologise and thank you for pointing it out but... Yeah, outrage and demands of punishment are en vogue so let's not educate, let's just decide we know the facts and scream about it.

He's either a crazed racist or he said it without much thought or malice... Or... And I dunno, I'm no martial artist, it genuinely looked like a karate kick or something and he drew that comparison.

No idea.

You've just highlighted one of the reasons that this stands out as potential covert racism (whether intended or not):
Tyler could easily have drawn a comparison to martial arts when Jota kicked Skipp in the head. It did look somewhat like a karate kick.
Or when a Liverpool defender had their arms around Richarlison for our penalty appeal. That was at least as "martial arts" as what Son did.
Or on the occasion that he likened a Liverpool player's shirt pull to a rugby tackle. That was very similar to Son's foul.
But that comparison only came out of his mouth when the one East Asian player on the pitch fouled someone in a way that had very little similarity to any martial arts move that I've ever seen. At best, it was unconscious stereotyping.

I'm not suggesting he should be sacked (it's hardly comparable to the Ron Atkinson incident), but I do think his employer should ask him to publicly acknowledge that his choice of words was unfortunate and apologise before he's next on air commentating.

 

[Dougal]

You've just highlighted one of the reasons that this stands out as potential covert racism (whether intended or not):
Tyler could easily have drawn a comparison to martial arts when Jota kicked Skipp in the head. It did look somewhat like a karate kick.
Or when a Liverpool defender had their arms around Richarlison for our penalty appeal. That was at least as "martial arts" as what Son did.
Or on the occasion that he likened a Liverpool player's shirt pull to a rugby tackle. That was very similar to Son's foul.
But that comparison only came out of his mouth when the one East Asian player on the pitch fouled someone in a way that had very little similarity to any martial arts move that I've ever seen. At best, it was unconscious stereotyping.

I'm not suggesting he should be sacked (it's hardly comparable to the Ron Atkinson incident), but I do think his employer should ask him to publicly acknowledge that his choice of words was unfortunate and apologise before he's next on air commentating.

It’s 2023. This is pretty much the answer expected from everyone now.

Apart from the people at work who shout potato at me in a high pitched voice. Apparently that’s fine. Bastards!

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

It is an interesting moment we live in where people trying to cost others their livelihood see themselves on the side of good.

Agreed that it’s not good when people try to make others lose their jobs for petty ignorance.

Neither is it good when people refuse to acknowledge that it’s not right to stereotype people according to where they were born, or the colour of their skin, or any other irrelevance.

Tyler shouldn’t lose his job over it. But it was stupid, and it’s fair to talk about that, isn’t it?

 

[wrd]

Agreed that it’s not good when people try to make others lose their jobs for petty ignorance.

Neither is it good when people refuse to acknowledge that it’s not right to stereotype people according to where they were born, or the colour of their skin, or any other irrelevance.

Tyler shouldn’t lose his job over it. But it was stupid, and it’s fair to talk about that, isn’t it?

I think any conversation is worth having if it leads to people better understanding eachother but I feel your post has the insinuation that I've done the things your post entails or suggested it shouldn't be spoke about when I don't think I have and that my post was well placed when the thread was based on "urged to retire". So I'd be keen for clarity on whether I'm mistaken on that insinuation.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

You've just highlighted one of the reasons that this stands out as potential covert racism (whether intended or not):
Tyler could easily have drawn a comparison to martial arts when Jota kicked Skipp in the head. It did look somewhat like a karate kick.
Or when a Liverpool defender had their arms around Richarlison for our penalty appeal. That was at least as "martial arts" as what Son did.
Or on the occasion that he likened a Liverpool player's shirt pull to a rugby tackle. That was very similar to Son's foul.
But that comparison only came out of his mouth when the one East Asian player on the pitch fouled someone in a way that had very little similarity to any martial arts move that I've ever seen. At best, it was unconscious stereotyping.

I'm not suggesting he should be sacked (it's hardly comparable to the Ron Atkinson incident), but I do think his employer should ask him to publicly acknowledge that his choice of words was unfortunate and apologise before he's next on air commentating.

Just feels like wasting so much outrage over what was almost certainly a spur of the moment, badly chosen remark cheapens any efforts to challenge actual racism, and the same goes for all kinds of bigotry.

Challenge it, yes, point out the error and they might thank you, be educated and a better person for it, but you can't un-punish someone. Save that energy for the likes of Braverman or that prick who got found out for his pizza boxes, or Trump - hostile racists, misogynists, xenophobics who use their platforms to promote that with a purpose.

Going after a commentator for one word just seems like a huge over-reaction to something when we've not even established if there was any intended malice or if he's just an idiot.

