Match Ratings vs Qarabag

[gregga]

I thought we were an absolute mess to be honest considering the quality of the opposition.

Carroll, whilst tidy on the ball, was practically a ghost in terms of any defensive work and Dier provided very little in the way of defensive cover (which is supposed to be his job).

Trippier looked okay going forwards but conceded a silly penalty, and Rose had a 'pre-Sunderland' sort of game.

Wimmer and Toby looked okay, particularly considering they were given very little in the way of cover from in front or by the full backs.

Townsend started okay but then faded, and Alli, whilst very good in patches, looks like a bit of a luxury player at present. He needs to develop his all round game to allow him to do more than just the odd bit of brilliance (although I really do think he can turn into a star).

Son took his goals well and generally looked a threat. Will be interesting to see where we play him against Palace.

Which brings us finally to everyone's favourite topic of conversation....Lamela. He scored a goal, he created chances, and yet there were large periods of the game where he just looked utter rubbish. He literally never seems to be mediocre. He's either brilliant or terrible, and it's incredibly frustrating. I think someone needs to tell him to just never try and take people on. It's as if once he's taken more than 2 touches his brain just implodes. He's also not a wide player at all. In the first half, when he was largely awful, he was offering nothing from the wide position, but when he gets inside he's clearly dangerous.

I'm just still not sure that the good things he offers outweigh the bad...but the fact that at least we're seeing some good bits now makes it more of a debate.

Sums it up perfectly for me.

How long is Poch going to persist with the idea he's a winger? He looked even worse on the left than he usually does on the right (which make sense seeing as he finds it hard to cut in from the left, being so one-footed).

 

[WiganSpur]

I think one of the most important things for me was that Son looked generally comfortable in the striker position.

He seems like he'd prove to be an able backup there if we can give him the service.

 

[sloth]

Another mess of game really. Defensively, as team, we were pretty woeful. I don't just think it was all about the fact that we had a completely new group of defenders either. This should have been the dream team for us, as they didn't just come and park a bus, they weren't robust or dirty, and didn't just huddle up their own end. And there were spaces and numerous opportunities to punish those gaps, but as ever, those opportunities rarely made it past the embryonic stage, as greed, poor technique and poor decisions invariably did for them.

Tom Carroll was probably the most consistent presence throughout the 90 minutes. Whilst Lamela, Alli and Son all deserve honourable mentions for their general contribution and the odd moments of individual inspiration and creativity, Carroll was just a consistent and constant presence, getting through 90 passes (Lamela next best non defender on 56) and generally trying to make progressive passes.

The whole group looked incohesive without the ball, for the second game running. Dier was terrible, unable to keep up when they were zipping the ball about and unable to offer anything with the ball of a progressive nature. Rose had an absolute stinker. Townsend had a good first half but was bad second half.

It was nice to see Kane actually press and harry (no pun) the defenders again, and one of these incidents resulted in him setting up Lamela, whose finish was sweet. I just wish we'd pressed them better throughout, because there was definitely chances to be had this way as they were that great combo of a flimsy but ball playing outfit. Like a defence of four Chiriches's.

Alli continues to be a bit of a puzzle to me. Clearly the boy has ability, and his set up for Son's second was a nice piece of play, but he also seems to lack a bit of urgency and dynamism at times and also runs into the odd dead end or miss-control. I can't really figure out what he is and where a long term future lies for him positionally. He's a bit of a Fellani.

I actually thought Lamela, overall, had a very decent game, saw shitloads of ball for an AM, set up a great chance, took his chance sweetly and generally was very involved. Of course there was a smattering of the usual erratic fumble shit and the odd technical glitch, the kid continues to be a fucking curates egg, but on balance a decent contribution over the 90.

Oh, and Son was very decent and scored a couple of foxy boxy goals. Both our back up strikers have now scored more goals than Kane. Perhaps the world won't end after all.

Trippier was a bit unlucky with the penalty, it was a pen, but one that was hard for him to avoid, after being nutmegged.

I can't be arsed to do individual stuff. Carroll just about my MOTM.

My god, you think Lamela's performance was roughly equivalent to Alli and Son's? That's obtuse even for you. Son was a breath of fresh air; the best player on the pitch for as long as he was on the pitch. Alli pushed him, and for his sheer stamina and guts to keep going he gets MoM. Lamela was everything that everyone says about him, the occasional flash of class, sometimes hard-working, and the rest of the time weak and dithery.

