Match Ratings vs Qarabag

[yusrisafri]

I just watched the recording of the match. Apart from those 2 very silly errors, Rose was quality. Yes those errors couldve cost the match but i still feel he is miles better than Davies in terms of contribution.


I think Son had a really fine match, better than Alli actually. The boy has got really superb acceleration and deft touches. We need to exploit this to the max.


Lamela was industrious throughout. But very wasteful in possession. Very difficult for Poch to decide if he should be played or not.


My MOM goes to Carroll for being a steady and calming influence in midfield. Nothing spectacular but always available throughout

 

[Dharmabum]

Alli my MoM.
Many of you on here forget that now a days, such games - which such a tight programe - are games that are meant for just 1 thing...to be won without too much effort and no injuries. The spectacular can be kept for the EPL and more "advanced" games in the Euro League.

 

[sloth]

What did you see in Trippier's performance that leads you to suggest he should replace Walker ? Ignoring the penalty I thought he was pretty anonymous.

Tripper was awful I know he hasn't played but the penalty was a poor decision and some his marking was very poor to be honest he looked a little lost he clearly needs time but Walker is head and shoulders above him at the moment

Not for me, but it's obviously just my opinion. I don't rate Walker very highly at all. I wish he'd kicked on, in fact I have had a running argument with @Bus-Conductor that he needed to be given a chance to develop, but I'm afraid for me, he just hasn't. I like him, I like his attitude, I like his determination, he's strong and athletic, and a decent RB, but in our system we need someone who can do something going forward whilst not making mistakes at the back. Walker has one or two brain farts every couple of games, he also gets himself in amazing positions going forward, but he's completely incapable of capitalising on them. My pulee rate doesn't get raised even a modicum when I see him haring to the byline, even if we've two in the middle and the FB can't get back, I know nothing will come of it. In short I know he'll fuck up the pass, or he'll wait and the FB will get back and he'll pass it back, and once again we'll be playing slow, methodical football in front of their defensive blocks.

Trippier on the other hand, I believe from his short cameos, won't fuck about, he'll back himself to put a decent ball in, and that's whether from in front of his full-back, Beckham style, or beyond him. This makes him hard to defend against. The knock on from this is that our players start making the runs into the box because they know that a ball will be played, often early, and often accurately. We are suddenly a threat from the FB position, which is key to Poch's desired system.

Specifically what I saw in this match, which is what you asked about, was not a great deal. Some rusty defending, a boy who grew in confidence, but particularly two quick balls into the box, one which was fantastic towards the end of the second half, and one first time volley which hit the defender in the first half. Glimpses nothing more, but in contrast with what I know Walker can('t) do, enough for me to see him as the future and want him the PL side now.

 

[double0]

We have in Lamela a very clever player who can see openings better than anyone in our team including Eriksen Kane Chadli Mason in that order.
He can be extremely frustrating with his second touch that seems to get away from him leading to him stretching also noticeably to me are some of areas in which he takes up tend to quickly become dead ends player around him ain't responding as quickly as hin imo he's thinking way ahead of some of the players around him.

Alli I'm still trying to work out however one things for sure without putting too much pressure on expectations, he is a insanely talented kid with a bright future, he has got the lot and the scary thing is he will get stronger quicker better in his already big frame which he doesn't quite yet have the power to maximise... like Bale before him.

 

[sloth]

And @sloth

I'm not really getting what was so outrageous about what I said. Clearly both players contributed and I said so. Both created a great clear chance for Son, Lamela also scored a goal and was damn unlucky not to have two (or three of Carroll had played that pass a fraction quicker), Lamela did complete a lower percentage of his passes (82), but then attempted 30% more passes than Alli effectively seeing a lot more ball than Alli. Lamela 4 tackles Alli 3, Alli 3 interceptions, Lamela 1.

So both were heavily involved in team play (Lamela marginally more so), both created clean chances for others (if Alli created more than the goal I don't remember it but if he did then him marginally more so), Lamela scored and Alli didn't, marginally edged tackles and Alli marginally edged interceptions.

OF course Alli's age means you can caveat it with "especially for a 19yo". But as long as you are just judging the two purely on their merits, without taking age on board, and you are purely objective and don't Clive Allen tell you what's what, ignore the fact that Lamela has some irritating mannerisms, then both players contributed a pretty even amount overall to that game.

For the record, whoscored, using their purely non "human" bias had Lamela second highest overall rating at 8.15, Alli third at 8.04. This in no way backs up conclusively what I said after just using my eyes and managing to shut out the bollocks that Clive Allen was spouting all game, but does at least suggest my opinion was perhaps less obtuse than suggested.