I'm banking on it being the latter and he'll feel as bad for upsetting Son as anyone normal would.

 

[worcestersauce]

Martin Tyler is starting to remind me of Jimmy Hill. When I first started watching football in the nineties, everyone thought Jimmy Hill was a waffling doddery old git too. You even had comedies like the Fast Show parodying him “Small boys in the park, jumpers for goal posts, isn’t it? wasn’t it? Ahhhh.”
Like Jimmy, Tyler clearly adores football, that much comes through in his waffling. He’s just a boring out of date commentator. Anyway, Jimmy got poached from the BBC by Sky and he started hosting a late night show where he got to gossip and waffle with other sport journalists. This eventually became Sunday Supplement which sky got rid of during Covid.
If I were Sky, I’d bring it back, move Tyler there and let him gossip about all the transfer ins and outs, all the little dramas he likes to waffle on about during comms. He’d be great at it, just like Jimmy Hill was.

Last night commentary was levels above what him and Neville offered on Sunday, a woman (shock horror) I didn’t catch her name, and Alan Smith. It was concise, direct, and they spoke about what was happening in the game not what has been happening in the board room or who Pickford should play for if Everton go down. That’s what it should be like every game.

Not taking anything away from your point on this serious matter Tucker but the small boys jumpers for goalposts, Paul Whitehouse in the fast show wasn't about Jimmy Hill it was Alec Stock famously of Yeovil town. It was really good though

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

I think any conversation is worth having if it leads to people better understanding eachother but I feel your post has the insinuation that I've done the things your post entails or suggested it shouldn't be spoke about when I don't think I have and that my post was well placed when the thread was based on "urged to retire". So I'd be keen for clarity on whether I'm mistaken on that insinuation

Yes, you’re mistaken. I try to say what I mean directly, without insinuation.

 

[Tucker]

Not taking anything away from your point on this serious matter Tucker but the small boys jumpers for goalposts, Paul Whitehouse in the fast show wasn't about Jimmy Hill it was Alec Stock famously of Yeovil town. It was really good though

Oh I always though it was Jimmy. Was a great character though.

 

[wrd]

Yes, you’re mistaken. I try to say what I mean directly, without insinuation.

So why did you feel the need to attach it to what I had written?

 

[worcestersauce]

Oh I always though it was Jimmy. Was a great character though.

Brilliant, Ron Manager, after reading your post I youtubed it

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

So why did you feel the need to attach it to what I had written?

It seemed pertinent to the thread, and your comment was the most recent at the time I was here.

I'm sorry if you're unhappy with that.

 

[Timbo Tottenham]

I don’t think anyone in here has been outraged, nor called for Tyler’s head (for this anyway), it’s been fairly level headed and reasoned…

Apart from those outraged at the non-existent outrage and calling out the ‘woke-brigade’ (whatever that is), which IMO is a bigger barrier to discussing these topics.

I wish people could act like grown ups, although I’m on the Internet, so I know I’m asking a lot. But it’s the very reason I CBA with social media as balanced discussion and grey areas no longer exist, everything is black or white, the best or the worst etc.

 

[dontcallme]

I don’t think anyone in here has been outraged, nor called for Tyler’s head (for this anyway), it’s been fairly level headed and reasoned…

Apart from those outraged at the non-existent outrage and calling out the ‘woke-brigade’ (whatever that is), which IMO is a bigger barrier to discussing these topics.

I wish people could act like grown ups, although I’m on the Internet, so I know I’m asking a lot. But it’s the very reason I CBA with social media as balanced discussion and grey areas no longer exist, everything is black or white, the best or the worst etc.

Whenever there are posts talking about other people being offended, outraged or woke, it's guaranteed there are no such posts.

 

[onthetwo]

Its a showdown - Agesists v. Racsists!

 

[bobby soldier]

I remember about 5 or 6 years ago Son fouled a liverpool player, McManaman on comms made this ridiculous 'HAASAAAW' sound effect on the slo mo replay.
Similarly in Ndombeles 2nd game away at City, Jamie Redknapp described ndombele and sissoko as providers of the power and running to supplement Eriksens guile.
Souness also made a 'hes latin' comment against Lamela for his involvement in a Martial red too.
I doubt anything will come of this but if broadcasters are trying be more diverse in their product there does need to be an awareness of how these comments could be perceived.

Wow reading this thread makes me depressed. I'm currently in Africa having come from the Caribbean and I'm a white briton married to a Brazilian who has black, Portuguese, native and god knows what else in her ancestry. I'm friends with over 20 nationalties and fully aware that prejudice is real but if that comment offends people then we're in a bad place as a society. What happened to treating people as, i don't know, simply people?