New Stadium Details And Discussions

[Bobbins]

I like the idea of the supporters spending all day at the NFL games in the USA. Perhaps Levy is hoping for us UK fans doing something similar for our home games. Thus increase revenue and slow down the exodus after the game.

To be fair I'd generally be happy to stay later after a game and spend some more money, or arrive earlier, if there was anything much to do nearby. Apart from midweek evening games I'm usually thinking about delaying to avoid the rush for the station but end up going on the whistle anyway as there's feck all to do around the stadium.

I'm really hoping there might be some nice places to sit down and eat in the stadium to have a meal after the match - not fast food. Not a Gaucho or anything smart, just a chain restaurant or four would be nice, like the O2.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Great, but I'm not sure this was Levy's main concern. I don't think tfl got a mention in the leaked email.
The Mayor has a separate regeneration fund, and perhaps the banks wanted some hard proof that the mayor is fully committed to providing funding. It is odd that Khan hasn't publicly responded. I don't think he has ever mentioned this regeneration since he was appointed.

My understanding from memories of reading the planning documents is that the refurbished WHL station is needed in order for the transport plan to be acceptable. It has to be done in order to get the increased crowds in and out safely.

If anyone wants to to check the transport plan, go ahead...

As for Khan, the whole thing was approved before he took over. If there's an issue that needs his intervention, then I expect he'll have his arm appropriately twisted. But he has more pressing matters than revisiting a signed-off scheme from his predecessor's time

 

[widmerpool]

What Populous say about Wembley: (http://populous.com/project/wembley-stadium/)

• Special acoustic studies were undertaken to allow the design team to finely tune the sound quality of the new stadium, maintaining the traditional ‘Wembley roar’

Hmm. That's not in keeping with my experience of Wembley. I wonder what specific metrics and guarantees support the assurances that the Populous people have given Levy about acoustics.

 

[kmk]

What Populous say about Wembley: (http://populous.com/project/wembley-stadium/)

• Special acoustic studies were undertaken to allow the design team to finely tune the sound quality of the new stadium, maintaining the traditional ‘Wembley roar’

Hmm. That's not in keeping with my experience of Wembley. I wonder what specific metrics and guarantees support the assurances that the Populous people have given Levy about acoustics.

There was a deafening roar coming from the Gent fans last week.

 

[Phischy]

What Populous say about Wembley: (http://populous.com/project/wembley-stadium/)

• Special acoustic studies were undertaken to allow the design team to finely tune the sound quality of the new stadium, maintaining the traditional ‘Wembley roar’

Hmm. That's not in keeping with my experience of Wembley. I wonder what specific metrics and guarantees support the assurances that the Populous people have given Levy about acoustics.

To be fair, didn't he bring in some independent sound types unrelated to Populous?

 

[whitesocks]

My understanding from memories of reading the planning documents is that the refurbished WHL station is needed in order for the transport plan to be acceptable. It has to be done in order to get the increased crowds in and out safely.

If anyone wants to to check the transport plan, go ahead...

As for Khan, the whole thing was approved before he took over. If there's an issue that needs his intervention, then I expect he'll have his arm appropriately twisted. But he has more pressing matters than revisiting a signed-off scheme from his predecessor's time

I'm sure your right about the station - I wasn't being sarcastic, although it reads that way.

If the Mayor's contribution to the scheme is signed off, then taking the leaked email as genuine..., what funding are the banks so keen to know is in place? I thought the banks were providing the funding!

 

[Lilbaz]

I'm sure your right about the station - I wasn't being sarcastic, although it reads that way.

If the Mayor's contribution to the scheme is signed off, then taking the leaked email as genuine..., what funding are the banks so keen to know is in place? I thought the banks were providing the funding!

The regeneration of other parts of tottenham will mean that the flats etc... we build will gain in value. We are probably borrowing on the back of that increased value.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

The regeneration of other parts of tottenham will mean that the flats etc... we build will gain in value. We are probably borrowing on the back of that increased value.

Wider market conditions permitting. Residential property in Britain, especially in London, is a bubble market. There are various reasons for this, including the upward dragging effect of oligarchs buying flats as money-laundering exercises and capital investments, the structural shortage of affordable housing and 30 years of bipartisan government policy, repeatedly stimulating false consumer booms on unsecured debt, on the basis that it will be "secured" on the ever-rising value of housing.

The result is a market that is highly sensitive to small changes in confidence, as we found in 2009. Presently we have large potential changes in confidence from the unknown terms of the EU exit and from the unpredictable behaviour of our supposedly "special" and newly-isolationist trade partner.

It wouldn't take much to trigger an exodus of [dodgy] capital from London. The knock-on effects of that are unknown.

"Borrowing on increased value" is called "hope value". It's a big no-no. Every set of proper guidelines for assessing lending for capital projects specifically forbids it. You do not provide capital funding based on what you assume is going to happen to values in the 3+ years it takes to complete a project. In the 90s and 00s, I did housing association schemes in regeneration zones, especially in Hackney - we knew perfectly well that the values would rise as we built the scheme, because of the local improvements and gentrification, but we could not incorporate that into our business plan, because we weren't permitted to allow for "hope value".

Private sector funding applicants get around it by massaging the projected sale figures, the estimated costs and the profitability. They submit bullshit business plans to bankers who are usually desperate to outdo each other and secure deals. Everyone in the private sector does it. My clients do it. I get very ratty with them. They nod their agreement sagely and ignore me. If they don't do it, someone else will do it and will secure the land and the project. A few of them actually believe their own bullshit.