Watch it again if you can be arsed (http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/) Lamela was shit from start until around the sedond half when he improved to average and then the 80th minute when he played some good stuff. But in the first half he was really shit. Even in the second half he wasn't brilliant, at one point he even took a ball off Alli's toes when he was through on goal, and then fucked it up. First half when Son scored and was celebrating, look at Lamela's face, no pleasure on it, just a big frown, like 'why didn't you pass to me Dele?' Credit to Lamela for keeping going and he got his goal, but until the last ten minutes or so his over all was a 4, in the last ten it was a 7.5/8. Alli and Son were quality throughout, so there's no equivalence at all afaic.

Anyway watch it again, even on fast forward, and tell me I'm wrong about Lamela.

And before people going on about haters, I know they exist. On the other hand most of the heat in the debate comes not from what we all think of this or that player, but because we get wound up by the other person's one-eyedness. In other words the views get stronger because of the way we debate them, not because of the object of the debate itself.

 

[4shambles]

First half when Son scored and was celebrating, look at Lamela's face, no pleasure on it, just a big frown, like 'why didn't you pass to me Dele?'

Thanks for the insight doctor Freud, just a pity your analysis missed Lamela's celebratory fist-pump at the moment the ball hit the back of the net...

 

[Shadydan]

I don't think we've ever had a performance which has polarised so many opinions on this site.

 

[jezz]

Watch it again if you can be arsed (http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/) Lamela was shit from start until around the sedond half when he improved to average and then the 80th minute when he played some good stuff. But in the first half he was really shit. Even in the second half he wasn't brilliant, at one point he even took a ball off Alli's toes when he was through on goal, and then fucked it up. First half when Son scored and was celebrating, look at Lamela's face, no pleasure on it, just a big frown, like 'why didn't you pass to me Dele?' Credit to Lamela for keeping going and he got his goal, but until the last ten minutes or so his over all was a 4, in the last ten it was a 7.5/8. Alli and Son were quality throughout, so there's no equivalence at all afaic.

Anyway watch it again, even on fast forward, and tell me I'm wrong about Lamela.

And before people going on about haters, I know they exist. On the other hand most of the heat in the debate comes not from what we all think of this or that player, but because we get wound up by the other person's one-eyedness. In other words the views get stronger because of the way we debate them, not because of the object of the debate itself.

Rubbish, I've answered this bullshit statement in the Lamela thread.

WTF sloth, your usually a decent and level headed poster but shit?
I've just watched again thinking maybe I got it wrong about the second half.
I didn't nearly everything decent we did came from Lamela, the first ten minutes he put Son in and hit the post.
Won tackles and moved the ball well.
I dare any one to watch the second half again and come back and say he was shit.
First half he was shit and don't disagree with anyone who says that.

 

[Gilzeanking]

Not for me, but it's obviously just my opinion. I don't rate Walker very highly at all. I wish he'd kicked on, in fact I have had a running argument with @Bus-Conductor that he needed to be given a chance to develop, but I'm afraid for me, he just hasn't. .

General point about people 'kicking on' . Its remarkable how few do . Walker , Lennon, Townsend... ,Huddlestone, mebbe Lamela ( feverishly practising after training with his right foot d'ya reckon ?)...I'm sure people here can name many , many more .

Young guys suddenly hit with set-up-for-life amounts of money , mebbe they don't see the need to 'kick on' . ITK has suggested that Bentaleb's sudden loss of form was part of this syndrome .

Someone here mentioned how Alli , at 19 will 'kick on ' , we all hope so of course , but on the general evidence there must be an element of doubt about it once he gets the , set up for life treatment .

 

[alexis]

How did Clinton play? Or did he not have enough time to make an impact?

He made some good runs but just didn't get picked out enough. Showed promise but not enough time on the pitch

 

[Xeeleeyid]

General point about people 'kicking on' . Its remarkable how few do . Walker , Lennon, Townsend... ,Huddlestone, mebbe Lamela ( feverishly practising after training with his right foot d'ya reckon ?)...I'm sure people here can name many , many more .

Young guys suddenly hit with set-up-for-life amounts of money , mebbe they don't see the need to 'kick on' . ITK has suggested that Bentaleb's sudden loss of form was part of this syndrome .

Someone here mentioned how Alli , at 19 will 'kick on ' , we all hope so of course , but on the general evidence there must be an element of doubt about it once he gets the , set up for life treatment .

The really top players will be hungry and will develop regardless of money. See Bale as an example.

 

[eddiebailey]

Up until the we got our first goal we were dreadful and the points never looked safe until we got the third. Qarabag are not mugs, but a two goal margin at home to the weakest team in the group is the bare minimum that is acceptable.

