new Sevillaesque formation???

[lukespurs7]

A few sources suggest that Ramos is planning on changing to a formation he used with Sevilla which is something like a 4-5-1 with attacking players playing off a loan striker, with the full-backs bombing on to support. Think they had Kerzakov or Kanoute up top with Fabiano and one other playing off them with Adriano and Jesus Navas on the wings with Alves etc bombing on-worked well for them

Anyone who follows spansih football know exactly what that formation was, was it just a 4-5-1 or a 4-2-3-1 and what kind of roles did each player play, as i'm not 100% sure.

Also can anyone lay out a projection as to if this is the case what our team may look like. Below is my guess but if anyone has any ideas please share what you think we will line-up like next season.

-------------------------Gomes(if work permit)------------

-----------------King-------------Woodgate--------------
----Hutton---------------------------------------Bale-----

-----------------Modric-----------Zokora-----------------

---Lennon/bentley-----------------------------Dos Santos

--------------------Garcia??------------------------------

-------------------------Berbatov------------------------

Assuming rumours come true etc. So hope they don't and we keep Keane as surely if we did revert to this formation he's be perfect in the spot i put garcia in.

views?

 

[DoublePivot]

That system typically requires a double pivot. At that point Modric, dos Santos and whoever would be free in front of them with Berbatov as the target man. So who goes into the double pivot. We have neither a DM, nor a holder, and only Hudds could be a deep seated playmaker.

 

[lukespurs7]

whats a double pivot ?

 

[DoublePivot]

basically two defensive mids.

 

[SpurSince57]

Funny, I could have sworn Sevilla played a 4-4-2.

 

[RussellYid]

Funny, I could have sworn Sevilla played a 4-4-2.

Likewise. I thought Ramos was known for being a lover of 4-4-2 with out and out wingers. But what do I know?

 

[Bonjour]

Likewise. I thought Ramos was known for being a lover of 4-4-2 with out and out wingers. But what do I know?

Apparently, you know precisely what time it is dog. :up:

 

[Lilbaz]

To me that formation looks like 4-4-2:shrug: Is it me or are there too many people on here who play FM?

 

[Kyras]

That is a 4-4-2, or a 4-5-1, until the players are put in and how the manager deploys his players, but the two holders are very reminiscent of Ramos' Sevilla.

 

[MrWoolley]

I'm pretty sure Ramos played 4-4-2 at Sevilla

 

[Phil_2.0]

They didn't play 4-4-2. I watch a lot of spanish football and i don't think they ever had a rigid set formation. It was really more of a 4-2-3-1. Kanoute used to drop really deep into the midfield area kind of like Berbatov does now and Robbie Keane plays on the last man, with the wide players having the freedom to cut in and out with the full backs bombing on. This is exactly what hes trying to recreate here at spurs, i fully expect if we sign Garcia for him to play on this Left Attacking Midfield role and Bentley/Gio/Lennon on the right and Berbatov playing in behind like a number 10 with Keane on the last shoulder. Jenas and Luka holding in the middle.

I think there will be many different formations in the season, like there was when Ramos joined and more free flowing style of attacking where players can drop in and out of holes and no real set position when we have the ball but when we lose it we get back into the rigid two banks of four. I actually think its kind of archaic to have a set formation now and this is where many English managers suffer, you need to be able to interchange and switch around consistently like United have recently found.

 

[SpurSince57]

I agree. I suspect that Ramos thinks less of formations as such than the kind of attacking/defending blocks that Jol talked about when he was summarising during the WC. We may start with a notional 4-4-2, but that will change according to circumstances.

I wouldn't hold my breath about Garcia signing, though.

 

[PT]

Isn't there a quote from the end of the season, or beginning of the close-season, whichever we you want to look at it, when Ramos said he wouldn't know his formation until he had got his players in?

In other words, he is depending on getting a certain style of player but may have to compromise and therefore commit to playing a different style as a consequence.

