Next Manager Watch

[RuskyM]

I find all this Poch talk sad.
Firstly, for Conte who is clearly not well and has had a dreadful year personally. Whether, Conte was the right choice is neither here or there. He should have been backed by Levy and he clearly has not been. He deserves another year.

Agree that I'm sympathetic to Conte's year, but we've been talking about this contract expiry for months - many thought it was a bargaining position for transfers. He had a window where he got another few players, one at great expense. He's still not signed up. We can have faith in him, but does he have faith in us?

Secondly, why do we want Poch back. Yes he gave us some good years where we punched above our weight. But he delivered nothing as far as trophies are concerned. He failed to win the league when Leicester won it ( I always saw it that we lost it and not Leicester winning it, although the poor referring of Leicester’s penalty area grabbing and pulling along with their time wasting did not help, along with the media love in) and the failure to pick a team to play against Liverpool in the Champs League final. Have all the Poch lovers forgotten the dire last 18 months of his tenure?

We weren't top of the table at any point, so unsure how we could lose it, and we never should've been in a CL final in the first place. Criticising him for not winning the league or the European Cup where we look at where we've been before and since should show how impressive competing was.

We also haven't been any better since the difficult last year. We've been, for my money, a damn sight worse for all but the few months of last season.

Thirdly, what has Poch done to show that he can deliver the trophies and titles we all desire? And I mean trophies and title, not a league cup. Yes he has gone off to PSG and won a league and a cup or two, but many so called lesser mangers could have achieved that or better, but he was sacked from that job as he was from Spurs.

He's come a fair sight closer to it than the succession of "winners" we've had ever since.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Can’t believe people want to sell Davies! He’s exactly the kind of reliable squad member great teams always have !! Can play back 3 or 4, never complains, never lets you down

I don’t think anyone really wants him sold, but we want him upgraded significantly. He’s perfectly fine as a squad player and has always been solid as one. We’re not winning anything with him in the first team though.

 

[danielneeds]

Pros and cons to Tuchel.

Let's ignore the Chelsea links for a moment.

PROS

- Very intelligent guy and very good with tactics.
- His team is possession based and he likes them to have the ball.
- When he gets things right, his team are very strong and capable of rolling teams over consistently.
- Quiet dynamic and doesn't just use one strategy.

CONS
- His teams tend to have spells where they struggle for goals or look a bit blunt. At Chelsea, I don't know if that was cause Werner, Lukaku were totally ineffective and he needed more dynamic forwards though.
- He is quite confrontational, he doesn't hold back his feelings. Whether that is with the board or players or even staff.
- His teams are also capable of having 'collapses' in games. In his time at Chelsea, they got thrashed by Brentford, Arsenal and WBA at home because they got picked off on the counter-attack. This is because they are so possession heavy that if they struggle to break teams down, then they are more vulnerable off the ball.
-

You could make a case for this with all coaches to be honest, that he needed more time. And I do think Tuchel didn't get the time to really restructure that team, Lukaku was clearly dumped on him and not his kind of player. Their bluntness was not really altered in his time there due to lack of attacking signings.

Which would be a major problem for us, as we know Levy doesn't always give coaches their immediate needs in the market.

The biggest con is that Chelsea managers get used to having the best and being at a club that wants to win. Then coming here they are never gonna be happy. It’s like being someone who gets used to flying business and first class and then being made to fly economy. You’re never gonna be satisfied because you’ve had a taste of something more.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

Sorry but forget titles for as long as Levy is here. We've literally had 2 of the most successful managers since and it got us no further. Poch is perfect for us because we have to punch above our weight. If we get a takeover and spend like the top teams and sign proven top players it's different. However if we do that we might as well keep Conte and give him a big summer of signings anyway. We just have no choice but to accept that we won't be challenging at the top until we oust Levy already. Until that happens it's more about enjoying football again.

I get what you’re saying but I cannot accept that Poch will help us now. We have and are spending money. The same as the other top six clubs it’s just that Levy/ Poch chose expensive players that didn’t fit the prem or have the right aptitude/desire. Poch could not get a tune out of them. If it’s not Conte Poch is not the answer.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

Agree that I'm sympathetic to Conte's year, but we've been talking about this contract expiry for months - many thought it was a bargaining position for transfers. He had a window where he got another few players, one at great expense. He's still not signed up. We can have faith in him, but does he have faith in us?