I know we fielded an understrength team, but they were all internationals or U21 internationals; and while there were debutants out there, that is all the more reason for them to seize theirr chances. I was going to say that we need to be able to rotate without losing cohesion, but then I remembered that we don't have much cohesion anyway.

Lloris, 6 - dealt with what came his way
Trippier, 4 - not at a all good, but it was his debut and he is ring rusty. Needs to show a lot more to challenge the revived walker for his place
Rose, 3 - attacked with purpose, defended as if he had his mind on something else
Alderwerield, 5 - beginning to think that like Lovren before him, he was made to look good by Schniederlin playing ahead of him
Wimmer, 6 - cool, reassuring presence
Dier, 3 - this is what Les was talking about when he said that in the modern game you can't afford midfielders who do nothing but defend. You certainly should not need someone of that ilk against League One strength opposition. And he didn't even do much to protect his defence.
Carroll, 6 - put himself about and consistently looking to set runners free; it did not always come off, but it was refreshing to see
Townsend (adopted son), 6 - showed good technique and decision making, set up chances but needs to regain confidence in his shooting
Alli, 7 - MotM, will find it tougher against Premiership defenders, but you can only beat what is in front of you.
Lamela, 5 - did well to put his shocking first half performance behind him and turn it round in the second half, but over the 90 minutes that is the best score I can give him
Son, 6 - looked sharp and lively, but the lack of hold-up play contributed to our failure to impose ourselves on the game.

Kane - 6 shame he did not get his goal
N'jie - 5 what we were told to expect, fast, decent technique, but very raw in terms of decision making
Winks - 6 as you would expect perfectly capable against this level of opposition, should have been on from the start instead of the redundant Dier

 

[Bulletspur]

Ugh, there's always one isn't there.

No, I think that they both have stupid fucking tinted blonde Mohawks and that clintons remind me of Ballotelli as it looks equally ****ish. But thanks, thanks for trying to pick a fight based on assumptions about me, instead of just politely enquiring!

And thanks for clearing that up. Why didn't you say that in the first place? Oh by the way, there will always be one!

 

[TheVoiceofReason]

I was gonna disagree with your hallucinatory ratings, but then I saw this and it explained everything:

Townsend (adopted son), 6

 

[sloth]

Rubbish, I've answered this bullshit statement in the Lamela thread.

I didn't say he was shit in the second half. Or if I did, I recant it. I thought he was average until the 80th or so (played some good stuff, but also frustrating), and then good. Havinng admonished others to watch the game again though, I shall endeavour to do so myself. Sorry for being perhaps a bit too aggressive in my choice of words.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

General point about people 'kicking on' . Its remarkable how few do . Walker , Lennon, Townsend... ,Huddlestone, mebbe Lamela ( feverishly practising after training with his right foot d'ya reckon ?)...I'm sure people here can name many , many more .

Young guys suddenly hit with set-up-for-life amounts of money , mebbe they don't see the need to 'kick on' . ITK has suggested that Bentaleb's sudden loss of form was part of this syndrome .

Someone here mentioned how Alli , at 19 will 'kick on ' , we all hope so of course , but on the general evidence there must be an element of doubt about it once he gets the , set up for life treatment .

I don't necessarily think it's always about being "set up for life" GK. I think there's this assumption that every player who demonstrates ability as a teenager or 21yo has massive scope for development. The simple truth is, I think, that sometimes they don't have that scope or that scope which often demonstrates itself as a physical advantage (such as Walker or Lennon's pace or tall physically developed players) as young players is drastically limited by mental/cerebral limitations that mean their cognitive ability to develop is impeded or that physical advantage soon gets evened out as come up against the quality players or more intelligent players of the EPL.

 

[Gilzeanking]

The really top players will be hungry and will develop regardless of money. See Bale as an example.

Yeh , I was going to mention Bale as an example of a player really 'Kicking on ' in front of our eyes. There probably are plenty of other reasons for players not improving , but the 20 year old millionaires have every reason in a society like ours to believe they have 'made it' and this must be a factor in many of them believing they don't need to 'Kick on ' ...or at least reduces their hunger for improvement .

The money , the fawning women , the celebrity pictures in the newspaper/journos chasing them for quotes. High status/Admiration of friends and family etc , the over coddling by the club , the advent of 'Player Power' so managers are less likely now to berate them for underperforming . It must have an impact on their determination to better their performances imo.

Anyway , hopefully Alli will keep working on his game .

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Watch it again if you can be arsed (http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/) Lamela was shit from start until around the sedond half when he improved to average and then the 80th minute when he played some good stuff. But in the first half he was really shit. Even in the second half he wasn't brilliant, at one point he even took a ball off Alli's toes when he was through on goal, and then fucked it up. First half when Son scored and was celebrating, look at Lamela's face, no pleasure on it, just a big frown, like 'why didn't you pass to me Dele?' Credit to Lamela for keeping going and he got his goal, but until the last ten minutes or so his over all was a 4, in the last ten it was a 7.5/8. Alli and Son were quality throughout, so there's no equivalence at all afaic.