Thought Rose had a stinker, but I'll forgive him that for his lack of game time this season. Trippier also looked rusty, but he showed enough for me to be more convinced than ever that he should be starting ahead of Walker. Dier was frustrating, electing the long ball too often when Carrol was in the same position as him; just give it Tom, Eric - you may think you've got the range, but you're not as good as Carrol and you're not in the side for that. Townsend was poor. The other three ok to decent.

 

[Grapo2001]

I had a few stellas admittedly, but I thought Carroll wasn't great.

 

[millsey]

Sums it up perfectly for me.

How long is Poch going to persist with the idea he's a winger? He looked even worse on the left than he usually does on the right (which make sense seeing as he finds it hard to cut in from the left, being so one-footed).

He played a right wing fwrd for Roma which made us pay 25 million for him. If we are now just trying to find him a different position because he can't play that in the Prem let's sell and move on. He won't be better than Eriksen at no 10 and we won't see Prichard as back up either

 

[ralphs bald spot]

My god, you think Lamela's performance was roughly equivalent to Alli and Son's? That's obtuse even for you. Son was a breath of fresh air; the best player on the pitch for as long as he was on the pitch. Alli pushed him, and for his sheer stamina and guts to keep going he gets MoM. Lamela was everything that everyone says about him, the occasional flash of class, sometimes hard-working, and the rest of the time weak and dithery.

Thought Rose had a stinker, but I'll forgive him that for his lack of game time this season. Trippier also looked rusty, but he showed enough for me to be more convinced than ever that he should be starting ahead of Walker. Dier was frustrating, electing the long ball too often when Carrol was in the same position as him; just give it Tom, Eric - you may think you've got the range, but you're not as good as Carrol and you're not in the side for that. Townsend was poor. The other three ok to decent.

Tripper was awful I know he hasn't played but the penalty was a poor decision and some his marking was very poor to be honest he looked a little lost he clearly needs time but Walker is head and shoulders above him at the moment

 

[davidmatzdorf]

It's striking how many different, indeed drastically different ways people saw that game and specific players' contributions. Even more than usual.

Lloris - 6.5 - good all-round.

Trippier - 4.5 - not much to admire from either fullback last night - after conceding the penalty, his defensive play was broadly OK, but we saw very little in attack from him except for two good crosses and he struggled for pace a few times.

Alderweireld - 6 - the defence as a whole played as if they'd never played together before ... oh. Alderweireld didn't look quite so commanding without Vertonghen by him, although it's not as if Wimmer did anything wrong.

Wimmer - 6.5 - decent enough first run-out.

Rose - 4 - very out-of-sorts; a couple of great tackles and blocks, but some major brain-farts and positional mistakes as well; attacked rarely, but effectively.

Dier - 5 - gave the ball away far too many times.

Carroll - 6.5 - and it was usually Carroll who won it back; I'm surprised to see people criticising his defensive contribution; his passing could be wayward, but he won the ball countless times.

Townsend - 5.5 - subdued and a bit aimless; he is taking more defensive responsibility these days, but not wih any great effectiveness.

Alli - 8 - busy, effective, skilful and involved everywhere; he has a bit of needle about him and I expect that he will collect a lot of cards: pushing opponents at throw-ins, arguing, generally being full of himself; but he's looking like a huge bargain at £5m, as many have already observed. MotM.

Lamela - 6 - if ever a "6" were a deceptive rating, this is that time; as always, Erik worked hard, but in the first half, absolutely nothing he did worked; in the second half, he reduced the pointless dribbles, started to pass and move and got his reward; so that's 4 for the first half and 8 for the second half.

Son - 7.5 - how to announce yourself; also, how to respond to the people who insist that you can't play as a lone striker; fast, skilful, hard-working and effective; whenever we needed a presence in the box, Son was there.


Kane - 6.5 - gets an extra half-point for the ball-winning assist for the third goal.

N'jie - 6 - looked pretty classy, without ever really making a definitive mark on the match.

Winks - 7 - I think Winks looked really good - calm on the ball, positionally sound, tidy and efficient.

Overall, it was messy, open, entertaining, with plenty of good attacking play and about the same amount of sloppy play, especially in central midfield, where neither side could keep the ball reliably. The defence was a bit desperate, but this lot have never played a competitive match together before, so it's not surprising they had to rely on individual play rather than teamwork.

