codspur
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- Jul 14, 2008
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Yes Cos my full name is F@*king Underwhelming and its been used 478 times in this thread
Next Manager Watch
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Dunc2610
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- Aug 7, 2008
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Ange.....is that you?
sidford
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- Oct 20, 2003
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Postecoglou would be a fine fit for Spurs – and Celtic should wish him well
Celtic will surely complete a domestic treble on Saturday but questions over the manager’s future mean it now promises to be a strange occasion
www.theguardian.com
Ewan is a Celtic fan
Danny1
Well-Known Member
- Dec 6, 2006
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Tottenham (permanent) managers of the last 20 years reads like this:
2004-2004 - Santini - failure.
2004-2007 - Jol - success.
2007-2008 - Ramos - failure.
2008-2012 - Redknapp - success.
2012-2013 - AVB - failure.
2014-2019 - Poch - success.
2019-2021 - Mourinho - failure.
2021-2021 - Nuno - failure.
2021-2023 - Conte - failure.
So in the last 20 years I would class 3 of our managers as a success. All 3 of them has similarities in that they:
- larger than life characters.
- had that ability to be friends aswell as the boss.
- progressed the club forwards.
Also, none of those 3 came with a big pedigree or history of winning multiple trophies. We are a funny club here at Spurs and what we need more than anything right now, is a manager who can come in, bridge the gap between the pitch and the fans and help us all enjoy our football and ultimately fall back in love with the club.
Is Ange the man to do that, only one way to know, but does he have similarities to our past 3 successes, absolutely he does.
2004-2004 - Santini - failure.
2004-2007 - Jol - success.
2007-2008 - Ramos - failure.
2008-2012 - Redknapp - success.
2012-2013 - AVB - failure.
2014-2019 - Poch - success.
2019-2021 - Mourinho - failure.
2021-2021 - Nuno - failure.
2021-2023 - Conte - failure.
So in the last 20 years I would class 3 of our managers as a success. All 3 of them has similarities in that they:
- larger than life characters.
- had that ability to be friends aswell as the boss.
- progressed the club forwards.
Also, none of those 3 came with a big pedigree or history of winning multiple trophies. We are a funny club here at Spurs and what we need more than anything right now, is a manager who can come in, bridge the gap between the pitch and the fans and help us all enjoy our football and ultimately fall back in love with the club.
Is Ange the man to do that, only one way to know, but does he have similarities to our past 3 successes, absolutely he does.
Riandor
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- May 26, 2004
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Big Ange seems to have a good philosophy etc... but whilst I do not want to bring up the Celtic thing (I can't speak to his time in other leagues), the one aspect that does give me pause for thought is that Celtic have outspent everyone and achieved what they should as a result. Better than at other times, sure.
They haven't at any point however punched above their weight (europe being a good barometer). I would expect Celtic to be able to play attractive football in their own league, but it says more about the level of competition than it does anything else.
At Spurs he won't outspend the current top 6 and we will likely be fighting around that level. What Poch did and Conte before he imploded, was punch above and get us to 4th or better. Kane was a big reason, but he possibly won't be around to to that. Now others in the division have shown that you can punch above your spend (like Howe or de Zerbi), but logic usually dictates that that only gets you so far. We punched above and then refused to make the necessary spend to stay there or go higher.
Newcastle may well find the same issue, Howe has them 3rd, but the jump to Champions requires a degree of outlay. Leicester was the exception (due to many top clubs needing a revamp, something we too profited from to a lesser extent).
So do I think Ange would be a good appointment? Yes and no.
Yes, because I think he is a likeable guy and will likely give us the positive football we want to see.
No, because this says more about Levy to me. Levy is clearly risk adverse in the light of "large" compensation. He/in conjunctgion with the board clearly don't believe enough in their judgement to pay and change what would be required to get the top of their list appointments and Ange as a result (through little fault of his own), feels like an option C that ticks "enough" boxes. Affordable, positive football, likeable.
The whole point to a Conte-like appointment was to change that, to be a big club. Act decisive and with pupose with everyone knowing how to achieve the next step and be prepared to spend accordingly. We continue to fail at that. We are indecisive and behind on every decision. Buying players the squad needs 1-2 transfer windows too late when the manager is already 1 foot out of the door. Always too reactive and end up wasting just as much money as if we had paid for actual quality when we actually needed to do so.
They haven't at any point however punched above their weight (europe being a good barometer). I would expect Celtic to be able to play attractive football in their own league, but it says more about the level of competition than it does anything else.