We weren't top of the table at any point, so unsure how we could lose it, and we never should've been in a CL final in the first place. Criticising him for not winning the league or the European Cup where we look at where we've been before and since should show how impressive competing was.

We also haven't been any better since the difficult last year. We've been, for my money, a damn sight worse for all but the few months of last season.


He's come a fair sight closer to it than the succession of "winners" we've had ever since.

I think your answer in full supports my point that it should not be Poch.?

 

[HedgieSpur]

Whats interesting to me is that theres been a lot of talk about Tuchel but very little, except for the odd mention, about Luis Enrique. He certainly hasn't been talked about in any great detail at least. Maybe thats because deep down we all know its probably going to be Poch so its almost not worth convincing oneself any other manager would be ideal for the role. But, just taking a step back, Enrique would surely be up there as one of the more obviously established candidates, along with (regardless of my thoughts on him) Tuchel probably as you mention. The only other one would potentially be Nagelsmann who could well be available come the end of the season.

The way i see it is there are three groups of options

Nostalgic - Poch

Established - Tuchel, Enrique and potentially Nagelsmann come end of season

Up and coming - Gallardo, Schmidt, Amorim, kompany, Slot etc

Thing is, there are actually some excellent options in there that aren't Poch. I just hope we take the time to actually think who would be best suited to taking our team forward.

Personally I’d be happy with any of Tuchel, Nagelsmann, Enrique, Gallardo or Amorim.

 

[Trippier the RB fantastic]

If Conte as expected leaves in the summer it will be nteresting to see if we will seek a manager who continues with 3412 / 343 as our squad recruitment has been set up to play this way ( Porro / Udogie ).

Tuchel has certainly used this formation and although Poch was primarily a 433 / 4231 man he did use 3412 under his tenure here.

 

[mil1lion]

I get what you’re saying but I cannot accept that Poch will help us now. We have and are spending money. The same as the other top six clubs it’s just that Levy/ Poch chose expensive players that didn’t fit the prem or have the right aptitude/desire. Poch could not get a tune out of them. If it’s not Conte Poch is not the answer.

Well I wouldn't say the same as the others, we still spend below the top clubs. I do agree that Poch was not great on recruitment but we have Paratici now. Poch did great improving a number of players but just needs someone signing them. I think he's a better fit for what we do than Conte even though I wish we could change our ways and be a better fit for a winner like Conte. I think Poch would come in and work great with our younger players again and we have plenty of those. It's key however that we retain Paratici or another in charge of transfers.

 

[rossdapep]

If Conte as expected leaves in the summer it will be nteresting to see if we will seek a manager who continues with 3412 / 343 as our squad recruitment has been set up to play this way ( Porro / Udogie ).

Tuchel has certainly used this formation and although Poch was primarily a 433 / 4231 man he did use 3412 under his tenure here.

I always felt Poch's system was 4-2-3-1 defensively and 3-4-3 offensively.

Dier dropped in and FBs bombed on.

When we lost Dembele and Walker, we lost that ability to switch and become dominant offensively.

which i believe is why we looked more vulnerable in transition and less effective offensively (not able to apply as much pressure)

 

[Timberwolf]

I agree, but there's also a big difference between coming in as a caretaker after a manager has been sacked and stepping in for a manager who's ill.

Is there, though? I mean at very beginning, sure, but at the end of the day you're still appointing a caretaker manager the job regardless of the circumstances surrounding the previous manager.

If Conte doesn't return from Italy then I think I can certainly see value in appointing Stellini until the end of the season due to the circumstances. But offering him the job permanently beyond that is no different from the examples of other failed caretaker-turned-managers IMO.

 

[Sandro30]

My understanding is that Levy is comfortable for Poch to be part of the shortlist but he doesn't want him to be no1 on that list. For all the talk of their personal relationship, Levy doesn't want to go back ideally.