It's a scam. The result is a perpetual bubble market: years of falsely-increasing values, followed by a crash.

Capitalism. It's a bitch.

 

[Wellspurs]

There was a deafening roar coming from the Gent fans last week.

And their number 19

 

[Pellshek]

What Populous say about Wembley: (http://populous.com/project/wembley-stadium/)

• Special acoustic studies were undertaken to allow the design team to finely tune the sound quality of the new stadium, maintaining the traditional ‘Wembley roar’

Hmm. That's not in keeping with my experience of Wembley. I wonder what specific metrics and guarantees support the assurances that the Populous people have given Levy about acoustics.

Worth remembering that NWHL is a generation later than Wembley and the Emirates, which themselves were something of a leap forward from the previous generation of UK stadia (Sunderland, Derby, Bolton, Boro etc). That's quite a lot of technological advancement, and quite a lot of lessons learned.

 

[widmerpool]

Worth remembering that NWHL is a generation later than Wembley and the Emirates, which themselves were something of a leap forward from the previous generation of UK stadia (Sunderland, Derby, Bolton, Boro etc). That's quite a lot of technological advancement, and quite a lot of lessons learned.

Generally speaking, though, lessons are learned and technology advances when something rides on the outcome. Does that apply to the way that crowd noise spreads through a stadium? Has that been a consistent client objective and have they held their contractors to account over it?

Not asking you personally for a definitive answer, of course!

 

[whitesocks]

..."Borrowing on increased value" is called "hope value". It's a big no-no. Every set of proper guidelines for assessing lending for capital projects specifically forbids it. You do not provide capital funding based on what you assume is going to happen to values in the 3+ years it takes to complete a project....

In which case even if Khan gave his cast iron assurance that he will honour the full £28m regeneration amount on time, then this is not something that would interest the banks as any regeneration enhanced valuation it is not allowed in the business plan anyway.
(Even though we all know that enhancement is essential for the project).

If the email leak is true, and it is more interesting to think that it is, then maybe the issue is more that Khan is demanding more affordable housing in the project. That would upset the business plan for sure.

 

[Wine Gum]

The basis of the Planning Consent cannot be rewritten arbitrarily by one side once issued. Khan couldn't say he now wants a higher affordable housing element.

 

[worcestersauce]

I am puzzled, what is it that Sadiq Khan has said and what is it that he is supposed to say, I think I have missed something.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Wembley stadium itself isn't really the cause of a lack of atmosphere.
For the 3 CL games I went to, the problem was clearly a combination of things:

1) We didn't play brilliantly and weren't in the league either. This was creating a negative feeling at times.

2) Seasoned fans that know where the WHL atmosphere is best were sat randomly around Wembley creating small, insignificant pockets of atmosphere.

3) There were a lot of fans there that aren't regular attendees and, as such, are less likely to get involved.

Everyone had to leave early or risk being trapped on wembley way!

 

[whitesocks]

I am puzzled, what is it that Sadiq Khan has said and what is it that he is supposed to say, I think I have missed something.

I'm still picking around the leaked email from Levy to the Mayor the other week.
I was not so sure that it was about the station upgrade as some suggested, but if the banks' concern cannot be over a planning issue or about the mayor's £28m regeneration funding, then I guess getting tfl to pull their finger out is it. Me bad.

Still odd that Haringey responded straight away to publicly reassure Levy that they were 100% committed to the project but Khan's office has been silent. Someone could have knocked up a meaningless PR statement in 5 mins.

 

[absolute bobbins]

I'm still picking around the leaked email from Levy to the Mayor the other week.
I was not so sure that it was about the station upgrade as some suggested, but if the banks' concern cannot be over a planning issue or about the mayor's £28m regeneration funding, then I guess getting tfl to pull their finger out is it. Me bad.

Still odd that Haringey responded straight away to publicly reassure Levy that they were 100% committed to the project but Khan's office has been silent. Someone could have knocked up a meaningless PR statement in 5 mins.

The mayors office are far too busy spinning about all of the manifesto commitments they're abandoning

 

[Wine Gum]

Top tier is growing higher and higher.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Wembley stadium itself isn't really the cause of a lack of atmosphere.
For the 3 CL games I went to, the problem was clearly a combination of things:

1) We didn't play brilliantly and weren't in the league either. This was creating a negative feeling at times.

2) Seasoned fans that know where the WHL atmosphere is best were sat randomly around Wembley creating small, insignificant pockets of atmosphere.

3) There were a lot of fans there that aren't regular attendees and, as such, are less likely to get involved.

Everyone had to leave early or risk being trapped on wembley way!

Those are all very valid reasons as to the lack of atmosphere but unless Tottenham seat supporters pretty much as they are currently situated at WHL we have little chance of a decent atmosphere at Wembley all next season

Add that to the fact that there will be 5k+ away supporters every week packed in to an area making a hell of a bloody racket

At best worrying in regards to our home form

At worst catastrophic

 

[nailsy]

Those are all very valid reasons as to the lack of atmosphere but unless Tottenham seat supporters pretty much as they are currently situated at WHL we have little chance of a decent atmosphere at Wembley all next season

Add that to the fact that there will be 5k+ away supporters every week packed in to an area making a hell of a bloody racket

At best worrying in regards to our home form

At worst catastrophic

I'm sure the club are aware of this issue, even Glenn Hoddle was going on about it on TV the other night, but can they force fans to sit in a particular seat at Wembley? I assume they have to give everyone a choice of where they sit. Hopefully they'll advise everyone that we'll generate the best atmosphere if everyone stays in their current group.