At Spurs he won't outspend the current top 6 and we will likely be fighting around that level. What Poch did and Conte before he imploded, was punch above and get us to 4th or better. Kane was a big reason, but he possibly won't be around to to that. Now others in the division have shown that you can punch above your spend (like Howe or de Zerbi), but logic usually dictates that that only gets you so far. We punched above and then refused to make the necessary spend to stay there or go higher.
Newcastle may well find the same issue, Howe has them 3rd, but the jump to Champions requires a degree of outlay. Leicester was the exception (due to many top clubs needing a revamp, something we too profited from to a lesser extent).
So do I think Ange would be a good appointment? Yes and no.
Yes, because I think he is a likeable guy and will likely give us the positive football we want to see.
No, because this says more about Levy to me. Levy is clearly risk adverse in the light of "large" compensation. He/in conjunctgion with the board clearly don't believe enough in their judgement to pay and change what would be required to get the top of their list appointments and Ange as a result (through little fault of his own), feels like an option C that ticks "enough" boxes. Affordable, positive football, likeable.
The whole point to a Conte-like appointment was to change that, to be a big club. Act decisive and with pupose with everyone knowing how to achieve the next step and be prepared to spend accordingly. We continue to fail at that. We are indecisive and behind on every decision. Buying players the squad needs 1-2 transfer windows too late when the manager is already 1 foot out of the door. Always too reactive and end up wasting just as much money as if we had paid for actual quality when we actually needed to do so.
Bobbins
SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
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Him and his brother - did you see the recent video where it turns out Gary has never heard of a holiday?
beats1
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Youre right, we didn't look good and it was going downhill but he would have done better than Stellini and Mason
His replacement would have got us in to the top 4
We have been in relegation form since Conte left. Won 3 Drawn 2 Lost 5. 11 points out of 30
I wouldn’t say Poch was a larger than life character.
Agree with your 2nd point
fishhhandaricecake
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- Nov 15, 2018
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Fantastic post
Also shows why there is so much frustration as usually Levy got it wrong but then got it right the next time whereas recently we moved away from what was working and the club made 3 bad fit appointments in a row.
Id reword ‘larger than life character’ to ‘warm and likeable character’ and I’d add in ‘played an attacking exciting style of football’
As you say no guarantee of success with any Manager but Big Ange ticks the boxes that our other PL managers have who have been an overall success.
Fingers crossed.
Agree on that. i think he would have still gotten a tune out of a few games where we dropped points especially late int he game. with that said, i would think we would be in Europa had he stayed, but my crystal ball hasn't proven to be all that accurate over the years.Youre right, we didn't look good and it was going downhill but he would have done better than Stellini and Mason
His replacement would have got us in to the top 4
We have been in relegation form since Conte left. Won 3 Drawn 2 Lost 5. 11 points out of 30
theShiznit
Well-Known Member
- Jul 26, 2004
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Any player at the club that wouldn't see a new coach with attacking ideas and new methods as anything other that a breath of fresh air that could breath new life into them and us and get fully behind them would have to be pretty dumb.
Especially after they've (well some of them) gone through some dour "top" coaches (with a brief respite in Nuno
) that have insulted, belittled and worn down any confidence they had at every turn.
If Ange can make the players enjoy the game again then that's half the battle, and the fans would soon follow suit.
Especially after they've (well some of them) gone through some dour "top" coaches (with a brief respite in Nuno
) that have insulted, belittled and worn down any confidence they had at every turn.If Ange can make the players enjoy the game again then that's half the battle, and the fans would soon follow suit.
fishhhandaricecake
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2018
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Someone on here is probably ‘mates’ with him thenPostecoglou would be a fine fit for Spurs – and Celtic should wish him well
Celtic will surely complete a domestic treble on Saturday but questions over the manager’s future mean it now promises to be a strange occasion
Ewan is a Celtic fan
sidford
Well-Known Member
- Oct 20, 2003
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As a complete aside over here (Ireland) there are a lot of lads whose 2nd team or even 1st team would be Celtic. That I know is strange for English lads to understand but over here though it's very normal for someone to support a premier League team and also have a strong affinity for Celtic.Someone on here is probably ‘mates’ with him then
GetSpurredOn
Well-Known Member
- Jun 18, 2006
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So, I’ve taken some more time to reflect on where we are at. Finally caught up with the comments in here, and here’s where I am at currently.
On the assumption Ange does get the gig, is he my first choice, no, infact he’s probably not even 2nd, 3rd or 4th. However, I can see that he ticks a number of boxes. We need someone at the helm who is not only tactically flexible, but also has affable people skills to re-engage both playing pool and the fan base. You can only play what is infront of you, and he has won with Celtic, yes they are head and shoulders above anything else in that league, but equally they are not particularly loaded with genuine class to make an assault on Europe. He comes across as a guy that can build players up, get them performing consistently rather than playing within themselves all the time.