 

[Tucker]

My understanding is that Levy is comfortable for Poch to be part of the shortlist but he doesn't want him to be no1 on that list. For all the talk of their personal relationship, Levy doesn't want to go back ideally.

Based on what? you sound like this is ITK you’re passing on. Have you spoken to @Archibald&Crooks regarding this? As that would be the wise choice.

Sorry if that sound a little brisk. Not meaning to.

 

[Sandro30]

Based on what? you sound like this is ITK you’re passing on. Have you spoken to @Archibald&Crooks regarding this? As that would be the wise choice.

Sorry if that sound a little brisk. Not meaning to.

I know how the system works, don't worry buddy.

 

[Albertbarich]

Based on what? you sound like this is ITK you’re passing on. Have you spoken to @Archibald&Crooks regarding this? As that would be the wise choice.

Sorry if that sound a little brisk. Not meaning to.

Look at you coming at it like he is a Tory in the politics thread...?

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

I'm not sure, I get the feeling that Conte and his coaching team are pretty much one and the same.
I would've thought that Stellini's loyalty will lie with Conte but then, maybe he has aspirations of becoming a manager himself, so who knows.

I do think he's pretty safe hands for a caretaker role for the moment and I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

He'd only have to be slightly more pragmatic than Conte to make a huge difference IMO. Even an improvement in in-game management would be powerful, and surely Conte can't stymie that?

 

[DiVaio]

I find all this Poch talk sad.
Firstly, for Conte who is clearly not well and has had a dreadful year personally. Whether, Conte was the right choice is neither here or there. He should have been backed by Levy and he clearly has not been. He deserves another year.
Secondly, why do we want Poch back. Yes he gave us some good years where we punched above our weight. But he delivered nothing as far as trophies are concerned. He failed to win the league when Leicester won it ( I always saw it that we lost it and not Leicester winning it, although the poor referring of Leicester’s penalty area grabbing and pulling along with their time wasting did not help, along with the media love in) and the failure to pick a team to play against Liverpool in the Champs League final. Have all the Poch lovers forgotten the dire last 18 months of his tenure?
Thirdly, what has Poch done to show that he can deliver the trophies and titles we all desire? And I mean trophies and title, not a league cup. Yes he has gone off to PSG and won a league and a cup or two, but many so called lesser mangers could have achieved that or better, but he was sacked from that job as he was from Spurs.
I loved Poch till the last 18 months but he has shown nothing since he has left to show me that he will be able to deliver what we want.
For the sake of Spurs we must look elsewhere.

You forgot to mention that the dire last 18 months also includes 9 months of pretty good football when we were 3rd in the league with only 5 points off City(+1 game more played) and Liverpool after 26 games. And then the really dire 9 months after Burnley game still includes getting us to CL Final.
"Failure to pick a team to play against LFC in final" is just a pure hindsight.

 

[C0YS]

You forgot to mention that the dire last 18 months also includes 9 months of pretty good football when we were 3rd in the league with only 5 points off City(+1 game more played) and Liverpool after 26 games. And then the really dire 9 months after Burnley game still includes getting us to CL Final.
"Failure to pick a team to play against LFC in final" is just a pure hindsight.

And that poor form also was in part driven from an injury crisis, Kane was out and we even played Danny Rose at CM at some points. Worth noting after Sissoko got injured we were playing Wanyama and Dele in CM during the Man city away leg in the CL.

Having said that when problems continued the following season it was clear it was more than just injury issues, and arguably those injuries were not unconnected to Pochs training methods.

 

[Japhet]

I get what you’re saying but I cannot accept that Poch will help us now. We have and are spending money. The same as the other top six clubs it’s just that Levy/ Poch chose expensive players that didn’t fit the prem or have the right aptitude/desire. Poch could not get a tune out of them. If it’s not Conte Poch is not the answer.

That's why a lot of people are stipulating that Poch would have to accept working with Paratici (or whoever).

 

[H-SF]

Interesting thought - where would we be right now if we appointed Fonseca in 2021? He’s doing quite a good job at Lille

 

[Scot-Spur]

WLB liked my post about liking Amorim which I posted a while back. Probably means nothing but you know.