 

[lukespurs7]

so Garcia may play on the left? It does seem if we want a fluid,flexible formation we do have the midfielders especially to do that i.e Modric can play CM CAM and LM, Dos Santos can play LM and CAM Jenas can play CM and RM Lennon or Bentley could easily play RM or LM. Keane and Berby can both play CAM or ST. There are few better attacking LB's than Bale and Hutton is also decent going forward.

 

[General Levy]

Wow look a LukeSpurs7 thread with --------

 

[SpurSince57]

so Garcia may play on the left? It does seem if we want a fluid,flexible formation we do have the midfielders especially to do that i.e Modric can play CM CAM and LM, Dos Santos can play LM and CAM Jenas can play CM and RM Lennon or Bentley could easily play RM or LM. Keane and Berby can both play CAM or ST. There are few better attacking LB's than Bale and Hutton is also decent going forward.

He may, but not for us.

 

[PantherX]

A few sources suggest that Ramos is planning on changing to a formation he used with Sevilla which is something like a 4-5-1 with attacking players playing off a loan striker.....

I don't understand. Why would we need somebody to loan us a striker?

Don't we have enough :duh: ?

 

[Kyras]

I don't understand. Why would we need somebody to loan us a striker?

Don't we have enough :duh: ?

:lol: picky

 

[epfou1]

Just for the record Ramos usually employed two different formations at Sevilla

4-4-2 was the most common used with the full backs encouraged to bomb forward and provided additional support to the two wingers.

4-4-1-1 was the other formation commonly used against the top 4 teams where there is a lone target man and an midfielder who would support the striker by playing in the hole.

 

[mil1lion]

Our formation wont be like Sevilla because we dont have Dani Alves (neither do Sevilla anymore mind.) Ramos had to play a certain way to accomodate players like Alves. He'll do the same for Spurs. He likes to play his best players, even if its in a different position to normal. Which is why he said he wont know the formation until he know who is here this season. Players like Giovani and Modric are very dynamic so they give us some great options. Ultimately, we'll have a base of a 4-4-2 but such is the complexity of a Ramos team, it will be a very dynamic formation.

So far we have a team that can play 4-4-2, 5-3-2 or 4-5-1 effectively and all three could be used throughout the season depending on whether we're at home or depending on opposition etc. Theres really no point putting together a formation and a first team because it will change constantly throughout the season. Its best to look at all the different player we have in the squad and what each player offers. The more options we have, the better it will suit Ramos. The goalkeeper is the only position that doesn't need to be looked at in that way.

How many left backs do we have and what do they offer? Gilberto - An attack minded left back that can plat left back, left midfield or centre midfield. He offers us plenty of experience and good delivery with his left foot Bale - Still young but very good going forward, has bags of energy (well suited if he plays as wing-back) and can easily play left midfield. Has great delivery and scores goals, aswell as being a free-kick specialist. Probably the closest we have to Alves in terms of attacking ability. Ekotto - Another young player who has yet to show us how good he is due to injuries. He, like the others, looks to be attack minded with a sweat left foot. He could be the surprise of the season. All are natural left footed players. Two can play as left midfielders (not wingers) and all could play as wingbacks. They are all good going forward.

Right Back? Hutton - Another attack minded full back who has shown some very impressive runs going forward. He's one of our best fullbacks as far as defending goes. He has shown that he can deliver a great cross too (away to Derby for Bents goal for example.) Guntar - Like Bale he is very young, very good going forward aswell. Has plenty of energy too and competent defending. Both could play as wing-backs and both are natural right footed players.

Centre backs? King - Very important at the back for us. He can also play defensive midfield but is best at centre back. Woodgate - Another important player with experience. Only plays centre back. Dawson - Still young but experienced enough now in the PL, can only play centre back. Not crucial to formations. A centre back is a centre back but with Kaboul, Rocha and Gardner likely to leave, we could use one more. Preferably someone that covers as a third right back aswell.