Yes, Nagelsmann would cave been my No1 choice, tactically seems to fit the bill, and his work at Hoffenheim and RBL looks like what we need. He would have been sufficiently motivated by his exit from Bayern, but really not damaged goods since he actually hadn’t failed. The breakdown for me would have been would Levy give him the relevant support, that is always going to be the risk. At RBL he had a conveyor belt of talent handed to him because of how they are run. At Bayern they buy the best of the competition, like a supercharged Celtic in the SPL. I think he would have been too demanding for Levy, and we would have seen the same old pattern, get some good results, turn the ship a bit, ask for a better level of replacement, but get poundland alternatives. I think if Levy had the same vision and commitment to the football side, Nagelsmann would have been the man to catapult us upwards, but Levy isn’t ever going to take that path.
Slot, a sensible No2 option. Tactically smart, good people skills, yet probably less demanding than JN in terms of players. But expensive to buy out, and to dare is too dear.
Poch’s redemption would have been the romantic choice, but you don’t often see a divorced couple get back together and realise the world is rosier as they’ve both learnt and changed.
Luis Enrique would have been a semi safe pair of hands, big name manager, achieved, but been out of the club game for a few years, so not necessarily coming in with his stock so high he’ll be over demanding.
Gallardo would have been the left field bolter. Good pedigree in South America, and as a club we have had some decent imports from Argentina haven’t we. Always felt like a Hail Mary, could be great, could be not. But seems like it would have been exciting.
Postecoglou seems like the best of the rest. Doesn’t seem quite as glamorous as those listed above. But maybe that’s what we need right now. The serial winners path hasn’t worked. The big name ex players hasn’t worked. I remember when it was De Boer or Poch, I was all in on FDB, he just seemed a no brainer. Great ex player, played for some glamorous clubs. Dutch, so must obviously be a technician. Just led Ajax to a type. Poch seemed underwhelming, semi decent career, international but not a serial winner, got southampton to a plucky level. But looking back, he was the low key galvanising presence we needed to get the foundations right. And whilst yes I would have preferred a Ragnick and Nagelsmann combo, there is something about Ange that makes me think he deserves a chance to show he can be the Jol/Poch influence, steady the ship, and make us proud to support Spurs again, enjoy the experience. During the Poch era, a lot of my non Spurs mates saw us a their second team, because they liked the way we played, the energy and intensity. A team of young players on the way up, working for eachother. No bought in big egos.
Postecoglou strikes me as someone who will not demand 3-4 specific tier 1 players at £50-60m each. More 5-6 players he feels he can take tier 2 and mould quickly into tier 1. If he takes that approach, and we see young players coming through, not overpriced journeymen, then gets then actually looking to go at teams, stress their defences and make them work rather than sit in for 80+ minutes of back foot football inviting pressure and hoping to capitalise on a breakaway, I’m fully onboard.
I’d just like to see something done and finalise soon, manager and DoF (assuming we still want one), so we can finally draw a line under this last season, as whilst we remain managerless, it feels like it’s still ongoing.
On the assumption Ange does get the gig, is he my first choice, no, infact he’s probably not even 2nd, 3rd or 4th. However, I can see that he ticks a number of boxes. We need someone at the helm who is not only tactically flexible, but also has affable people skills to re-engage both playing pool and the fan base. You can only play what is infront of you, and he has won with Celtic, yes they are head and shoulders above anything else in that league, but equally they are not particularly loaded with genuine class to make an assault on Europe. He comes across as a guy that can build players up, get them performing consistently rather than playing within themselves all the time.
Yes, Nagelsmann would cave been my No1 choice, tactically seems to fit the bill, and his work at Hoffenheim and RBL looks like what we need. He would have been sufficiently motivated by his exit from Bayern, but really not damaged goods since he actually hadn’t failed. The breakdown for me would have been would Levy give him the relevant support, that is always going to be the risk. At RBL he had a conveyor belt of talent handed to him because of how they are run. At Bayern they buy the best of the competition, like a supercharged Celtic in the SPL. I think he would have been too demanding for Levy, and we would have seen the same old pattern, get some good results, turn the ship a bit, ask for a better level of replacement, but get poundland alternatives. I think if Levy had the same vision and commitment to the football side, Nagelsmann would have been the man to catapult us upwards, but Levy isn’t ever going to take that path.
Slot, a sensible No2 option. Tactically smart, good people skills, yet probably less demanding than JN in terms of players. But expensive to buy out, and to dare is too dear.
Poch’s redemption would have been the romantic choice, but you don’t often see a divorced couple get back together and realise the world is rosier as they’ve both learnt and changed.