Qarabag were pretty decent on the ball - they did, after, beat Young Boys of Bern 4-0 on aggregate and I seem to recall that YB gave us something of a hard time a few years ago. And they only lost to Celtic 1-0. But their goalkeeper wanted shooting for not intercepting the corner for our first goal, it was way too easy for our midfielders to nick he ball off them and they were very open - too open - throughout the match. The scoreline was about right, given the balance of the match.

 

[Spurs 1961]

How did Clinton play? Or did he not have enough time to make an impact?

I thought he looked full of desire to play, seems to have a bit of fire in him making some aggressive runs. He could be, like Alli, the sort of proactive player we need. Also he has a good first touch. In truth he was not on for long but I want to see more of him

 

[Spurs 1961]

Well Trippier was as bad as could be, Rose though was his equal. Not getting too worried about this though as it looked to me that many players are match rusty. You can't just sling together a back four and expect them to be on the same page.

In midfield Carroll is not the player to be part of a two where you need energy and some defensive qualities. Still again he has played little.

Lamela's inconsistency is perhaps a lot to do with lack of competitive game time. He missed opportunities but the lad never hides. He wanted the ball, made some strong tackles and interceptions and tried so hard to make the team play. Those who are calling for him to be trusted and given an extended run are perhaps right.

Alli made some fine contributions and where Lamela and now Kane look almost panicky he seems to have time to pick the right pass/shot

Maybe give it so Son for being in the right place at the right time. Goals I think is our biggest problem and scoring two swings it for me

 

[stonecolddeanaustin]

The sort of thing you might not see watching the game on TV but I thought Alli's movement off the ball was superb. When we were in possession he'd constantly be looking to make a run or just simply find a bit of space. It may well have contributed to him being knackered after 65 mins but it was so refreshing to see compared to the usual when we'll have someone in possession dwelling on the ball asking team mates for a few options for a pass. No doubt we'll have drilled this out of him in a few months time but good to see right now.

 

[eddiev14]

Alli was superb, as everyone seems to be acknowledging. He has strength, enough pace and most importantly composure on the ball. I hope to see him cementing his place over the next few weeks.

The composure he showed for Son's 2nd was just unreal for a 19 year old.

 

[eddiev14]

Well Trippier was as bad as could be, Rose though was his equal. Not getting too worried about this though as it looked to me that many players are match rusty. You can't just sling together a back four and expect them to be on the same page.

I think that's a key point and the more they play the better it will get.

It's just annoying that the Captial One Cup run may only last one game due to being drawn against strong EPL opposition. It's normally a great competition for the second string (until the Quarters/Semis). Plus, I imagine that Poch will be told to play his strongest team vs the Goons. Levy will know that a win against that lot will deflect a lot of the negativity surrounding the club at the moment.

But I digress. The one thing I would say regarding last night's defensive performance was that Eric Dier did not shield them like he has been doing in the first few games.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

My god, you think Lamela's performance was roughly equivalent to Alli and Son's? That's obtuse even for you. Son was a breath of fresh air; the best player on the pitch for as long as he was on the pitch. Alli pushed him, and for his sheer stamina and guts to keep going he gets MoM. Lamela was everything that everyone says about him, the occasional flash of class, sometimes hard-working, and the rest of the time weak and dithery.

Thought Rose had a stinker, but I'll forgive him that for his lack of game time this season. Trippier also looked rusty, but he showed enough for me to be more convinced than ever that he should be starting ahead of Walker. Dier was frustrating, electing the long ball too often when Carrol was in the same position as him; just give it Tom, Eric - you may think you've got the range, but you're not as good as Carrol and you're not in the side for that. Townsend was poor. The other three ok to decent.

What did you see in Trippier's performance that leads you to suggest he should replace Walker ? Ignoring the penalty I thought he was pretty anonymous.

 

[talkshowhost86]

What did you see in Trippier's performance that leads you to suggest he should replace Walker ? Ignoring the penalty I thought he was pretty anonymous.

Other than the penalty I thought he looked more like a defender than Walker normally does.

And going forwards, I thought he got into some decent positions and was unlucky with a couple of crosses (as opposed to Walker being terrible at crosses).

He just looks far more like the right back we need to be honest, and although I can see why many would stick with Walker for now, I think Trippier is a better fit for out system.

 

[double0]

I have to hand it to Quarabg, they came to play football which in turn forced our own hand into playing a more open and direct sytle....it was a good game to watch.

Lloris 7 Nothing outstanding better with his distribution.

Trippier 5 Very silly boy to concede a penalty so early into debut showed a lack of game experience at this level.