Left and Right Midfield - Giovani - Can play either flank just as effectively. On the left wing he uses his pace and trickery to beat his man. Still needs to improve his crossing in that area. On the right is effective at cutting in and scoring goals Henry style (but in a mirror image.) Behind the front men (almost a free role) he is at his best, can score and create plenty of goals when he's up for it. Lennon - At his best as an out and out right winger. Can play on the left (has improved on that side) but does narrow play on that side. The attacking left backs (as opposed to Lee or Chimbonda (when at left back, who is more defensive)) could helkp out there. Can also play the free role (as he did away to Chelsea in 06/07.) Malbranque - To me is better on the left than on the right. Likes to come infield from the left. Can play on the right without too much conviction at times (doesn't have the pace or trickery as a winger though) but at his best as an ACM (rarely been used there by us.) So all of whom can effectively play on either wing or behind the front man. Is 3 enough considering only 1 is a natural winger? (Bentley should add depth there.) We can effectively play with two wingers, a diamond midfield with 1 behind the strikers. Plus we can easily play 5 in midfield with all 3.

Central midfield? Zokora - More box to box, tackle the man on the ball type player. Doesn't have the discipline for DM nor the attacking ability as an ACM. Can play centre back or right back. Plays best alongside a defensive midfielder like Tainio. Effectively aimed towards a more defensive central midfield pairing. Modric - Looked great in deep central midfield for Croatia, with freedom to get forward (with protection of a defensive midfielder) and play more as an ACM. Played for Zagreb on the left, but with freedom to come infield like Messi (best suited with a defensive left back which we dont have.) Jenas - More box to box than anything. Great energy levels, can be the engine room and driving force in midfield but without the quality to deliver as Modric. Is our best goalscoring midfielder though. Can play right midfield but not as a winger. Huddlestone - Our most gifted defensive midfielder who is at his best when playing deep alongside a defensive midfielder. Covers at centre back too but doesn't drive forward much. Effectively we could play all four together in a diamond midfield. We can also play two defensive midfielders in Huddlestone and Zokora. We could play Huddlestone or Zokora behind both Modric and Jenas aswell in a 5 man midfield. Neither are (in my mind) best suited to that and both limit our options (as i dont see them as a natural DM) so a new DM is a must.

Strikers? Berbatov - at his best when allowed to drop off and link up play. Can play as the loan striker aswell. Keane - effectively a support striker but has become the more advanced striker when Berbatov plays. He can play on the left in a more attack minded sense (but the workrate to defend when needed.) Bent - our least dynamic but our most out and out striker. Has the pace and power to play alone up front. All could esily play together in a 4-3-3 but we would lack width (relying a great deal on the fullbacks) but can play Bent or Berbatov alone in a 4-5-1. The 4-4-2 is easy because they can all play together (unlike the Keane and Defoe question marks when together.) We have Giovani acting asa 4th choice too.

I've left out the players who are likel to leave, and some youngsters that may be fringe players.

So do we have enough options? Well as i say we only have 1 natural winger so another 1 or maybe 2 wide players. Centre backs aren't crucial in terms of formation but a new experienced centre back (El-Dunne) would be good. Also, no natural defensive midfielder who can cope in that role lone. I can only think that Huddlestone and Zokora could play that role together but not effectively with Jenas and Modric alongside them when alone in there. A new DM would open up some of the other formations like 4-5-1 with both Modric and Jenas aswell as 2 wingers, or a 4-3-3 with 1 defensive midfielder.

So effectively the midfield is the area that needs looking at in order to allow us to play the more dynamic formations. I think we could effectively play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 against any opponent. Thats all we have to chose from if we're to see the best performances so far. So we really need 2 or 3 midfielders. 1 or 2 wide players and 1 defensive midfielder. Maybe 1 attacking central midfielder and 1 wide player (De La Red maybe.) That would give us the dynamics to play the style that Ramos used at Sevilla as they had 2 wingers in Adriano and Navas. Plus a true defensive midfielder in Poulsen.