Luis Enrique would have been a semi safe pair of hands, big name manager, achieved, but been out of the club game for a few years, so not necessarily coming in with his stock so high he’ll be over demanding.
Gallardo would have been the left field bolter. Good pedigree in South America, and as a club we have had some decent imports from Argentina haven’t we. Always felt like a Hail Mary, could be great, could be not. But seems like it would have been exciting.
Postecoglou seems like the best of the rest. Doesn’t seem quite as glamorous as those listed above. But maybe that’s what we need right now. The serial winners path hasn’t worked. The big name ex players hasn’t worked. I remember when it was De Boer or Poch, I was all in on FDB, he just seemed a no brainer. Great ex player, played for some glamorous clubs. Dutch, so must obviously be a technician. Just led Ajax to a type. Poch seemed underwhelming, semi decent career, international but not a serial winner, got southampton to a plucky level. But looking back, he was the low key galvanising presence we needed to get the foundations right. And whilst yes I would have preferred a Ragnick and Nagelsmann combo, there is something about Ange that makes me think he deserves a chance to show he can be the Jol/Poch influence, steady the ship, and make us proud to support Spurs again, enjoy the experience. During the Poch era, a lot of my non Spurs mates saw us a their second team, because they liked the way we played, the energy and intensity. A team of young players on the way up, working for eachother. No bought in big egos.
Postecoglou strikes me as someone who will not demand 3-4 specific tier 1 players at £50-60m each. More 5-6 players he feels he can take tier 2 and mould quickly into tier 1. If he takes that approach, and we see young players coming through, not overpriced journeymen, then gets then actually looking to go at teams, stress their defences and make them work rather than sit in for 80+ minutes of back foot football inviting pressure and hoping to capitalise on a breakaway, I’m fully onboard.
I’d just like to see something done and finalise soon, manager and DoF (assuming we still want one), so we can finally draw a line under this last season, as whilst we remain managerless, it feels like it’s still ongoing.
He really doesnt though. The level of experience Jol, Redknapp & Poch all had quite easily surpass that of Ange. They were adept at punching above their weight as well, which in the admittedly very few opportunities to do similar at Celtic, he has failed.Fantastic post
Also shows why there is so much frustration as usually Levy got it wrong but then got it right the next time whereas recently we moved away from what was working and the club made 3 bad fit appointments in a row.
Id reword ‘larger than life character’ to ‘warm and likeable character’ and I’d add in ‘played an attacking exciting style of football’
As you say no guarantee of success with any Manager but Big Ange ticks the boxes that our other PL managers have who have been an overall success.
Fingers crossed.
Tactically, yeah, the approach seems to be very entertaining & attacking & fits what we want. But it is also unflinching & he doesnt exactly seem to either have or even want a plan b to take into games that require something a bit more grounded. Everything people praise about his approach & also the whole passing backwards thing makes me laugh knowing they will all be ripping it apart in a few months calling it tactically naïve.
fishhhandaricecake
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2018
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To expand on/simplify this:
2004-2004 - Santini - boring personality, boring football = failure
2004-2007 - Jol - warm and likeable personality, attacking free flowing football = success
2007-2008 - Ramos - boring personality (albeit partly due to language barrier), boring football, bad results = cup win but failure in the league and overall given the length of tenure
2008-2012 - Redknapp - likeable personality, attacking free flowing football = success
2012-2013 - AVB - okish personality but hardly hugely galvanising, boring football = did okish
2014-2019 - Poch - warm and likeable personality, attacking free flowing football = success
2019-2021 - Mourinho - not likeable personality, boring football = failure
2021-2021 - Nuno - not likeable personality, boring football = failure
2021-2023 - Conte - not likeable personality, boring football = failure
The correlation and conditions for a Manager to be 'success' at Tottenham is pretty clear.
This is why I thought Slot would be perfect and its why I think Big Ange could be a very good option.
This right here is part of the problem. We have actually become the Harry Kane team. If he isn’t signing a new deal then it shouldn’t matter what he thinks and it shouldn’t play any part in hiring someone who will (hopefully, we all know about Levy’s trigger finger) be here after he has gone.
fishhhandaricecake
Well-Known Member
- Nov 15, 2018
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He has a perfectly good amount of experience and none of Jol, Redknapp and Poch particularly had a plan B either.
People just love to moan and find problems and negatives.
The pro's far outweigh the cons here, he'd be a great fit.
IfiHadTheWings
Well-Known Member
- Aug 5, 2013
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I know, he's my matePostecoglou would be a fine fit for Spurs – and Celtic should wish him well
Celtic will surely complete a domestic treble on Saturday but questions over the manager’s future mean it now promises to be a strange occasion
Ewan is a Celtic fan
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