Alderweireld 7 I like the way he defenses pretty solid no nonsense.

Wimmer 7 Excellent debut very solid and good pace, watch this space Vertonghen.

Rose 5 Poor defensively good enough going forward tho must improve on both.

Dier 6.5 Brought a calmness a reassurance to the midfield area some good long range passing that enabled us to turn and attack.

Carroll 6.5 Got on the ball well enough a few wayward passes aside did ok.

Lamela (7) 10/10 for his perseverance, he kept going even though the crowd were on his case because of his performance at time so frustrating. Well taken goal and some good interchangeable play in the 10 role.

Townsend 6.5 A much better second half good choices made with his passing. this might sound funny put I'd like him to shoot a bit more because regardless whats said he does have a good technique with both feet.

Alli 8 Very good. what I like about Alli is he isn't afraid to be offensive has that sheer raw youth in his play - gets the ball quickly under control his first action is to move forward with pace its wonderful to see and such a wise head too.

Son 8 Well taken goals, excellent movement and got involved with team play.

Subs
Kane 6.5 Pressed better and assist goal

N'jie 6 One sloppy pass aside came on looked lively.

Winks 6 Right into the engine room for one so young did well.

Pochettinho 7 Like his vision.

 

[longtimespur]

Enjoyed the game after the first 10 minutes. Credit to Qarabag for coming to WHL to win and not "to not lose".
They looked very accomplished on the ball with good movement and pace. A stern test for our make shift team.

Good : Alli, Son, Lamela (esp 2nd half), Carroll (except for too many stray passes) Lloris, Wimmer and Alderwerield

Average Trippier, Dier (who I thought was playing more CM than DM) and Townsend

Poor: Rose. Not just for his mistakes but more because of his lack of acknowledging them and apologisingfor them.

 

[fortworthspur]

Alli needs to grow his hair or something. Every time I see him I think of Jenas.

 

[Partizan]

that's it, if i ever get a daughter i'll be naming her Allison

 

[Partizan]

My god, you think Lamela's performance was roughly equivalent to Alli and Son's? That's obtuse even for you. Son was a breath of fresh air; the best player on the pitch for as long as he was on the pitch. Alli pushed him, and for his sheer stamina and guts to keep going he gets MoM. Lamela was everything that everyone says about him, the occasional flash of class, sometimes hard-working, and the rest of the time weak and dithery.

Thought Rose had a stinker, but I'll forgive him that for his lack of game time this season. Trippier also looked rusty, but he showed enough for me to be more convinced than ever that he should be starting ahead of Walker. Dier was frustrating, electing the long ball too often when Carrol was in the same position as him; just give it Tom, Eric - you may think you've got the range, but you're not as good as Carrol and you're not in the side for that. Townsend was poor. The other three ok to decent.

haha, when we signed alli BC let us know he wasnt impressed by him the one time he saw him play. expect to see him highlight his flaws at every opportunity and underrate every performance, using several ways for the remainder of his career

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Deli made 95% of his 41 passes, created 3 very good chances for us and generally tried to be our playmaker for the evening. It was a hugely impressive performance for someone of his age and stature in the game and others like Lamela should take heed of such performances in my opinion.

And @sloth

I'm not really getting what was so outrageous about what I said. Clearly both players contributed and I said so. Both created a great clear chance for Son, Lamela also scored a goal and was damn unlucky not to have two (or three of Carroll had played that pass a fraction quicker), Lamela did complete a lower percentage of his passes (82), but then attempted 30% more passes than Alli effectively seeing a lot more ball than Alli. Lamela 4 tackles Alli 3, Alli 3 interceptions, Lamela 1.

So both were heavily involved in team play (Lamela marginally more so), both created clean chances for others (if Alli created more than the goal I don't remember it but if he did then him marginally more so), Lamela scored and Alli didn't, marginally edged tackles and Alli marginally edged interceptions.

OF course Alli's age means you can caveat it with "especially for a 19yo". But as long as you are just judging the two purely on their merits, without taking age on board, and you are purely objective and don't Clive Allen tell you what's what, ignore the fact that Lamela has some irritating mannerisms, then both players contributed a pretty even amount overall to that game.

For the record, whoscored, using their purely non "human" bias had Lamela second highest overall rating at 8.15, Alli third at 8.04. This in no way backs up conclusively what I said after just using my eyes and managing to shut out the bollocks that Clive Allen was spouting all game, but does at least suggest my opinion was perhaps less obtuse than suggested.