Anyway watch it again, even on fast forward, and tell me I'm wrong about Lamela.

And before people going on about haters, I know they exist. On the other hand most of the heat in the debate comes not from what we all think of this or that player, but because we get wound up by the other person's one-eyedness. In other words the views get stronger because of the way we debate them, not because of the object of the debate itself.

Sloth, I have actually pretty much watched it twice already. I watched it on the BT online service on my lap top live as Mrs BC wasn't feeling great and knowing I could watch it online said she could watch her program on the telly. The BT stream was fucked and kept breaking up with me having to re-load the page, so I started watching it again thinking I'd just watch the bits I'd missed but found myself watching the whole thing again pretty much.

You really are talking bollocks. "Took it off Alli's toes and fucked it up" - He chipped the keeper and ht the inside of the post FFS. When Alli was put clean through he fucked his up by putting it straight at the keeper.

As for the celebrating the goal thing, for his first goal he goes up and hugs him (27.28), second goal you see on the slow mo he does a little fist pump with his right hand. But these are really petty and irrelevant issues anyway.

You seem to be demonstrating one of the psychological bias flaws you are always admonishing the rest of us for. I told you three years ago what Walker was and what his limitations were. You were having none of it. Your words to me were something like "in three years time when he leaves this club for a glittering career with a top club you'll eat your words BC"

What I don't get is how in your post above you state how you have been tolerant of Walker because you liked his attitude, his energy but have become (finally after three years) aware he doesn't defend or produce moments of quality in attack.

Yet Lamela demonstrates the same attitude and energy, he always tries, never hides but, actually gets stuck in and, though he is erratic at times, he does actually frequently deliver quality and productive moments - yet you don't seem to want to show him the same tolerance you were happy to show the less productive Walker - who I don't think you have ever called shit. If I called Walker for what he was (and I was rarely as unimaginative is just saying he was "shit") you were lecturing me for being unable to see (what wasn't there mostly) his good points.

Delli Alli wasn't as wonderful and faultless in the first half as you/others say. And Lamela wasn't as catastrophically bad as you say.

I'll stand by what I said having watched it pretty much twice, as I don't think it was outrageous in any shape or form. Carroll was my MOTM, as though he didn't do anything spectacular, he was a constant influence was the closest to working Pochettino's strategy by pressing, tackling, passing, moving and passing progressively as anyone.

I singled out Son, Alli and Lamela for praise after that. IMO all did plenty of decent general things - standard team play moments - special things/moments but all also wasted situations with a bit of carelessness and/or didn't press hard enough at times (Alli particularly was worst of the three for this). And as I already offered, when it comes to Alli/Lamela whoscored even have Lamela scoring overall higher based solely on unemotional nonhuman bias, so whilst not vindicating my opinion because it's using some algorithms that don't include some facets we can measure with our human brains better, suggest it's not the obtuse one that you suggest.

 

[double0]

If only we could get away from destroying one's opinionated views to boost one's agenda for another player we'd all arrive in a paradise state of supporting what we all love Thfc.

With this current squad assembled and reported to be the youngest averaged age in the epl, I think judgement or proclaimed facts on our squad new recruit and younger players should be tempered. Ie Dier is no midfielder etc I've also read already (I think) N'jie is like Balottelli not impressed etc even cleverly worded criticism of Alli.

We should let this group develop and give a bit of slack.

 

[JimmyG2]

Watch it again if you can be arsed (http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/) Lamela was shit from start until around the sedond half when he improved to average and then the 80th minute when he played some good stuff. But in the first half he was really shit. lf.

I like you critical distinction between 'shit'
and 'really shit'.
A whole new critical analysis opens up.
Lloris............ Hardly ever shit
Walker...........Quite often shit these days
Elderweireld...Getting more shit by the game.
Rose.............Used to be shit but not as shit these days. Apart from Thursday
Vertonghen....Less shit than he was.
Mason..........Surprisingly unshitlike nowadays.
Bentaleb........Would be shit if he wasn't injured.(See also Eriksen, Dembele)
Dier...............Probably shit but playing out of position.
Lamela..........Has the consistency of diarrhea.
Chadli........... Big pile of shit .
Harry Kane.....Untouchable. Bit like shit.
Alli.................Shit but showing potential.
Son ..............Beginners luck but will revert to shit quite soon.

Shit I forgot Davies..He's shit too.
Luckiest pile of shit to get 5th.