Mateo Musacchio

[Bus-Conductor]

Verts started in 3 of those games and missed the other two because of injury, in fact I seem to recall he seemed to wimp off early in the away game at Liverpool when we were already down and Daws had to come on

Are we to assume that Verts is a liability because he played in those games too?

You can assume what you like but the post I responded to was talking about Dawson.

Personally I think allocating the credit for "team" clean sheets to one player is always spurious and was merely countering that point.

 

[Barry Mead]

You can assume what you like but the post I responded to was talking about Dawson.

Personally I think allocating the credit for "team" clean sheets to one player is always spurious and was merely countering that point.

But you appear by your comments to be quite happy to allocate the blame to one player when goals are conceded.

You could have made the point that other players were involved in those clean sheets rather than a player involved in the high score defeats

You make the point it is a team game and that was my point, Verts was involved in three of those five games and injured the other two, so were a lot of other players, so as you say it's hardly anymore relevant that you mentioned Dawson playing in those games as those we kept a clean sheet, hence my point about throwing Verts name in there. Simply to show others were involved

I'm merely trying to balance the negative

 

[Bus-Conductor]

But you appear by your comments to be quite happy to allocate the blame to one player when goals are conceded.

You could have made the point that other players were involved in those clean sheets rather than a player involved in the high score defeats

You make the point it is a team game and that was my point, Verts was involved in three of those five games and injured the other two, so were a lot of other players, so as you say it's hardly anymore relevant that you mentioned Dawson playing in those games as those we kept a clean sheet, hence my point about throwing Verts name in there. Simply to show others were involved

I'm merely trying to balance the negative

As I was merely balancing the positive. What you've done now is create another slight positive imbalance which again, needs a fine tune adjustment, so I better repeat, only Dawson was involved in all of our humiliating defeats, just to re-adress things.

There, now we're all good.

 

[Barry Mead]

As I was merely balancing the positive. What you've done now is create another slight positive imbalance which again, needs a fine tune adjustment, so I better repeat, only Dawson was involved in all of our humiliating defeats, just to re-adress things.

There, now we're all good.

But as you rightly say it's a team that should share the credit for a clean sheet and a team that should share the blame for any humiliating defeats

So we have the balance right Dawson gets no individual credit for the clean sheets or individual blame for the humiliating defeats which is fair enough

Understanding that we are, as you say, all good

 

[jimbo]

But it takes a team, or at least a back four, playing well in unison to keep a clean sheet yet an individual can easily make a mistake that leads to a goal.

 

[Barry Mead]

But it takes a team, or at least a back four, playing well in unison to keep a clean sheet yet an individual can easily make a mistake that leads to a goal.

That is true but we shouldn't blame a person for every goal conceded in a bad defeat unless that person was guilty in all the goals and that clearly is never the case and we shouldn't credit a player for individual blocks of tackles that stop clear cut goal chances in those clean sheets because it won't always be the same player.
Most goals are good work by the opposition or mistakes by someone leading up to the chance that carves the opening. Occasionally an individual will make a mistake that leaves a great chance for the striker but often it's a mistake further up the pitch that opens up the chance but a mistake is a mistake whether it's close to the goal or upfield. We had individual mistakes in a number of games we kept a clean sheet but either a forward didn't capitalise of someone put in a great tackle block or pulled off a great save
Is a great saving tackle to stop a goal and save a clean sheet any less relevant than a mistake that costs a goal? is a mistake that costs a goal any more a mistake than one that left just as good an opportunity but the striker failed or the keeper got his hand to it?
Is one defensive slip that cost a goal any more of a mistake than a striker making a slip and failing to score to level the game of put us in front.
It is a team game and often results are skewed because of mistakes some that counted, some that didn't

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Lets be honest vertonghen is just a much better footballer than Dawson.

 

[mw828]

But you appear by your comments to be quite happy to allocate the blame to one player when goals are conceded.

You could have made the point that other players were involved in those clean sheets rather than a player involved in the high score defeats

You make the point it is a team game and that was my point, Verts was involved in three of those five games and injured the other two, so were a lot of other players, so as you say it's hardly anymore relevant that you mentioned Dawson playing in those games as those we kept a clean sheet, hence my point about throwing Verts name in there. Simply to show others were involved

I'm merely trying to balance the negative

That seems logical though? If an individual error (which we know all about from last season) leads to a goal, it is quite simple to attribute it to the individual. It is hard to take a great performance and attribute it to one particular player not making errors.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Rose was most likely in those games.
Does it make Rose good?

I think Rose is an excellent left back, who like many players last year, had poor seasons under poor managers.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

I think Rose is an excellent left back, who like many players last year, had poor seasons under poor managers.

Most sensible thing I've read anyone say about him Tbh.

 

[Barry Mead]

That seems logical though? If an individual error (which we know all about from last season) leads to a goal, it is quite simple to attribute it to the individual. It is hard to take a great performance and attribute it to one particular player not making errors.

Not at all because a great performance isn't necessarily a great result, I've seen great games we have played and lost and poor games we've played and won

But in terms of goals logically there is no more blame for a player that costs you a goal for a mistake than a player who doesn't cost you a goal for a mistake and really a mistake is a mistake whether is costs you a goal or doesn't cost you a goal.

Of course if you can easily count a mistake that costs you a goal then you can surely just as easily count a mistake that didn't cost you a goal, the error can be much the same only the resulting score is different
Why pillory an individual who's mistake cost a goal because the striker puts the ball in the net and not criticise the individual who's mistake served up a golden opportunity but the striker missed
Logically the mistakes were the same no?

 

[YiddoInPoland]

I think Rose is an excellent left back, who like many players last year, had poor seasons under poor managers.

Some credit needs to Harry here, he did say he saw him as a fullback and he seems to be doing OK. goes to show what a bit of guidance can do for a player.

Back on topic, nothing seems to be moving on this one anymore, seems dead

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Most sensible thing I've read anyone say about him Tbh.

You can go through my posts, I've rated him all along. He was as good at Sunderland as Vertonghen was for us 2 years ago.

 

[Schitzophonic]

No Musacchio in tonight's squad. The plot thickens!

 

[AJW]

Th

No Musacchio in tonight's squad. The plot thickens!

Their twitter says he is being rested. Surprising but guess he didn't have the best pre season

 

[Jamturk]

No Musacchio in tonight's squad. The plot thickens!

SAY WHAT!!!!!

 

[ginola99]

Say whaaaaa!?!?!?! Surely he slipped in the urinals or is in talks with Chelsea......

 

[THFCSPURS19]

u wot m8

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

No Musacchio in tonight's squad. The plot thickens!

They're not playing are they?

Edit: 10pm

 

[Bus-Conductor]

But as you rightly say it's a team that should share the credit for a clean sheet and a team that should share the blame for any humiliating defeats

So we have the balance right Dawson gets no individual credit for the clean sheets or individual blame for the humiliating defeats which is fair enough

Understanding that we are, as you say, all good

Presumably you have pointed out to Strikeb4ck the error of his thesis that revolved around Dawson's part in our clean sheets as well ?